Labs, Science per day and AFK

[NewtSoup]

I have my station ( Babylon K ) in orbit around Mun and I have a few questions about labs.

1) I left my Lab running over night but the game was at the space centre and my station produced no science despite a predicted 4 science per day. Does the game have to be focused on the lab to produce science or is there away to leave it unattended while I work on another project?

2) I gather that only Scientists in the lab itself contribute to the conversion rate ( I forgot to add a scientist to the lab and now it's producing 9.8 sci/day ), Is it worth having a second lab on the station and two more Kerbals? Will they work on the same data or will the second lab fill with data once the first is full or will the second lab simply not function?
 

[steuben]

The labs will produce science when out of focus. Did you remember to start the research?

[NewtSoup]

21 minutes ago, steuben said:

The labs will produce science when out of focus. Did you remember to start the research?

Yes I did, which is what was surprising me.  I woke up this morning and the lab had just  0.3 science in it after being left running for 8 hours ( non accelerated ).  Since I've been focused on the lab it's produced a further 1.6 science.

I will go back to the space centre while I'm out later and check it again when I come back.

Edited July 26, 2017 by NewtSoup

[steuben]

where was the science from? IIRC if the data is from a different SOI it incurs a malus.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

For the lab itself, as long as it has power, data, and at least one scientist (and research has been turned on), it will continue to produce science whether you're focused on it or not. Note that the amount per day will decrease as the available data decreases. You get a higher rate with more data on board. So always try to keep it as full as you can. A good idea is to set the alarm on KAC (you can choose to be alerted when you reach a certain amount of science; I would normally set it to the max, 500) and, after you transmit your science home, load more data from experiments to keep the lab full. This will ensure you keep your highest rate. Also, you should always have two scientists with the highest number of stars you have available. The more stars they have, the more science they'll produce. You also get more for having your lab on the surface than in space.

For a second lab, much better to send one to Minmus. Sending one to Duna and/or Ike would be even better. I believe if a certain experiment from a certain biome has been mined for science in a lab, it won't give you anything in a second lab. This is moat likely to encourage exploration and prevent you from exploiting the lab system.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Cpt Kerbalkrunch

[NewtSoup]

Ok.  The lab has almost full data. ( 740 )

@steuben - the date is from The Mun and is being processed in a station in orbit around The Mun

The Lab has produced a further 2.9 science while I was out so it definitely is producing science while not focused.

It definitely didn't do last night though - the only thing I can think of is the last thing I did before sleeping was turn sound down to 0.  The game was definitely not paused over night because I left it paused before when I meant to leave it running so I made a mental not to do that this time but I have to wonder if the lab somehow didn't unpause until I checked it this morning.  I may have to put this down to "just one of those things"

Thanks for the info @Cpt Kerbalkrunch I gather from that that having 2 labs on the same station would just mean they are filled up with different data rather than working in conjunction to produce science faster from the same data. I wasn't planning on trying to fill a second lab with identical data to the first.  I just have 2 biomes worth of experiments from the Mun and the lab is filled up before the data from the first few experiments in the first biome

My best scientists are only 1 star at the moment but I'm still only early game and haven't finished unlocking the tech tree yet or been beyond Minmus.

I already have a Lab around Minmus which is just waiting for a couple of scientists. I will send them there and then when my Minmus base is built they will go down to the surface and work in the lab there.

I will get Kerbal Alarm Clock.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

@NewtSoup, I'm extremely biased because KAC is my only mod, but I believe it to be absolutely essential. Soon (if you aren't already), you'll be running multiple missions with maneuver nodes set up and future SOI changes, so you'll find it impossible to keep track of. Especially when you need to reload a quicksave here and there. You'll start to lose track of your timeframe. Setting alarms fixes all of that. As a bonus, it'll also tell you when transfer windows are available. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

For the double-lab, with different experiments, it really would speed things up. However, since you'd need the extra scientists to stock it, not sure if it'd be worth it. I think what I would do is build a simple ship (the core being an Mk1 command pod and a passenger module), load a pilot and two scientists, and burn from LKO until you're orbit goes beyond Kerbin's SOI (you could also do the burn from Minmus, if you have a ship out there). Stop the burn as soon as you have a Kerbin escape. Then warp until you leave Kerbin and enter the sun's SOI (running science experiments at this point certainly wouldn't hurt; and especially EVAing your Kerbals: you'd have to EVA the pilot first, then the scientists, since passenger compartments don't have hatches). Now immediately burn retrograde to be recaptured by Kerbin. When you bring your Kerbals home they'll be promoted to 3-stars. In fact, you could take them directly to your station, EVA across, and promote them inside the lab. You'll see immediately how having ore experienced scientists effects your lab.

