5thHorseman

[1.3.x] KSP Caveman Evolved Challenge

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Posted (edited)

KSP Caveman Evolved Challenge 1.3.x

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is not intended to be a replacement of the Caveman challenge nor is it in any way "better than" it. This is merely different, and perhaps a way to extend the Caveman Challenge, continuing to play your Caveman save even after you have completed that first batch of tech tree nodes. It is also intended to be a fun way to get some QOL improvements yet still feel happily hampered by the "Caveman Style," tossing yourself into the great unknown without all the benefits you're used to - at least at first.

 

Facilities upgrades are welcome, but you can only perform one upgrade for every world landed on.

You can also only perform one upgrade for every PLANET returned from.

There are 18 upgrades, 14 landable worlds*, and 5 returnable planets*, so the first world you land on DOES NOT COUNT.

The goal: Upgrade your entire space center.

*Landable worlds do not include Kerbin or Jool, as you're already on Kerbin and Jool is Jool. They also do not count as returnable planets

 

Rules:

Either full stock career mode, or modded any way you want.
If you use any mods, you must disclose them. If they alter gameplay, that will be reflected in your Participant ranking.
No cheat menus or any other shenanigans
You must land on 2 unique worlds before buying any building upgrades.
When you land on your 2nd world, you may purchase a single building upgrade.
After that, you may purchase a single upgrade for every unique world landed on.
You may purchase a single upgrade for every unique planet returned from, even if that was the first world landed on.

There are two valid ways to return from a world:
1) Bring a part of a ship that was on the surface of the planet back to Kerbin and recover it.
2) Bring a Kerbal who was in a ship that was on the surface of the planet back to Kerbin and recover him or her.

We all know you can fake proof, so none is needed per se. But video, picture, and stories are recommended and welcome!
(And no, I won't put you on the winner list with NO proof)

Participants (In order of progress, or time posted on a tie)
 #  Name Flags  Progress  Notes
1 Jetski SC 18/18 Caveman, Jool 5 - WINNER!
2 ManEatingApe  SC 13/18 Jool 5 - To Do: Moho, Eve SOI.
3 5thHorseman M 11/18 To Do: Eve, Jool SOI
4 Physics Student M 9/18 To Do: Dres, Jool SOI, and Eeloo.
5 jonny MC 9/18 Munless Night - To Do: Eve SOI, Jool SOI, Kerbin SOI.
6 Tattiebogle MH 8/18 Kerbin SOI, Duna SOI, Gilly, Eve Landing, Moho Landing, Dres Landing done. 
7 IncongruousGoat  C 5/18 Caveman - Kerbin SOI, Duna SOI, Gilly done.
8 Numerlor SC 1/18 Caveman - Kerbin SOI done.
9  GoSlash27 S 1/18 Kerbin SOI done.

(Flags: M: Modded to change gameplay | S: Stock - no mods at all | H: Hard Difficulty | C: Combined with another challenge | A: Abandoned | More coming soon(tm) )
(If you notice any errors in the table, please tell me! Editing HTML Tables on the forum is... challenging. To say the least.)

The Original KSP Caveman Challenge that GoSlash27 began and the KSP Caveman Challenge 1.1 are excellent resources, and before you do this, I recommend you start your career out in the current KSP Caveman Challenge 1.2 (Soon to be 1.3 I expect)

 

Edited by 5thHorseman
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Posted (edited)

Here's a start on Normal difficulty, still on first day.  Just made it into Kerbin orbit, next stop Mun and Minmus for my first upgrade!

album

 

Edited by Jetski
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Posted (edited)

I have video footage of everything up to landing on Mun. I can but have not landed on Minmus because I want to complete my current Mun Explore contract (which involves RETURNING from Mun) to unlock a Minmus Explore contract, or at least open new contracts because once accepted, you're stuck with your current Explore contract, seemingly forever :/

I have not posted the footage yet, as I need to edit it and whatnot.

