1.3 "away with words" update

[Scriptroberto79]

Hi, i played 1.3 the past month and the update is Incredible because it put the game in spanish (im from Spain) but the parts... There are no many New parts, only one the infrared telescope, and that disappointed me plese i want more parts in the next update!!!!

[PrathamK]

That why I stopped Playing KSP for a time, they say a major update, but Its Just Localization and Asteroid Day mod Integration, plz help I need more info.

[passinglurker]

IMHO they need to stop and revamp thier old parts first. There are to many canonized place holders like nova's parts and chunks of programmer art like the heatshields. The rocket revamp has been requested for a long long time now and further delays only make it worse.

[klgraham1013]

It might be the case that stock development is basically finished and DLC is the future of KSP1.

[pandaman]

From what I understand the 1.3 update was focussed solely on the language localisation and bug fixes, with a few other minor tweaks.  Localisation alone was a BIG job, it just didn't add anything in itself in terms of parts or gameplay so it just doesn't actually 'look' like they did much.

[AlamoVampire]

Putting this game into other languages was no trivial thing. That said, I do not like the fact they have chosen to devote time and resources into a DLC when, in MY opinion that time would have been better spent on doing things like an art/beauty pass to unify the parts aesthetically as an example. The fact this one thing gets requested with such frequency says something, even more that such efforts were undertaken then shelved says more. MY opinion entirely. Thusly I have spoken my opinion thusly you accept or repudiate at your whim.

Original post time 16:46:30

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by AlamoVampire

[Snark]

On 7/9/2017 at 9:12 AM, klgraham1013 said:

It might be the case that stock development is basically finished and DLC is the future of KSP1.

That would be my guess.  It's just a guess, of course, since I don't work for Squad or T2 and therefore don't have any more visibility into their internal machinations than you do.  However, there's only just so long that anyone can keep on giving free updates to the stock game, if they're not doing anything else-- they have to generate revenue, and there's no point in doing more feature work if it doesn't sell more new copies of the game.

Doing a localization pass makes excellent business sense, since that opens up new markets where they can sell lots more copies of KSP to people who didn't buy before.  But beyond that?  To keep making money off KSP, they need some way to get the people who already have the game to pony up more cash, otherwise what's the business point?

18 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

That said, I do not like the fact they have chosen to devote time and resources into a DLC when, in MY opinion that time would have been better spent on doing things like an art/beauty pass to unify the parts aesthetically as an example.

Sure, that would be nice, but what would be the business objective to satisfy in doing that?  DLC generates new sales and cash flow.  At this point, I suspect that the well has mostly run dry on new KSP sales in English; I doubt that adding new features would particularly drive new sales.  They gotta have a way to keep paying the bills and making a profit.

My guess would be that the stock game will be fairly stable from now on, with just bug fixes, plus any stock enhancements that may be needed to support new DLC.

But, like I said, just a guess.

[AlamoVampire]

@Snark If the game was more coherent visually it would add a certain level of professionalism to the game. By that I mean it would look more polished and would likely garner the attention of folks who appreciate such things. The times are changing and hodgepodge has run its course and streamline is the new it girl.

Original post time submission 19:37:20 

[Snark]

27 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Snark If the game was more coherent visually it would add a certain level of professionalism to the game. By that I mean it would look more polished and would likely garner the attention of folks who appreciate such things

Perhaps, but honestly, given how long KSP has been out now, it's hard for me to believe that "oh look, there's a somewhat new paint job on the stock parts" would actually drive significant new KSP sales.  Don't get me wrong, I really want to agree with you and I'd love for that to be enough of a financial reason for them to give the stock parts some love, but it just feels like wishful thinking to me.

My guess would be that anyone who's interested in playing a KSP-like game has already bought KSP by now, and if they haven't, a visual update to the stock parts would be unlikely to pull them in.  Would it get somebody to buy?  Perhaps a few, but in terms of "bang for the buck" (i.e. "how much do we have to spend on development" versus "how much additional revenue will it pull in"), I'm guessing it would be a pretty poor return.

Look, I get that quite a few folks (such as yourself) would really, really like there to be a visual update to the stock parts.  Heck, I wouldn't  mind one myself.  It's just that making you (or me) happy by doing that would make zero money for Squad or T2 (unless they charged us for it), because we've already bought the game.  They're a business, and they have to make money somehow, and I seriously doubt that that would be much of a revenue model at this point.  Whereas an expansion pack will draw in hordes of people yelling "Shut up and take my money!" (myself among them), and seems like a winning proposition from a business perspective.

I assume that they were motivated in the past to add new bells and whistles to the stock game because they made the calculation that it was worth their while to do so-- i.e. shiny new features = pull in more customers.  But that can't go on forever; eventually they're going to saturate, and diminishing returns start to kick in once everyone who's gonna buy the game, ever, has already done so.  That'll be the point at which they'd have to decide, for business reasons, to move on to some other way to generate revenue, e.g. from the people who have already paid for the game.

And I'm pretty sure they have now passed that financial point of diminishing returns.  What makes me so sure?  Well, because they decided to ship Making History, and charge for it.    Which they wouldn't have done if they thought adding more stock features was more lucrative.

Q.E.D.

