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Squad- Please "Chop this wood"


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KSP has come a long way, the gameplay is fantastic at its core however there are some very simple things(In theory) that should be done, it's been asked before but I'm here to ask again. 

Squad, please implement some of the essential mods into KSP. The work is being done by unpaid, passionate modders to lift your game into the future. You squad, have done nothing to push this game into the future. 

The current stock KSP has a serious lack of parts to be imagined, the visuals look like N64 mario and the stock game gets very boring once you understand what you're doing. Because of this it forces users to rely on mods for the game, a lot of which are so genius that its a wonder why you squad didn't think of it or at least implement them into your game to make it less likely that the bulk of us have to keep mod searching and reinstalling our games because too many mods broke the save. 

 

Now I'm not going to make a huge list of mods that in my opinion should be implemented, however a few notable mods that I think we all agree on are as follows, I'll let the community fill in the blanks after that. 

1. KAS/KIS - I don't need to explain why these two mods are incredible and should be stock

2. Distant object/planet shine/ scatterer/ EVE- These mods combined bring KSP into current standards of visuals and makes the eye candy alone addicting 

3. parts packs like KW, SpaceY, KSPI, Atomics, Near future- These packs make the interest in the game indefinite and the possibilities insurmountable. 

 

Just by integrating the above into the stock game you would have cemented KSP into the future and lightened the load on all of our CPU's making the game smoother, more enjoyable and less likely to crash and burn. I apologize if some of my words are direct, it's just mind blowing that this is a clear path to success and it seems that language packs are more of a priority for you. I won't be buying any DLC you release unless it does some of the latter. 

Edited by Jengaleng
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1 hour ago, Jengaleng said:

the essential mods

That's a problem right there.  Your list of "essentials" is going to be completely different from mine.  (Out of the ones listed, I've only ever used one of them.)  Everyone is going to have their own list. 

 

2 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

You squad, have done nothing to push this game into the future.

Good point!  What has Squad ever done for us?!?

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What if SQUAD is already doing what you've demanded? Would you recognize it?

  • 1.3 added an ambient light setting, something mods have done, and integrated the Asteroid Day mod
  • 1.2 added CommNet, something formerly done by a mod
  • (1.1 was a rewrite of the whole game for Unity 5, and a short break from incorporating mods)
  • 1.0 overhauled the aerodynamics and added re-entry heating, procedural fairings, and ISRU, all formerly things done by mods
  • 0.90 incorporated the Fine Print mod
  • 0.25 incorporated the Spaceplane Plus mod and Enhanced Navball

They can only add one thing at a time, and they seemingly have been.

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4 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

You squad, have done nothing to push this game into the future.

Going to have to disagree with you on this one. Squad has made tons of improvements and addons to the game over the year I have had it and the 6 years it has been in development.

4 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

The current stock KSP has a serious lack of parts to be imagined, the visuals look like N64 mario and the stock game gets very boring once you understand what you're doing. Because of this it forces users to rely on mods for the game, a lot of which are so genius that its a wonder why you squad didn't think of it or at least implement them into your game to make it less likely that the bulk of us have to keep mod searching and reinstalling our games because too many mods broke the save.

I disagree. While I do personally play with some mods, there are tons of people who are able to stay pure stock and have a ton of fun with it (https://www.twitch.tv/ej_sa)

4 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

Now I'm not going to make a huge list of mods that in my opinion should be implemented, however a few notable mods that I think we all agree on are as follows, I'll let the community fill in the blanks after that. 

1. KAS/KIS - I don't need to explain why these two mods are incredible and should be stock

2. Distant object/planet shine/ scatterer/ EVE- These mods combined bring KSP into current standards of visuals and makes the eye candy alone addicting 

3. parts packs like KW, SpaceY, KSPI, Atomics, Near future- These packs make the interest in the game indefinite and the possibilities insurmountable

1. I wouldn't be mad if this was stock tbh.

2. Nope! This would murder anyone with a low end computer (@me) and don't say that people could just turn them off because due to the way KSP is built, even if you disable clouds, the high def textures would still be loaded and would take up a ton of RAM.

3. Maybe, Maybe, No, Maybe, Parts of it. I feel like adding all of KW or SpaceY makes a lot of redundant parts. I'd rather Squad do a balance pass and add only a few more engines (also, we're already getting 5m parts in the DLC). In regards to KSPI-E, I feel like it's way too complicated to be added to stock. Nertea's mods, while great, still brush up on that 'too complex for stock'. I'd be happy with NF Constuction, Solar, and parts of Spaceships, but I'm not sure if I'd want all of the craziness that comes with adding Atomics, and NF Engines and Electricity. 

