Is it possible to assemble a ring around gilly?

[juvilado]

Hi, i was wondering if the game could allow an hypotethical ring assembled with structural pylons or something like that, that completely surounded a celestial body...

[Dafni]

Interesting question. I wonder what happens when one builds a structure that exceeds the physics simulation bubble. Maybe some of the people who build huge bridges and roads etc will know.

[Zeiss Ikon]

I think the fellow who built a monorail that ran from KSP to the island runway is likely to know this answer...

[Reactordrone]

Just the number of parts needed to build something over 80km long would probably kill it.

[qzgy]

6 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

I think the fellow who built a monorail that ran from KSP to the island runway is likely to know this answer...

Stratenblitz? IDK, cause the monorail was one straight part. I'm not sure if it would be possible to make a ring. Someone should use tweak scale to find out.

[Reusables]

Let's suppose that it's possible, and one built a ring around Gilly.

Then the CoM of the craft should be very close to the center of Gilly. As far as I know, KSP gravity is always proportional to the inverse square of the distance between CoM and planetary center. Thus gravitation will get mad immediately after the build.

This means that the game should be broken in a minute.

Contradiction 

[juvilado]

Is this a challenge meat? 

Or definitely impossible? 

[Draalo]

13 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

I think the fellow who built a monorail that ran from KSP to the island runway is likely to know this answer...

He stated that he had to use BDAmory to extend physics range in that video.

[Ohm is Futile]

13 hours ago, Abastro said:

Let's suppose that it's possible, and one built a ring around Gilly.

Then the CoM of the craft should be very close to the center of Gilly. As far as I know, KSP gravity is always proportional to the inverse square of the distance between CoM and planetary center. Thus gravitation will get mad immediately after the build.

This means that the game should be broken in a minute.

Contradiction 

I doubt it will "get mad". The problem is that the shifting in CoM as it gets built may cause the gravity to change directions depending on the mass of the structure. It's also probably fairly unpredictable since Gilly doesn't have a regular shape. That would likely 'cause the Kraken to awaken.

That said, as others have pointed out, I doubt you can even get there. The "physics' bubble" would need to be significantly larger than it currently is. Like, a lot larger. Plus, as far as I can tell you can't even use the Klaw to firmly plant your structure on Gilly.

It's a technical nightmare, no matter how you look at it.

[OHara]

13 hours ago, Abastro said:

As far as I know, KSP gravity is always proportional to the inverse square of the distance between CoM and planetary center

I thought KSP simulated gravity for each individual part of a craft.  

That would make it easier to understand the fuel-pumping exploit, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/36949-fuel-transfer-exploits/ and the way orbits are not quite stable when running the full physics simulation http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/138506-orbital-decay/

We could try a pendulum satellite and see if it responds to the tidal forces, though probably someone has done that already.

 

 

[Draalo]

2 hours ago, OHara said:

We could try a pendulum satellite and see if it responds to the tidal forces, though probably someone has done that already.

Scott Manley did that long ago

 

Worked fine. Just 2 Orange tanks and he raised a circular LKO from 100km to 250km.

Was just a proof-of-concept video.

[Ultimate Steve]

C=~3.14*D.

C=~3.14*26000

C=~81640

Longest part in the game = Kickback booster (I think).

Kickback booster =  ~15m

Parts = Distance/Part length

Parts = 81640/15

Parts = ~5443

That's assuming that your structure is perfectly circular with no docking ports (Spoiler: It won't be perfectly circular with straight segments). Also, that's Gilly's radius from Sea level (I think). Highest point on Gilly is 6400m, more like 5000 on equator (estimated). So, your structure will theoretically be around 8,000 parts minimum, over 9000 if you do it legitimately (using docking).

Perfectly doable based on part count. I got bored once and made a colony ship that was over 5000 parts. With optimization, lowered settings, an Alienware computer, and lots of patience, this is perfectly doable.

I'm curious to see what the game does with gravity, though.

Plus, when you time warp it locks rotation. That would get weird.

 

[Zeiss Ikon]

Like other elements of planets and moons, I would expect gravity to be "on rails" -- that is, it'll emanate from a fixed point, and even if you added enough parts to make a non-trivial addition to the total mass of the Gilly-and-ring system, the gravity won't change either magnitude or point of origin.  I don't know why you'd want or need to claw anything to Gilly, however -- it's got gravity (albeit not much), so claws aren't needed to keep the ring in contact.  There is enough flex in parts that imperfections in the ring will even out -- and plain solid support pillars will take up considerable variation in ground height (your pillars will need to be close to the correct height, but won't need to be perfect).

Now, whether BD Armory can extend the physics calculation distance enough to allow the ring to "fly", may not be relevant, either.  As a "vessel" or "debris", as long as persistence is turned on in settings, it should stay where you put it, and the only trouble you might get into would be if you move the piece you're building onto enough that flex can't take up the strain before the connections go out of physics range.

[GluttonyReaper]

1 hour ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Plus, when you time warp it locks rotation. That would get weird.

It doesn't just lock rotation - it puts the craft on rails. While normally KSP does simulate gravity on each part individually, while in warp it treats the whole craft as one, using the CoM for reference... I think. At which point, you might start getting weirdness, because the craft would probably have the velocity for orbit above the surface... but not for near the center of the planet, where the CoM is.

So... prolly best to avoid warp entirely in this situation

[Reusables]

4 hours ago, OHara said:

I thought KSP simulated gravity for each individual part of a craft.  

That would make it easier to understand the fuel-pumping exploit, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/36949-fuel-transfer-exploits/ and the way orbits are not quite stable when running the full physics simulation http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/138506-orbital-decay/

We could try a pendulum satellite and see if it responds to the tidal forces, though probably someone has done that already.

That's more right. 

The fuel-pumping could be explained with the root part being the reference point of the craft, but gravity should be applied to the individual part for the ground rover simulation to work right.

Besides I don't think tidal force will affect the orbit, when the rotation of the parent body is neglected with the gravity calculation.

EDIT: ^ as Gluttony said, what I said happens while warping/not in focus!

Edited May 29, 2017 by Reusables

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the Kraken would blow it up very quickly after it was assembled.

Providing two connection paths between to points amounts to casting Awaken Kracken and a ring inherently provides two connection paths.