[AlamoVampire]

@Snark Riddle me this then: porkjet put PAID BY SQUAD effort into his rocket part revamp, so, why have they not gone on to incorporate the work THEY paid for into the stock game? Man hours paid for and no implementation? Bad business.

original post time 23:23:30

[klgraham1013]

7 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Snark Riddle me this then: porkjet put PAID BY SQUAD effort into his rocket part revamp, so, why have they not gone on to incorporate the work THEY paid for into the stock game? Man hours paid for and no implementation? Bad business.

original post time 23:23:30

A good question we'll never know the answer to because companies and secrets really, really like each other.

[Benjamin Kerman]

16 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Snark Riddle me this then: porkjet put PAID BY SQUAD effort into his rocket part revamp, so, why have they not gone on to incorporate the work THEY paid for into the stock game? Man hours paid for and no implementation? Bad business.

original post time 23:23:30

That was also back when the game was just released. There were still buying customers, and the art needed a lot of work. 

[AlamoVampire]

@Benjamin Kerman "Needed"? Dude this game STILL NEEDS that art pass. If it didnt you wouldnt see it brought up this much. Further much like plasma trails for reentry (the code for that, for the record is already IN ksp but turned off, a mod fixes it tho) Squad already has the assets from porkjet in house yet they dont use either. This games visuals are incoherent at best. You have the slickness of the NASA SLS parts against the mismash of what looks like half baked parts. Its jarring to say the least.

original post time 17:40:30

[Snark]

18 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@Snark Riddle me this then: porkjet put PAID BY SQUAD effort into his rocket part revamp, so, why have they not gone on to incorporate the work THEY paid for into the stock game? Man hours paid for and no implementation? Bad business.

Neither you nor I nor anyone else outside of Squad is in any position to say if it's "bad business" or not.  Since it's their business, and since presumably they like making money, one presumes that there was some reason.  Just because that reason's not externally visible doesn't mean it's invalid.  (Or valid, either.  "No information" means "no information.")

There are lots of ways particular projects can go off the rails.  Could be just about anything.  I've been in the software biz for over 20 years, and I've seen projects that hit roadblocks partway through for all sorts of reasons.  A disagreement with a contractor partway through, due to financial terms or product design or whatever else.  Or different factions within a company want different things, and one faction wins out over another.  Or a project seemed like a great idea at the start, with apparently solid financial numbers that make it look like a good business decision, but midway through the project some new data comes in, or circumstances change, and suddenly it's not a good idea anymore so they pull the plug so as to not throw good money after bad.  Or someone discovers partway through that there are IP ownership issues, such as an asset turning out to have a toxic license that would constrain the company's future financial or development choices.  Or all sorts of things.

I'm not saying that any one of those examples are (or aren't) what happened in Squad's case, because of course I don't work there, and nobody on the outside is in a position to have any idea.  If you want to believe "they did it 'coz they're evil" or "they did it 'coz they're stupid", feel free-- nobody can prove you wrong.  All I'm saying is, based on my experience in the business, the simplest (and overwhelmingly most common) explanation is that "there was some business reason for the decision."

You're certainly within your rights to say "I wish they would prioritize a stock art pass over an expansion pack," since that's what you'd like and of course you're the authority on that.    But you're really not in any position to say that that's the right thing to do for them, from their point of view, from a business perspective, since you don't have any business perspective here.

[Shadow Wolf56]

if you want PARTS, OR VISUALS then that is why squad added mods for mod developers.

GET MODS!!!!!! (plz don't start flamewar)

 

[AlamoVampire]

@Shadow Wolf56 Not all players can run tons of visual enhancing mods. I am one such player. The only visual enhancing mod I run is Reentry Particle effects which enables the code already IN the game. The fact remains Squad has the assets in what ever state porkjet left them. 

@Snark Two things, while I may not know whats going on internally at squad or TT fact remains that Squad at one point publicly stated the revamp from porkjet was back burnered not ditched.

 

original post time 19:04:30

Edited July 13, 2017 by AlamoVampire

[Shadow Wolf56]

well sometimes they don't have too.

amrite?

Edited July 14, 2017 by Shadow Wolf56

[passinglurker]

On 7/12/2017 at 5:18 PM, Shadow Wolf56 said:

if you want PARTS, OR VISUALS then that is why squad added mods for mod developers.

GET MODS!!!!!! (plz don't start flamewar)

 

Mods are not for cleaning up a devs mess. Leaning on modding like a crutch is how you frustrate and lose mod makers they want to make their own things not finish your game for you.

[AlamoVampire]

I have taken my time to consider my words for this post, weighing my choices, and I will be as concise as I can.

The idea that one must mod this game to fix clear short comings is as @passinglurker said a crutch. Why should we fix an incomplete thing? Truth be told I have what could amount to 5-6 pages of what I want, need to say on this but I honestly fear doing so, so, instead I will ask again: why are we in a culture of needing to mod the short comings away and why are we so accepting of this? Do not mistake my words or my intent. I think the idea of modding to add flavor is awesome, but I find that in some ways we are modding to add in the milk and eggs ourselves to finish making the ice cream we bought at the store....

 

MY thoughts. MY opinion only.

original post time 04:01:30

[sjwt]

I think we should stay on topic guys, arguing over preferences for artwork levels is not constructive, nor a specific need of this thread.