Where should I spend my science points?

[NewtSoup]

This is my science tree so far.  I have 327 points to spend and my mission control is full of tourists wanting to orbit  Mun, so I guess I'm going Munward with up to 6 passengers ( eventually .

How would more experienced players recommend I spend my points?

Edited June 27, 2017 by NewtSoup

[Superfluous J]

So you can get 3 90-point nodes, or 2 160-point nodes, or a 90 and a 160. Or one 300-pointer (they're 300 right?)

The top 2 90-point nodes should help you get a pilot and 6 passengers to Mun, and if you don't already have it the 2-person passenger pod will help as well. I think that's in a 90-point node.

I don't see much better than that off the top of my head, except maybe follow the "always get science parts first" rule, if any of the nodes offer any of those.

[WanderingKid]

You've got the solid basics available for a Mun Orbiter with tourists, so you're good there.  Might want to invest in the Launchpad for lifter weight if you haven't already, but since you're at Science 2 I assume you've done that already.

Space Exploration (hitchhiker can) and Miniaturization ( Docking Ports) are good places to go next.  Heavy Rocketry to lift them is a solid choice, you can get a lot of work done with the Skipper, and the Kickback is a superb SRB to reduce lifter costs.  If you get Heavy Rocketry, you'll want Fuel Systems as well.

Depending on preference, I personally would avoid the aerodynamics stuff until you can open up the Whiplash.  The Panther CAN make SSTOs but I personally find them unwieldy, so that part of my tree is typically dead until I open up the entire battery of parts unless I get a bug to do something.

Typically, however, my first target here would be for Electronics to get the Seismic Accelerometer open to get... more science.  Then pop Miniaturization so I could refuel my Minmus biome bouncer to drain as much science with a single pass.  My other immediate path (just a preference) would be to go up towards Field Science to get a decent set of rover wheels.  Space Exploration -> Precision Engineering (RA-2 for later) -> Field Science... but normally that would be after Seismic and a Minmus trip for me.

[NewtSoup]

Thanks guys. I'm a Scientist at heart.  I'm going to pop Electronics for the Seismic doodad.   I have a 2 passenger crew compartment already, it was in a 45 point.  I can always send them up 2 at a time.  Just need to build a decent lifter and Munship with what I have already.

[Spricigo]

18 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

 I have a 2 passenger crew compartment already, it was in a 45 point.  I can always send them up 2 at a time.  

Or you can stack 3 Mk1 crew cabin and send 6 at time. You can design a functional vessel for Mun /Minmus  orbit and back with just 1.25m parts (in particular Reliant,  Swivel,  Terrier liquid fuel engines and SRBs)  while reentry heat is a concern. 

[WanderingKid]

2 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

Thanks guys. I'm a Scientist at heart.  I'm going to pop Electronics for the Seismic doodad.   I have a 2 passenger crew compartment already, it was in a 45 point.  I can always send them up 2 at a time.  Just need to build a decent lifter and Munship with what I have already.

Quick and Dirty 6 man tourist orbiter for Mun or Minmus (do NOT land this thing... XD).  It assumes you have upgraded the pad and VAB (more than 30 parts):

1.25m Servi ce Bay with Okto, 2 100 charge batteries (darkside), Comm 16-S, In-line stabilizer on that, and a nosecone on front (Type-A preferred).

3x MK1 Crew Cabins

Heatshield for re-entry, along with 4 radial parachutes.  Overkill but better then smushing 'em.   Slap on a pair of SP-L 1x6's (close when reentering), and you've got a 4.15t tourist rig at 17 parts.

From there, slap on a TR-18A stack decoupler, FL-T800 tank and a Terrier engine for 1,930 dV of Mun insertion and returning home.  Plenty of fuel in that for error corrections and orbital rendezvous, as it should only take 850 to get to Mun, another 300 or so to circularize, and another 350 or so to get back.

Next up, your lifter: Surround the center section with a four set of: 2x FL-T800, T-45 Swivel, and nosecone. 3,000 dV (roughly) in that.  Strut to taste.  Slap a few of the really cheap air fins to the bottom of the T-45 tanks for some extra stability.  Now, just need to catch up a few extra hundred dV.

Last bit: On the outside of THAT, strap on 4 Thumpers.  Definitely strut these puppies up pretty good.

Slap on a docking port and some RCS if you think you'll want it to bring tourists up to local stations for landing them in a separate lander and then using the vessel to bring them home.