[Tex_NL]

3 hours ago, NewtSoup said:

2) I gather that only Scientists in the lab itself contribute to the conversion rate ( I forgot to add a scientist to the lab and now it's producing 9.8 sci/day ), Is it worth having a second lab on the station and two more Kerbals? Will they work on the same data or will the second lab fill with data once the first is full or will the second lab simply not function?

Every lab needs a fresh set of data.

But instead of a second lab there is another method you might be interested in. The stock lab model has six seats, two on each deck. Only the two on the middle deck get used. This simple MM patch will let you use all six seats, greatly improving the science output per day.

Also keep in mind the data crunch speed is NOT constant. The more data you have available the faster the processing. When the data pool gets smaller so does the processing rate.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Tex_NL

[OhioBob]

The MPL can also be used to "Level Up Crew".  Normally a Kerbal that has gained new experience on a mission won't level up until they return to Kerbin.  But with the MPL you can level them up immediately.

 

[NewtSoup]

@Cpt Kerbalkrunch I have just installed KAC and I will definitely build a ship to go to solar orbit and back!  Btw how much dV do I need to go from Mun to Kerol's SOI and back to Kerbin
 

@Tex_NL That sounds good. I had wondered about the extra space in the lab.

@OhioBob thanks yes, I've been using it to record the xp gain for Kerbals in the station that visit the Mun's suface. Next will be  Mun to Kerbol SIO and back to Mun ( preferably ) followed by a level up in the lab.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

@NewtSoup, I would use the "drop down" technique. From Mun's orbit, burn retrograde to Mun's orbit around Kerbin (in other words, you want to travel backward from Mun). Use a maneuver node, obviously, for a good burn. You'll see by burning backward your Kerbin Pe will begin dropping. Do this until your Pe is between 70-75km. Execute the burn. Then, set a maneuver at your Pe. Just a simple prograde burn. You'll see that your orbit rises very quickly. This is because you built up momentum dropping down from Mun, so you're moving much faster. The entire burn, I think, should be around 400m/s. That's including the drop down from Mun.

It's important to note in which direction you leave Kerbin, as well. This will determine if you need to speed up or slow down to recapture. A quick check with a maneuver node will tell you which way.

[NewtSoup]

4 minutes ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

@NewtSoup, I would use the "drop down" technique. From Mun's orbit, burn retrograde to Mun's orbit around Kerbin (in other words, you want to travel backward from Mun). Use a maneuver node, obviously, for a good burn. You'll see by burning backward your Kerbin Pe will begin dropping. Do this until your Pe is between 70-75km. Execute the burn. Then, set a maneuver at your Pe. Just a simple prograde burn. You'll see that your orbit rises very quickly. This is because you built up momentum dropping down from Mun, so you're moving much faster. The entire burn, I think, should be around 400m/s. That's including the drop down from Mun.

It's important to note in which direction you leave Kerbin, as well. This will determine if you need to speed up or slow down to recapture. A quick check with a maneuver node will tell you which way.

Thank you.  I'm building a level-up bus, 1 command pod, 1 crew cabin - which does have a 2 hatches, one at either end.  so to take advantage of that I'm sticking 2 fuel tanks on either side of the crew cabin and a pair of sparks for moving.  I'll slap on some batteries and a couple of solar panels and it will be good to go and has about 2k dV which I can easily reduce to a more appropriate level by not filling up as much at Babylon K ( my Mun Station )

 

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

4 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

Thank you.  I'm building a level-up bus, 1 command pod, 1 crew cabin - which does have a 2 hatches, one at either end.  so to take advantage of that I'm sticking 2 fuel tanks on either side of the crew cabin and a pair of sparks for moving.  I'll slap on some batteries and a couple of solar panels and it will be good to go and has about 2k dV which I can easily reduce to a more appropriate level by not filling up as much at Babylon K ( my Mun Station )

 

Sounds good. Before you go, setup a test maneuver node that would eject you forward from Mun's orbit. Keep spinning the prograde dial until you leave Kerbin's SOI. This would be for double-checking. The technique I described is great for interplanetary travel, but just leaving Kerbin's SOI for a second, coming from Mun, it might end up costing the same. It'll be good to practice the drop-down technique, though. It's very useful. Especially dropping from Minmus.

