[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ferram4]

@Goldenpeach: I'm actually going to improve the dynamic control system to account for Mach effects in the next release (it won't be exact, but close enough). And yes, supersonic dis-assembly is probably one of the most awesome parts of this plugin. It makes all the effort put in SO WORTH IT!

@Thorfinn: The speed of sound isn't constant and is dependent on air temperature and gas properties, so I don't have too much control over it. I'd prefer not to mess with the gas properties section, since that could get very nasty very fast, and besides, sound moves too slow as it is (Keep in mind, if you see a plane take off at the airport, it's moving at ~Mach 0.3--sound is really slow). If the gas properties get messed with too much then everything will feel very, very wrong, IMO. Also, whatever other questions you ask, I'll be happy to answer.

[Mekan1k]

Great mod, but I hate how it kills the efficiency of, say mechajeb.

Could you make a part/plugin that lets you clock your mach number? I loved that part of the mod.

[Oicani]

I have a problem: updated to latest version and my pitch and roll surfaces refuse to work. Any idea of what's going on?

[ferram4]

@Mekan1k: Killing MechJeb's efficiency is to be expected, since it's optimizing for a different drag model. In addition, the optimum ascent is different between different rockets now, which is something that MechJeb never had to do before and which it is not equipped to handle. Given how much smaller drag is at this point, I would say it just makes sense to full throttle it the whole way and pitch over at ~150 m.

As for "clocking" the Mach Number, I assume you mean taking down and saving Mach Number data from the mission, correct? I'll probably do something like this, but not for a while.

@Oicani: It's possible that the control surfaces had their control axis values reset to nothing. You'll have to set them manually in the editor. Did you update from an earlier version of FAR, or is this your first install of the plugin?

[Hyratel]

I agree, there does need to be a "tack-on" part, as presently, without a cockpit (instead using a Pod), you have no control over surfaces

I dunno - Mechjeb Landing autopilot figures aerobraking properly still with FAR, and Ascent autopilot works great, I start my turn at 3km

[ferram4]

Hyratel, I don't know what you're referring to. You shouldn't need a cockpit for the control surfaces to work unless you're using a 3rd-party command pod that does something really weird. The control surfaces should work as long as there is a part capable of receiving commands, and the stock pods have been modified to have the control systems GUI. Please get back to me about what you're using, since it probably means that I didn't test things as thoroughly as I should have.

Also, for anyone interested, you'll be happy to know that in v0.5, you'll be able to analyze your planes in the SPH and have an idea of how they'll fly before you go on the runway. At least you will if you're familiar with aerodynamic data. So that means that a lot of people will crash a lot of planes while learning how to read the data. Oh well, it's not like that's anything new.

But more seriously, this should lead to the ability to plan airplane design a bit more, especially at high Mach numbers.

[ferram4]

I've updated the links in the first post, so they'll go to the proper places.

[Sypress]

Congrats on getting the first mod back up and going after the prior mangling.

[Zanis]

Thanks for posting it again on the forums quickly this is my favorite mod and keep up the good work!

[Noc]

Does anyone have a list of which mods have compatibility for this plugin? I want to use this mod but I dislike being restricted to just stock parts.

[ferram4]

All mods should be compatible with it unless they add new wing parts; if they do add new wing parts and they are compatible they mod author will likely acknowledge it somewhere. I know that Taverius's pack is compatible though.

[theflyingfish]

Oh, no, Ferram! Your entire thread is gone! Kinda weird... at first I thought, "Wow, most of Ferram's thread was deleted in the reset, I didn't think FAR was that new a mod" and then I thought, "Actually, it isn't that new a mod... October was half a year ago." Time really flies by when you get older.

[foamyesque]

Weeeooo, looks like we lost a lotta stuff in the forum kablooey.

ferram: I had some weird results when I tried tweaking the S value in the drag module. Setting it to 0 correctly zeroed the drag, but moving between 160 and 0.016 only shifted my terminal velocity by about 1 m/s. :/

[Swifty]

Ferram4 loving this mod. Though finding it incredibly difficult designing planes that work so much so I've dug out Raymer again.

I have noticed one bug though I'm not 100% sure it's weather is your mod or KSP core. When creating a symmetrical aircraft using the mirror feature in the SPH it sometimes only takes into account the part you placed not the mirrored part also. When it does work recalculating the stability derivatives can cause only one side to be taken into account and thus the CoL jumps to one side.

I'm not sure if this is a bug with your mod or with how KSP core deals with mirrored parts.

[ferram4]

@foamy: If the terminal velocity is already really low increasing S will not decrease it too much. Try reducing S further; you might have been multiplying it by the reciprocal of the proper factor.

@Swifty: That's a known issue with FAR; don't worry too much about it, it only affects the CoL indicator, not anything else.

[TheGripenSaidWhat?]

Hey Ferram, I've been noticing a bug where sometimes in the SPH or the VAB the stall angle changes to a ridiculously high degree, something like 859.999. I don't think it actually treats the stall angle to be that high and instead simulates the physics normally in flight, but it'd be nice to know when designing my planes what the stall angle is.

[ThaineFurrows]

Hei Ferram, Thanks a lot for this mod.

I have a question concerning the drag calculation for a rocket. I try to make a numerical model for the ascent trajectory and would need some info for that. There was once a post in this thread where the formulas were described but that post is gone since the backup.

If I'm not mistaken the Drag force is calculated as follows: D = 0.5*rho*S*C_d*v^2.

The drag coefficient I will try to estimate from a test launch and the info given by the FERRAM flight info window. My question is about S. Where do you get the cross-section area from?

Any help on that would be highly appreciated

[whatisthisidonteven]

Having fun with this mod, makes rocket ascents much more realistic

[herpderpmcderp]

Can I make a little request? Can we get a version that only has the ability to alter what the control surfaces can do and not the aerodynamics of the game?