Oh I'm mostly doing Normal difficulty, with a few things turned up like lost Kerbals don't respawn and I have to pay to unlock individual parts. I installed All Y'All which would probably not fly in the default Caveman challenge, but I just refuse to right click a dozen science parts a dozen times each mission. :P

Edited by 5thHorseman

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Interesting challenge @5thHorseman might give it a try!

So just checking that I understand the rules correctly, in the following scenario the upgrades would work like:

  1. Land on Mun (no upgrade for 1st body)
  2. Return from Mun (no upgrade as not a planet)
  3. Land on Minimus (hurray - upgrade right away, even before returning to Kerbin)
  4. Return from Minimus (no upgrade as not a planet)
  5. Land on Duna (yay - another upgrade)
  6. Return from Duna (congrats - another upgrade)
  7. ...and so on
4 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I installed All Y'All which would probably not fly in the default Caveman challenge, but I just refuse to right click a dozen science parts a dozen times each mission. :P

It can get a little tedious! FWIW sometime in the last few game updates the ability to run science experiments as a custom action group was added. The science container is also available so with 2 keystrokes you can run and collect all science. Still have to wait until level 3 VAB though... :/

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Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, ManEatingApe said:

@5thHorseman 

  1. Land on Mun (no upgrade for 1st body)
  2. Return from Mun (no upgrade as not a planet)
  3. Land on Minimus (hurray - upgrade right away, even before returning to Kerbin)
  4. Return from Minimus (no upgrade as not a planet)
  5. Land on Duna (yay - another upgrade)
  6. Return from Duna (congrats - another upgrade)
  7. ...and so on

Your scenario is exactly correct. Also (though I don't suggest it) correct is: 

Land on Duna as your first action. No upgrade.

Return as your second. Get an upgrade for it.

Land on Minmus as the second landed world, get an upgrade.

Etc...

Edited by 5thHorseman

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Excellent, got it!

That 1st interplanetary mission is going to be entertainingly tricky :) 

Although I'm formulating a cunning plan to make progression easier...

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OK, basic Caveman completed, I've returned from Mun and Minmus.  Now it truly begins! I chose a launchpad upgrade of course as my first, I figure I can get enough stuff into space and dock it to handle anything that requires more that 30 parts. 

To be clear a Duna return mission is actually 2 upgrades?  One for landing and one for return?  I though it was just one.  I'm thinking Ike will be kind of a bonus, as anything that can land on Duna can easily do Ike as well with a little extra fuel.  In theory, a nice Duna/Ike mission could net me 3 upgrades, which will be a huge bonus for my space program, and likely necessary to move ahead with the rest of the system.  By the way, this is challenging enough on Normal, I'll be super impressed with anyone doing it on Hard in stock with no reverts.

 

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7 minutes ago, Jetski said:

To be clear a Duna return mission is actually 2 upgrades?  One for landing and one for return?

This is absolutely correct. A Duna-Ike return mission would get you 3 upgrades, which with no patched conics you'll have earned!

2 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

Excellent, got it!

That 1st interplanetary mission is going to be entertainingly tricky :) 

 

That's what I like the most about this challenge :)

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Success!  After a 3-launch assembly project, the good ship Dunatic burned out of Kerbin SOI.  Lack of patched conics meant I spent many orbits trying to get a Duna intercept (f5 + f9 seemed cheesy), so after 11 years Jeb and Bob finally made it into orbit.  I did a quick landing on Ike, and used the upgrade for the Astronaut Complex to allow EVA science.  I couldn't resist planting a few flags after all that work.  Next, with limited fuel remaining, Dunatic landed on Duna using Sparks and chutes, then safely lifted back into orbit.  Not they wait in low Duna orbit to see if they can make it home, or if a rescue will be needed.