4 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

Just by integrating the above into the stock game you would have cemented KSP into the future and lightened the load on all of our CPU's making the game smoother, more enjoyable and less likely to crash and burn

While yes this would lighten the CPU load for people already using those mods, it would increase it for everyone else and I'd guess that more people play without those mods then do (for a case study, KIS has had about 2/3 of a million total downloads over its lifetime (including when people download it multiple times) and KSP has over 2 million copies purchased).

4 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

I apologize if some of my words are direct, it's just mind blowing that this is a clear path to success and it seems that language packs are more of a priority for you.

How many games do you play that are 100% in a foreign language? Making KSP open to other languages is a massive achievement that will bring in tons of non-english speakers which will provide money for Squad to continue improving the stock game.

4 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

I won't be buying any DLC you release unless it does some of the latter. 

The DLC that is currently being developed will add tons of stuff that other mods have already done (historical parts, Kerbal EVA parachutes, texture switching) and that's just what's already been announced (there's definitely more to come).

Thanks for reading and if anything I said seems like a personal criticism I apologize.

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2 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

2. Nope! This would murder anyone with a low end computer (@me) and don't say that people could just turn them off because due to the way KSP is built, even if you disable clouds, the high def textures would still be loaded and would take up a ton of RAM.

What makes you think they can't change that functionality?  They could still make it so the textures don't load when it is turned off.

Anyway, I love it when requests like this are titled "A Simple Request" or some variant.  It's as if adding all this stuff can be done in an hour or so.

Edited by Alshain
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7 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

The current stock KSP has a serious lack of parts to be imagined

Try going back to version 1.0.0 (The one I recently updated from). Look at what we have now. Inflatable heat shields. A new Mk1 cockpit. New drills and ISRUs. New probe cores and communication dishes. Version 1.0.0 was the 'lack of parts' version.

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10 hours ago, TheRagingIrishman said:

2. Nope! This would murder anyone with a low end computer (@me) and don't say that people could just turn them off because due to the way KSP is built, even if you disable clouds, the high def textures would still be loaded and would take up a ton of RAM.

Graphic.   Settings.

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"A simple request"

<sighs> here we go again...

16 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

 

1. KAS/KIS - I don't need to explain why these two mods are incredible and should be stock

2. Distant object/planet shine/ scatterer/ EVE- These mods combined bring KSP into current standards of visuals and makes the eye candy alone addicting 

3. parts packs like KW, SpaceY, KSPI, Atomics, Near future- These packs make the interest in the game indefinite and the possibilities insurmountable. 

1. Nope.

2. Maybe, but would slow down and cause crashes for people on older computers.

3. Nope. 

16 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

a few notable mods that I think we all agree on

Did you ask anyone?

I personally don't think any of these should be implemented, and would waste valuable development time.

16 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

lightened the load on all of our CPU's making the game smoother

Umm... what? So adding several mods, including one which adds clouds and increases the load on CPUs exponentially, is going to lighten the load on our CPUs? This only makes sense if every single person who plays KSP has all these mods installed, which as you might have guessed from the replies to this thread, is not even close to the truth.

Quote

it's just mind blowing that this is a clear path to success

This seems like a clear path to success for you. If this was implemented, it would cause more controversy and anger than localisation did.

(sorry if these seem like personal attacks, I'm just criticising the subject, and apologise for any offence caused)

Edit: I just realised I wrote a near identical reply to @TheRagingIrishman's. Ninja'd, I guess?

Edited by MiffedStarfish
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2 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

Settings.  Graphics.

The way KSP works currently (and it would take a ton of work from Squad to change this due to Unity) is that all textures and models are loaded into the game regardless of settings which means that even if you turned the clouds off, the massive files that make up good cloud mods will still be loaded into RAM causing problems for people with not good computers

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As much as I agree with you, I have to say no for the simple fact that KSP is special for it's lack of stock content. It's special as it lets anyone who plays to whatever they want with it :)

One note to adding Scatterer though... it technically would be against copyright to include it into the stock game as it's using bits of code from other programs to run the ocean shaders. There's probably similar reasons for not including other such visual mods.