[ferram4]

@TheGripenSaidWhat?: That's what it defaults to when it isn't running the actual stall angle calculation. Try turning on the CoL indicator and see if that fixes it.

@ThaineFurrows: The surface area S is determined from the model geometry for each part; currently it isn't output anywhere. I'll see about adding an output for that somewhere.

@herpderpmcderp: Nope, that's impossible; I don't know what type of "aerodynamics" the winglets / control surfaces use in their calculations and so due to the EULA banning decompiling the game code I can't make a functioning copy of those modules. Besides that, the "aerodynamics" of those things are so terrible that I have no desire to release something implementing that code.

[cardgame]

I have several aircraft that wobble uncontrollably, shaking the entire screen several times per second. My plane stays completely intact, but it's pretty godawful to watch. This only happens when atmo density > 1.0 AND speed > 125m/s. I'm thinking it's got to be some kind of bug, and as far as I can tell, it is repeatable. I'll upload a video soonâ„¢.

Also, on crafts that use clipping parts in the editor, they have an uncontrollable roll in-flight much like planes did before 15.0 and official spaceplanes. Without any input from me whatsoever, not even trim, the control surfaces will activate and ---- my plane. This does not occur with the stock game and the same part-clipping craft. This may actually be a feature, just thought I'd let you know.

Edited April 21, 2013 by cardgame

[Camacha]

I am trying to merge Remote Tech parts with the existing FAR setup I had. So far I think I succeeded in adding RT to the stock probe parts by copying the extra RT code into the FAR configs. Some code seems to be doubled up, but it seems to work, so I am not sure I should fix it.

name = probeCoreCube
module = CommandPod
author = NovaSilisko

mesh = model.mu
rescaleFactor = 1

CrewCapacity = 0

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.2845967, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.2845967, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

cost = 500
category = Pods
subcategory = 0
title = Probodobodyne QBE
manufacturer = Probodobodyne Inc.
description = QBE is a sturdy, cubic, and relatively lightweight probe core. It also can survive higher heat loads than its counterparts. Its simplistic shape also appeals to modern art collectors. Truly, something for everyone.

attachRules = 1,0,1,1,0

mass = 0.08
dragModelType = override
maximum_drag = 0
minimum_drag = 0
angularDrag = 0
crashTolerance = 30
maxTemp = 3100

explosionPotential = 0

rotPower = 0.5
linPower = 0.5

Kp = 1.0
Kd = 1.0

vesselType = Probe

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleCommand
	minimumCrew = 0

	RESOURCE
	{
		name = ElectricCharge
		rate = 0.02777778
	}
}

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 5
	maxAmount = 5
}

MODULE
{
name = FARControlSys
}
MODULE
{
name = FARBasicDragModel
S = 0.5

	CdCurve
	{
		key = -1 0
		key = 0 0.3
		key = 1.0 0
	}
	ClCurve
	{
		key = -1 0
		key = -0.5 -0.03
		key = 0 0
		key = 0.5 0.03
		key = 1 0
	}
	CmCurve
	{
		key = -1 0
		key = -0.5 -0.01
		key = 0 0
		key = 0.5 0.01
		key = 1 0
	}
}

// --- RemoteTech parameters ---
MODULE
{
	name = ModuleRemoteTechSPU
	minimumCrew = 0
	EnergyDrain = 0.02777778
	isRemoteCommand = false
}

RESOURCE
{
	name = ElectricCharge
	amount = 5
	maxAmount = 5
}

However, there are a few command modules/rings that come with RT and I guess those are not FAR compatible. Should I go the same route and simply paste the following FAR code into those configs?

MODULE

{

name = FARControlSys

}

MODULE

{

name = FARBasicDragModel

S = 0.5

CdCurve

{

key = -1 0

key = 0 0.3

key = 1.0 0

}

ClCurve

{

key = -1 0

key = -0.5 -0.03

key = 0 0

key = 0.5 0.03

key = 1 0

}

CmCurve

{

key = -1 0

key = -0.5 -0.01

key = 0 0

key = 0.5 0.01

key = 1 0

}

}

I was also wondering whether the order of modules in the config file makes any difference. Cheers!

Edited April 21, 2013 by Camacha

[Van Disaster]

Cardgame - I experienced that ( still can ) with some wings with reversed triangular structural wing pieces. I'm not sure off the top of my head if they expose an edge of a piece as part of the leading edge, but removing that section of wing cleared some really violent oscillation on every wing I tried.

Am I right in thinking flaps move the CoL of the section of wing immediately in front of them forwards slightly? or is it just that extending a plain flap ( I have occasionally managed to make a split flap but not often ) shortens the chord length? I can't seem to design a satisfactory wing with flaps using the default parts that won't immediately pitch the plane up or down if it's not on the verge of stalling, tips or examples would be really appreciated. Even if I take care to balance the aircraft before adding control surfaces it usually wants to depart from level fairly rapidly on flap extension...

[Noc]

I really like to make blended wing designs. Would adding lift modules to all the main body pieces work semi-realistically? Also, can you give a bit more detail on how to assign proper drag values?

(I just got my degree in aerospace engineering, so technical is okay )

Edited April 21, 2013 by Noc

[xau]

Sometimes when I get within range of crashed plane debris my game grinds to a halt and the debug log gets spammed with:

[Exception]: NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
ferram4.FARPartModule.GetShipPartList ()
ferram4.FARPartModule.UpdateShipPartsList ()
ferram4.FARPartModule.FindPartsWithoutFARModel ()
ferram4.FARPartModule.LateUpdate ()
ferram4.FARBaseAerodynamics.LateUpdate ()
ferram4.FARControllableSurface.LateUpdate ()