Cost: ~30k Funds.  Weight: ~83t.  Parts: 68.

Very aggressive launch profile: You want to be at 70 degrees fast and then ride the prograde until you're over 20km up, then push down to 5 degrees until your apoapsis is 75k+.   Then float out of atmo, then circularlize.  Done with a reasonable precision you'll get up there with ~150-200 dV to spare.  I'll typically pop the 4 pack of outside tanks just before Periapsis goes positive so I can dump them into atmo and circularize on the Terrier.

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by WanderingKid

[NewtSoup]

Wow thanks :).. that's quite an interesting vehicle.  If I don't use it in it's entirety I will most definitely use it for inspiration for my own craft!  - do you mean 150-200 dV on S4?  I think I will spend on RCS thrusters next.. I now have 184 science to spend so I just popped miniaturisation and advanced flight control for RCS thrusters

 

This is my science car by the way.. I just keep adding to it as I get more science stuff and use it to milk everything I can from the local area

[Foxster]

5 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

I think I will spend on RCS thrusters next

Why RCS? 

I almost never use RCS except on the very rare occasion I dock two craft. 

[WanderingKid]

9 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

 If I don't use it in it's entirety I will most definitely use it for inspiration for my own craft!  - do you mean 150-200 dV on S4?  

If you're looking at staging, I mean when you're ready to pop Stage 2.  Stage 4 is all 4 Thumpers and 4 T-45's at once.  The Thumpers get dumped ~10k altitude, and you ride the T-45's to orbit.  Everything in the middle is for after circularization.

9 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

This is my science car by the way.. I just keep adding to it as I get more science stuff and use it to milk everything I can from the local area

For the science car, try the shorter landing gear with structural extensions.  The longer ones seem to explode if you look at them funny.

An older album, but still a personal favorite if you'd like alternatives to the science car:

 

Edited June 28, 2017 by WanderingKid

[Spricigo]

6 hours ago, Foxster said:

Why RCS? 

I almost never use RCS except on the very rare occasion I dock two craft. 

I guess is exactly what he expects to use RCS for. 

As (self-reconized)  experienced players we have a tendency to press or bias towards the OP (oh,  well! That's just what he asked).  But he need to acquire his own experience. 

[NewtSoup]

Just found out that a good addition to WanderingKid's  6 Passenger Mun Lifter Orbiter is an antena.  My passengers are now on a once in a life time escape trajectory out of Kerbin and heading out past Minmus.  Time to revert I think :D.  Also I had to build it out of 400 fuel tanks as I didn't have 800's but that's ok.  A bit of extra strutting to be safe.

[Spricigo]

17 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

Just found out that a good addition to WanderingKid's  6 Passenger Mun Lifter Orbiter is an antena. 

something he also considered important

20 hours ago, WanderingKid said:

...1.25m Servi ce Bay with Okto, 2 100 charge batteries (darkside), Comm 16-S, In-line stabilizer on that, and a nosecone on front (Type-A preferred)....

 

Instead of reverting you may just go to the settings and disable CommNet. For future references consider the use of free-return trajectories

Edited June 28, 2017 by Spricigo
trying to double-ninja @wanderkid edit2: I did

[WanderingKid]

15 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

Just found out that a good addition to WanderingKid's  6 Passenger Mun Lifter Orbiter is an antena.  My passengers are now on a once in a life time escape trajectory out of Kerbin and heading out past Minmus.

LOL.  I do believe I mentioned the Comm 16-S

[NewtSoup]

2 minutes ago, WanderingKid said:

LOL.  I do believe I mentioned the Comm 16-S

You're quite right.  You did.

[Spricigo]

I suppose at this time you already use those science points but I will post what I'd pick and my reasoning:

You already picked Propulsion Systems and Electrics that I'd also pick before the other 90science nodes

1. Fuel Systems needed for fuel crossfeed. I use a lot of pseudo-asparagus staging (DropTank+SRB combinations), basically essential for me.
2. Advanced Construction unlock the Fairing. The use for launching satellites is obvious. I also use as a hollow nosecone cointaining small parts that need protection fron drag/heat (e.g probecore, battery, reaction wheel of unmanned passenger vehicles)
3. Miniaturization Unlock the junior docking port, not very useful in itself (weak joints are not fun) . After you have it contract to build a station with antenna and docking port that can generate power for !!!
4. Heavy Rocketry what can I say, those are three excellent engines

the rest of 90science and all 160 science nodes are almost equally useful/uninteresting for me. eventually I pick then all but the order don't matter much. 300science I got first are science tech (experiment, survey scanner), Electronics (experiment) and Field Science (Command Seat) .