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21 hours ago, Jengaleng said:

1. KAS/KIS - I don't need to explain why these two mods are incredible and should be stock

2. Distant object/planet shine/ scatterer/ EVE- These mods combined bring KSP into current standards of visuals and makes the eye candy alone addicting 

3. parts packs like KW, SpaceY, KSPI, Atomics, Near future- These packs make the interest in the game indefinite and the possibilities insurmountable. 

All those modders want their work to be annexed by squad? None of them like having creative control over their work and want squad to just co-opt it without permission? Neato.
 

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I think that some of you are nit picking at the details of my post, and mind all of you that I'm not a modder or capable of understanding the work and effort that goes into it(that's why i donate). 

 

For the mods I listed, they all seem pretty basic to me to the extent that that should be in the stock game, I didn't mean to get into detail about how mods are licensed and it wouldn't work. I They don't need a license to steal an idea like they did with comtech. Also those mods i listed, IF implemented wouldn't bother people who didn't want them and I'm sure as always people can turn down their graphics settings. I guess my point was if you can add these features with adding little to the spec'd game requirement then it's a win. We can't cater to people who choose not to update their computer into the current day standards, it's your fault you own a potato not the games. 

For my comment about Squad not pushing this game forward- Okay sure they did updates to unity which is awesome and some minor graphics updates to make the game smoother in stock, but even with that the game still looks awful, the graphics are easy to get around until i decided that I wanted to invest actual time into the game to achieve goals that are beyond my current comprehension. 

 

Willing to buy the DLC but not willing to add a stick of RAM to your computer? Doesn't sound like you guys are very open minded at all. I want to be playing KSP for the next 6 years instead of relishing in the last 6. 

 

"A Simple Request" In words only, I get it. I meant "Simple" as in this is the path that I see and it's not complicated for me to explain. I don't believe I spoke for anyone but myself, and I do still stand by it regardless of the details. 

 

Edit: I changed the title, it's more appropriate 

Edited by Jengaleng
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25 minutes ago, Jengaleng said:

Willing to buy the DLC but not willing to add a stick of RAM to your computer? Doesn't sound like you guys are very open minded at all.

I wish I could. Unfortunately I'm stuck on a laptop that has the RAM sticks soldered into the motherboard with no way to replace them.

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My personal opinion is that squad should implement CKAN into the stock game, and leave it at that. So beginners don't have to dig around the internet for tutorials, just one click mod installation

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Pardon me for adding to the nitpicking, and please don't take my word for offense. But I'm among those who would not enjoy having a load of visual mods or heavy lifter parts added to stock. A lot of us would then need mods to prune them out if we're running on potatoes or if for some of us, the era that the game is set in doesn't appeal to us. (I like scifi so the historical vibe doesn't always fluff my pillow :P ).

Any request to add any sort of wide array of mods or any single huge mod will invariably be ignored. I agree with @Avera9eJoe's statement that stock's lack of content has a special appeal to it. Go get your favorite mod to add parts instead of wish there was a mod to remove unwanted stock parts. I also like that Stock's minimal part catalog keeps the game a quick load if I or any modder just wants to troubleshoot something. And if you want to make stock parts beautiful, look up Ven's Stock Part Revamp.

Sure, we can keep pushing to have mods added to stock, but we have to push with reason and ultimately, it is up to Squad alone what becomes stock.

31 minutes ago, Jengaleng said:

We can't cater to people who choose not to update their computer into the current day standards, it's your fault you own a potato not the games. 

Unfortunately, due to the various economic situations in todays world, most of us just can't help that. And it's good business to ensure that you can still sell your game to as many of these potato owners as possible. So making epic visuals stock, moreover, in a game that's disproportionately CPU-heavy (a fault of the old version of Unity KSP runs on) is something to be considered with great care.

If Squad was owned by Apple or some other elite software maker then they could make KSP as visually and computationally robust as possible and effectively forget about anyone who can't pay for it. Apple's pride and wallets are deep enough to allow them to get away with this.

My simple suggestion is to get to know CKAN and build a list for your favorite mod collection, and have it maintained for you by that, or zip them altogether (and your MM cache) and save that archive to manually drop in when you create a fresh KSP install. :/ 

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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It easy for a modder to spend 10 hours and come up with a mod which works 99% of the time.  Not so easy to make that stock, which must work 99.999% of the time.

Rule of thumb: for each additional decimal of realibility, multiply the time involved by 10 or more.

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5 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It easy for a modder to spend 10 hours and come up with a mod which works 99% of the time.  Not so easy to make that stock, which must work 99.999% of the time.