[NewtSoup]

@Cpt Kerbalkrunch I did the thing.  Dropped down from Mun to Kerbin PE 75,000 then burned to Kerbin escape and then waited until the EVA situation was "High above the sun".  I EVA'd all 3 Kerbals and then burned back ( took more dV and time to get back than to get out lol.. 16 days out 60 days back to mun )  On the way back instead of going all the way to kerbin I just entered orbit outside Minmus and then set up a maneuver for a Mun intercept ( possibly why I took me so much longer to get home thinking about it ).  All crew were one star when they went out but only got to 2 stars when they got back though.. No 3 stars for me it seems.  I must have done something wrong.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

30 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

@Cpt Kerbalkrunch I did the thing.  Dropped down from Mun to Kerbin PE 75,000 then burned to Kerbin escape and then waited until the EVA situation was "High above the sun".  I EVA'd all 3 Kerbals and then burned back ( took more dV and time to get back than to get out lol.. 16 days out 60 days back to mun )  On the way back instead of going all the way to kerbin I just entered orbit outside Minmus and then set up a maneuver for a Mun intercept ( possibly why I took me so much longer to get home thinking about it ).  All crew were one star when they went out but only got to 2 stars when they got back though.. No 3 stars for me it seems.  I must have done something wrong.

Doubtful. I think I was assuming they had already landed on Mun or Minmus.  Sorry about that. Never make assumptions, obviously. Landing on other bodies, going on EVA, and having someone in the lander plant a flag are all things that add to their XP. Don't suppose you have a little lander handy? Again, sorry about that.

On the more successful side of things, how'd ya Luke the drop-down technique? Early in your career, when you're trying to save money, you'll find it very effective. If you refuel outgoing ships at Mun or, especially, Minmus, then do the drop, you'll get where you're going with a minimum of Delta V expended. It can be tough to get the timing right from Minmus but, as long as you're not going to Dres or Moho, you'll get the hang of it after a few tries.

[NewtSoup]

Yeah that's quite neat.  You really pick up some speed doing that.  Minmus is indeed going to be my refuelling station.  it's very small at the moment but I have just started planning a base there.   I'm not sure if it's the most efficient way / cost effective way but it is a fun way and I have built a sky crane to drop modules at the base as I expand it.  I may also make a tug that can move modules between kerbin and minmus.

[NewtSoup]

Nebin getting some badly needed experience!

 

I've just realised that most of my crew are in fact rescues and have not done the full rounds of possible EVA's so next they're going to see what Kerbin looks like from outside a capsule as that's a cheap journey to drop down and come back to Mun

[NewtSoup]

@Tex_NL I have downloaded and installed the Lab Mod, I'm using a newer module manager than the one shipped with the mod yet my labs still only hold 2 kerbals.  Any ideas?

 

[Tex_NL]

24 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

@Tex_NL I have downloaded and installed the Lab Mod, I'm using a newer module manager than the one shipped with the mod yet my labs still only hold 2 kerbals.  Any ideas?

 

Then you probably installed it incorrectly.

The file 6_Crew_Science_Lab-1.1.zip contains a GameData folder. Either merge that with your own GameData. Or open it and extract the KSC folder to your own GameData. You do NOT want a GameData folder inside another GameData.
Also make sure you only have one modulemanager.x.x.x.dll !!

[NewtSoup]

Yeah I have the mod installed correctly.  In my Game Data folder I have a KSC folder rather than another game data.  Module manager is in fact 2.6.22 which is the one that it comes with.  Perhaps it just doesn't work with the Linux game client.  Would be weird though as every other mod works.

[Harry Rhodan]

7 minutes ago, NewtSoup said:

Module manager is in fact 2.6.22

You need at least 2.8 for KSP 1.3.

[NewtSoup]

Ok I will try that but 2.6.22 seems to be working with other mods.  However it did fix it. My labs will now hold 6 Kerbals.  That has surprised me as the download for the the 6 Crew Lab is the 1.3 update and 2.6.22 came with it and I would have expected a working MM .