 

 

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The Duna mission safely returned, turns out I had just enough fuel and RCS to get back to Kerbin and get into a holding orbit.  I sent up some chutes and a heat shield, and Jeb and Bill landed safely. This upgrade went to the Tech Center, and the juicy 3000 science from the mission pushed my programs along quite a bit. 

Still battling with no manouver nodes and a 30 part count limit, it was time to send a probe to land on Gilly and Eve.  A nice little LV-N powered rocket made it to Gilly no problem, but the Eve landing was a bust.  Using only a service bay instead of heat shielding and a too-steep entry profile and my Eve probe was cooked up in the atmosphere.  Still, Gilly was a success and finally bought the VAB upgrade to allow a decent number of parts.

 

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Posted (edited)

Some more successful missions today.  Sent Val to Moho, still with the 140T launch pad limitation and no manouver nodes (Mission Control still not upgraded).  Sent her fuel up separately, filled up and burned.  Got a clean intercept, and landed safely on Moho.  I upgraded Mission Control, nice to have manouver nodes and more than 2 contracts at once.  Got her home safe as well (barely) and used the second upgrade for Tech Center, which is now maxed.

Also sent another probe to Eve (it shouldn't be this hard, right?) and this time didn't burn up.  Landed and sent up some good data, allowing my launch pad to be upgraded to unlimited weight.  Also a station contract for LKO, solar, and Duna in 1 launch gave me some cash.

I've decided to be a bit ambitious now, and see if I can do all the outer planets with a single launch.  The aptly named ship "Outer Planets" now waits in LKO for a Jool window.  If I pull it off, I'll have completed this challenge, basic Caveman, and a Jool5 all in one go.  At only 242K and 50 tons before adding boosters, I suspect I'm a bit underbuilt, but we shall see...

 

Edited by Jetski
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Posted (edited)

On an unrelated note, @5thHorseman can this be part of the badge when you get around to making one?

9ywxb09.jpg

Edited by Jetski

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Jetski said:

If I pull it off, I'll have completed this challenge, basic Caveman, and a Jool5 all in one go. 

Wait have you returned from Eve? And I don't remember mention of Moho?

(I haven't looked at your album yet so maybe it's in there)

1 hour ago, Jetski said:

On an unrelated note, @5thHorseman can this be part of the badge when you get around to making one?

9ywxb09.jpg

That's pretty awesome, though maybe could the first one be the Caveman Challenge Captain Caveman silhouette?

Or no, that may be odd. Maybe add a middle one for that? :D

Edited by 5thHorseman

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2 hours ago, Jetski said:

Sent Val to Moho, still with the 140T launch pad limitation and no manouver nodes (Mission Control still not upgraded).  Sent her fuel up separately, filled up and burned.  Got a clean intercept, and landed safely on Moho.   I upgraded Mission Control, nice to have manouver nodes and more than 2 contracts at once.  Got her home safe as well (barely) and used the second upgrade for Tech Center, which is now maxed.

Aha. I missed this part :) However, I still don't see mention of returning from Eve, and noticed you also don't explicitly mention Dres or Eeloo. Just reminding in case you forgot them :)

 

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Haven't returned from Eve yet.  As it stands, Mun (no points), Minmus, Duna, Duna return, Ike, GIlly, Eve, Moho, Moho return give me 8 upgrades.  Launch x2, Tech center x2, Astronaut Complex, Tracking Center, VAB, and Mission control puts me pretty much at a point where I'm not feeling restricted.  Hopefully the good ship "Outer Planets" will cover the Jool 5 plus Eeloo/Dres, but we will see :) Then the Eve return.

 

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Posted (edited)

Now that I have my 1.3.0 basic caveman finished, I'll have to give this a try.

 I really don't like the idea of going to Duna without patched conics, so I'll wimp out and visit Mun/ Minmus before proceeding.

Silly question: Do the landings have to be manned? The rules aren't clear on that.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited by GoSlash27

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3 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Now that I have my 1.3.0 basic caveman finished, I'll have to give this a try.