Rule of thumb: for each additional decimal of realibility, multiply the time involved by 10 or more.

I wish my mods only took 10 hours to make

55940527.jpg

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Some take much longer; In fact, I'd say most do.

It was a number.  Specifically, it's the number of hours I expect to put into a new mod I'm writing which I started last night while streaming.  Small but useful.

In fact, I put about 10 hours into the revival of CCTV, what with bug fixing and enhancements.

Edited by linuxgurugamer
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2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It easy for a modder to spend 10 hours and come up with a mod which works 99% of the time.  Not so easy to make that stock, which must work 99.999% of the time.

Rule of thumb: for each additional decimal of realibility, multiply the time involved by 10 or more.

That's a very selfless of you linux, considering all of the work you put into the modding community to make this game better. I would like to see people like you relieved of such workload. It makes sense why squad won't be interested in implementing said mods. 

4 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Pardon me for adding to the nitpicking, and please don't take my word for offense. But I'm among those who would not enjoy having a load of visual mods or heavy lifter parts added to stock. A lot of us would then need mods to prune them out if we're running on potatoes or if for some of us, the era that the game is set in doesn't appeal to us. (I like scifi so the historical vibe doesn't always fluff my pillow :P ).

Any request to add any sort of wide array of mods or any single huge mod will invariably be ignored. I agree with @Avera9eJoe's statement that stock's lack of content has a special appeal to it. Go get your favorite mod to add parts instead of wish there was a mod to remove unwanted stock parts. I also like that Stock's minimal part catalog keeps the game a quick load if I or any modder just wants to troubleshoot something. And if you want to make stock parts beautiful, look up Ven's Stock Part Revamp.

Sure, we can keep pushing to have mods added to stock, but we have to push with reason and ultimately, it is up to Squad alone what becomes stock.

Unfortunately, due to the various economic situations in todays world, most of us just can't help that. And it's good business to ensure that you can still sell your game to as many of these potato owners as possible. So making epic visuals stock, moreover, in a game that's disproportionately CPU-heavy (a fault of the old version of Unity KSP runs on) is something to be considered with great care.

If Squad was owned by Apple or some other elite software maker then they could make KSP as visually and computationally robust as possible and effectively forget about anyone who can't pay for it. Apple's pride and wallets are deep enough to allow them to get away with this.

My simple suggestion is to get to know CKAN and build a list for your favorite mod collection, and have it maintained for you by that, or zip them altogether and save that archive to manually drop in when you create a fresh KSP install. :/ 

I agree with Joe as well, there is something special about the lack of features in stock and it really simplifies the game- thats a good thing. I do stand firm on the visual though, I can't imagine people complaining about being ABLE to ratchet their graphics up to beautify the game. 

I disagree on your point about today's economy influencing less demanding games, in fact it's the opposite. Games with cutting edge graphics generally sell the most copies and as Squad has stated they need to "chop more wood" to reach a mass appeal market or squeeze more out of it's current playerbase. Better Visuals would help move the game from Niche to more mainstream. 

I took no offense to anything anyone said in their replies, I just saw that some of those replies really dug into the details and not the overall point. I can see now that this community is deeply entrenched, however helpful. Everyone has their reasons why they play and how they play, mods allow that flexibility...

My frustrations come after a few hours of manually installing mods that are compatible with my version of the game, put in over 40 hours into a single player campaign then encounter constant crashes because some unknown modded part or feature of a mod is conflicting. 

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45 minutes ago, Jengaleng said:

We can't cater to people who choose not to update their computer into the current day standards, it's your fault you own a potato not the games.

The game was sold to people with a set of minimum specifications to run it, they can't very well up those minimum specs after selling it to so many. Much as I would love to see stock KSP updated to modern graphic standards I suspect it won't happen short of a KSP 2 release with new minimums.

As for adding mods in general: Sometimes it can be good, others it's better to reimplement as the Squad devs have source access and presumably better access to doing things that modders have to deduce or workaround. I don't think you'll find consensus about which mods should be (re)implemented as tastes differ, but honestly that matters little as Squad's gonna do what Squad's gonna do, it's not a democracy.

For my two cents: I'd like to see KER, KAC, Stock Revamp and some sort of life support mod (re)implemented.

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3 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Then try using CKAN

That was certainly my first go, I found it to be less reliable then doing it manually. Also the index can be outdated or reference incorrect versions. I'm very tedious when installing mods and try my best to do it right. 

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