 

[NewtSoup]

I did, I picked the 300 point box for the seismic thingy.  Then I used that to earn a further 180 points and I took miniaturisation and advanced control for the more powerful inline stabiliser and RCS thrusters.  I will go for what you recommend next, thanks

 

On a side note I also just discovered it's a good idea to remember to extend the solar panels as well.    Once more, My Kerbsicles are on a no-return escape trajectory.

[Spricigo]

25 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

On a side note I also just discovered it's a good idea to remember to extend the solar panels as well.    Once more, My Kerbsicles are on a no-return escape trajectory.

All that discoveries looks like fun. At least is fun to me imagine what comes next (unlike when was me gaining all that experience) 

In Spoiler for a reason.  Read after a few more experience. 

Spoiler

Those are some I remember very well. 

Solar panels don't work at the shadow of a celestial body.  And often your maneuver node to capture will be there. 

Decoupling an engine you still need is bad practice. 

One can warp out of a SoI faster than notice he passed the periapsis. 

Design a vessel to return to orbit after landing in the Mun is only useful when it can also survive the landing. 

 

We all were there at some point. 

[NewtSoup]

At the moment I'm hitting Kerbin's atmosphere on the return journey with PE @43,000 and 3000 m/s so I'm doing aerobraking orbits .. extra fun for my 6 passengers.  I have 311m/s of dV left so I'm going to re-jig the staging and have a go at soft landing this thing.

Edited June 28, 2017 by NewtSoup

[bewing]

53 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

n a side note I also just discovered it's a good idea to remember to extend the solar panels as well.    Once more, My Kerbsicles are on a no-return escape trajectory.

You can EVA a kerbal, and have them extend the panels manually.

 

[NewtSoup]

1 minute ago, bewing said:

You can EVA a kerbal, and have them extend the panels manually.

 

You can?  That's good to know.. but not when the pilot is an OKTO and all the Kerbals are Tourists as I've tried sending a tourist on EVA on orbital flights.

[bewing]

True. But you can still cheat just a teeny little bit, and go into the debug menu, and turn on "infinite electricity" for just a second, extend the panels, and then turn it off again.

 

[WanderingKid]

33 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

At the moment I'm hitting Kerbin's atmosphere on the return journey with PE @43,000 and 3000 m/s so I'm doing aerobraking orbits .. extra fun for my 6 passengers.  I have 311m/s of dV left so I'm going to re-jig the staging and have a go at soft landing this thing.

With a heat shield on the end you can bring it down in a single pass if you PE @30,000 or so.  Some folks like heat shields, some don't, but I find them excellent for keeping a slightly rounded end down instead of ending up nosing over.

[NewtSoup]

Well, I brought it all down including the S2 engines on the 4 parachutes.. seems they were fine for that mass.. had a gentle splashdown at 5.2 m/s   I'm currently taking a second lot of 3 up and getting some of my Kerbonauts some extra experience... Has a nasty habit of spinning out after I jettison the thumpers though.  I'm going to adjust the centre of mass a bit higher. 

 

[WanderingKid]

3 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

Well, I brought it all down including the S2 engines on the 4 parachutes.. seems they were fine for that mass.. had a gentle splashdown at 5.2 m/s   I'm currently taking a second lot of 3 up and getting some of my Kerbonauts some extra experience... Has a nasty habit of spinning out after I jettison the thumpers though.  I'm going to adjust the centre of mass a bit higher. 

Woot!  Gratz.  I've never bothered bringing the terrier in on the back because I usually dump it into the atmo with a 22-25km Periapsis and land hot and fast.

The launch flip occurs if you come off prograde before 20km up after dumping the thumpers, even with fins.  Dead into prograde for the separation, and then ride it until you're into the thinner atmosphere.

Adjusting the fuel priorities to use the lower tanks on the T-45 first should also help.

[NewtSoup]

Nice, fuel priorities is something I have to learn yet.  But really I'm just a newbie at the game.  Dozen or so orbit sand 1 Mun landing attempt in the tutorial sofar.  I'm getting good a putting satellites into specific orbits though.  I have a satellite of my own on a 45 degree inclination to pick up temp and pressure readings "above <altitude" contracts.  I just store them and wait until it eventually rolls over a contract area.