 I really don't like the idea of going to Duna without patched conics, so I'll wimp out and visit Mun/ Minmus before proceeding.

Silly question: Do the landings have to be manned? The rules aren't clear on that.

Best,
-Slashy

They do not need to be manned, though if someone does it all manned I'll happily note that.

And welcome! It's nice to have the OC(aveman) taking a stab at this :)

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Still sorting out how to attack this.

 Clearly, my first interplanetary trip must be manned because the antennas needed for probes are R&D level 2. I plan on upgrading my tracking station with my Mun/ Minmus "scooby snack". Finally, I don't send kerbals on one- way trips, so my first target is either Ike or Gilly. I'll have to double- check the math, but I believe Gilly is the easier of the two.

 So Mission: We must commit ourselves before the year is out of sending a kerbal to Gilly and returning him safely to Kerbin...

Best,
-Slashy

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, GoSlash27 said:

Still sorting out how to attack this.

 Clearly, my first interplanetary trip must be manned because the antennas needed for probes are R&D level 2. I plan on upgrading my tracking station with my Mun/ Minmus "scooby snack". Finally, I don't send kerbals on one- way trips, so my first target is either Ike or Gilly. I'll have to double- check the math, but I believe Gilly is the easier of the two.

 So Mission: We must commit ourselves before the year is out of sending a kerbal to Gilly and returning him safely to Kerbin...

Best,
-Slashy

I am planning my first two interplanetary probes to be Duna and Laythe landers, so no real comms needed. I could even try to nail Duna from the ejection burn but with no maneuver nodes (patched comics only) that may be rough.

I WAS thinking of doing the same with Eve but based on prior posts, I think that may be a bit overzealous :)

Edited by 5thHorseman

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Successfully landed on Laythe and Tylo, still a fair amount of dV if I can get back into orbit and collect the main ship.  First Laythe landing attempt did not go well, had to reload.  Better second time around.  Still struggling with Tylo, I messed up several of the flybys and ended up with a lot more inclination than I would like. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Here's the first part of my attempt. Interestingly science and funds are not an issue so far. The "World's First" awards provide plentiful cash and I feel that most of the planets can be visited using low-tech chemical engines (except Eve of course!)

To begin with I created a fresh "Moderate" career and started a minimal Caveman using just 3 missions (details here) to unlock most of the nodes. The bulk of the science points came from a Minimus rover on the 3rd mission.

 

The 4th mission was more interesting; a manned Mun return mission with Caveman restrictions.

A4gS9HO.png

This was something I've never attempted before, as normally by the time you've unlocked the necessary nodes you've already nearly finished the Caveman. However before venturing further afield I really wanted to upgrade a building.

Valentina successfully made it there and back again, allowing me to upgrade the Launch Pad to Level 2 and assemble this monstrosity:

3lDHNgW.png

Despite the crude appearance it has 7,000 m/s dV in LKO. I budgeted:

  • 1000 m/s for Kerbin -> Duna transfer
  • 2,500 m/s for futzing around with orbits due to lack of maneuver nodes
  • 3,500 m/s for Duna ascent, Duna -> Ike transfer and return journey

By virtue of spending far too much time playing KSP I happen to know the 1st Duna transfer window time and velocity by heart, so even without patched conics the initial intercept attempt orbit was reasonably close.

5P0mNaU.png

Some years and 1,900 m/s later,  many carefully timed prograde, radially and normal burns resulted in a intercept!g3nrAqx.png

The rest of the mission was straightforward from that point. First landed on Duna and upgraded the Tracking Station to unlock patched conics.

mHh2znh.png

Next using our fancy new conics, landed on Ike and upgraded the Mission Control to provide maneuver nodes

sYLho0Q.png

Finally returned to Kerbin and upgrade the VAB to level 2. Full Album here:

To summarise, after 5 missions the building situation is:

  • Launch Pad Level 2
  • Tracking Station Level 2
  • Mission Control Level 2
  • VAB Level 2

My current plan for the next stage of the challenge is to send concurrent missions to Dres and Eeloo (these planets are very similar so the exact same craft design should suffice) then unlock:

  • Astronaut Complex Level 2
  • Launch Pad Level 3
  • Research and Development Levels 2 and 3

This will leave things in a good position to visit the Joolian system and the trickier inner system planets.

Edited by ManEatingApe
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On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 6:05 PM, 5thHorseman said:

KSP Caveman Evolved Challenge 1.3.x

IMPORTANT NOTE: This is not intended to be a replacement of the Caveman challenge nor is it in any way "better than" it. This is merely different, and perhaps a way to extend the Caveman Challenge, continuing to play your Caveman save even after you have completed that first batch of tech tree nodes. It is also intended to be a fun way to get some QOL improvements yet still feel happily hampered by the "Caveman Style," tossing yourself into the great unknown without all the benefits you're used to - at least at first.

 

Facilities upgrades are welcome, but you can only perform one upgrade for every world landed on.

You can also only perform one upgrade for every PLANET returned from.

There are 18 upgrades, 14 landable worlds*, and 5 returnable planets*, so the first world you land on DOES NOT COUNT.

The goal: Upgrade your entire space center.

*Landable worlds do not include Kerbin or Jool, as you're already on Kerbin and Jool is Jool. They also do not count as returnable planets

 

Rules:

Stock career mode
If you use any mods, you must disclose them. If they alter gameplay, that will be reflected in your Participant ranking.
No cheat menus or any other shenanigans
You must land on 2 unique worlds before buying any building upgrades.
When you land on your 2nd world, you may purchase a single building upgrade.
After that, you may purchase a single upgrade for every unique world landed on.
You may purchase a single upgrade for every unique planet returned from, even if that was the first world landed on.

We all know you can fake proof, so none is needed per se. But video, picture, and stories are recommended and welcome!
(And no, I won't put you on the winner list with NO proof)

 

Participants (In order of progress, or time posted on a tie):

NAME PROGRESS CURRENT STATUS
1) Jetski 8/18 (stock) Kerbin SOI, Ike, Duna, Gilly, and Moho done. Eve landed on.
2) 5thHorseman 0/18 (mods) Landed on Mun, trying to return to complete a contract. Video Proof Coming Soon(TM)
     
     
     
     
     

 

The Original KSP Caveman Challenge that GoSlash27 began and the KSP Caveman Challenge 1.1 are excellent resources, and before you do this, I recommend you start your career out in the current KSP Caveman Challenge 1.2 (Soon to be 1.3 I expect)

 

Do you get a badge if you complete the challenge?

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2 hours ago, The Moose In Your House said:

Do you get a badge if you complete the challenge?

If someone makes one :D

 

23 hours ago, ManEatingApe said:

To summarise, after 5 missions the building situation is:

  • Launch Pad Level 2
  • Tracking Station Level 2
  • Mission Control Level 2
  • VAB Level 2

My current plan for the next stage of the challenge is to send concurrent missions to Dres and Eeloo (these planets are very similar so the exact same craft design should suffice) then unlock:

  • Astronaut Complex Level 2
  • Launch Pad Level 3
  • Research and Development Levels 2 and 3

This will leave things in a good position to visit the Joolian system and the trickier inner system planets.

Very well done so far! I'll update the first post shortly!

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On 6/5/2017 at 3:23 PM, Jetski said:

Successfully landed on Laythe and Tylo...

Sorry for missing this earlier. I've updated the first post with all 3 of our progresses.

I may end up uploading a video with no voice commentary because it's so hard to find a quiet time to do that part.

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Posted (edited)

Well count me in, I'll continue in my save from Caveman 1.2. but one small question, does the craft need to return as it was launched or can it be brought down by some kind of shuttle
This brought me from burn out so I hope I won't stop playing for 1month again during this
 F@$# Mun

Edited by Numerlor
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