Leonov

KSP Unofficial Official Computer Building/Buying Megathread. (All Questions Acceptable.)

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Posted (edited)

11 hours ago, severedsolo said:

My new card has just turned up today, so bear in mind this information is based on about 2 hours worth of info.

Windows 10 64-bit (Insider Build 16184) - with the DVI monitor on the 1050Ti and the VGA on the integrated chip (Sandy Bridge, Intel HD Graphics 3000 according to Windows).

...

Edit: After checking the output_log and GPU-Z I believe that KSP is processing graphics on the 1050Ti anyway. The intel is obviously just outputting it (this ties up with the usage levels I am seeing in GPU-Z, and would account for the slight frame-rate drop) - further testing needed to see if this is a Unity quirk, or whether it's because the 1050Ti is set to Primary graphics chip.

Cool. I never even thought to check to see if I can run off my integrated graphics with a GPU installed (my previous computer could not, so perhaps I just assumed my new one also lacked the ability). One GPU rendering to the other's output was one of the first things I noticed. It makes sense knowing it now, but I had assumed that if you put a window across two screens run by different GPU's that each would have to render their own portion. There is however, as you noticed, a serious performance penalty for this.

 

In case you were still wondering, for standard programs like a web browser the rendering will be done by whichever screen the window is on (or mostly on. I'm not sure what the exact criteria is for when one GPU hands off the rendering to the other). For 3D applications however, the application can specify which GPU to use indecently of the screen it is running on, and most programs will use the primary graphics adapter by default. Some games however do give the option to specify either which screen or GPU they should use (in the case of the former, I think they'll also choose the GPU that screen is connected to). Others do allow you to choose, but bury the option in a configuration file.

Oh, and if you go into device manager, you can probably disable your onboard graphics when you don't need the second screen if you ever feel the need. Mine is a full card, and even though it doesn't use much juice at idle, I do turn mine off sometimes.

Edited by Randox
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5 hours ago, Randox said:

Cool. I never even thought to check to see if I can run off my integrated graphics with a GPU installed (my previous computer could not, so perhaps I just assumed my new one also lacked the ability).

Assuming you are on an Intel chip, I believe this was introduced with sandy bridge, before this the mobo would force the on board graphics to disable themselves.

Overall I'm very happy with the new card, according to gigabyte it can boost itself to about 1440mhz, but in real life application I'm seeing clock speeds of 1730 ish, assuming that the card is not trying to draw too much power.) with furmark its holding at about 1300 due to high power draw, but in actual gaming I'm seeing the higher clock speeds.

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Posted (edited)

On ‎3‎-‎5‎-‎2017 at 11:26 AM, thezombiecat said:

anyy other isues i should consider.

 

thankyou for anny advice

 

the zombie kat

Yes, one isue to consider (as the thread performance has been answered), a 29" 2560x1080 or an 34" 3440x1440 Ultra wide monitor. You will absolutely love it

18 hours ago, Leafbaron said:

I am definitely not the most qualified to answer this but I do know that KSP does very minimal if any multi-threading and is more CPU intensive than GPU intensive, so I would make sure that each individual core on your next processor is beefy. For KSP it is better to have 2 large cores than 7 little ones as an example, I don't know the exact technical jargon. 

as far as RAM goes if you are using 64x bit KSP then i believe 8Gb's of ram is sufficient but RAM is cheap so might as well get 16 or 32 :) 

I wouldn't say multithreading is minimal nowadays, offcourse the main thread will be its bottleneck, but I put it to the test a few weeks ago because I wanted to find the maximum performance...

I7 with 4 cores + hyperthreading
1k0.jpg

I7 with 4 cores, hyperthreading disabled

1k0.jpg

I 7 with 2 cores disabled and hyperthreading enabled

1k0.jpg

 

 

There was no noticeable performance difference between the I7 running with or without hyperthreading, there was most definately a performance hit when just running 2 cores (and hyperthreading enabled)

I would not advice going for an high IPC i3, an quad core i5 with an high IPC is the way to go

Edited by LoSBoL

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Since KSP doesnt seem to be the only game you want to play i would choose a Ryzen 5 1600(X). Way more futureproof...

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On 5/3/2017 at 1:03 AM, steve_v said:

Wait, it's one of those :confused: I trashed one exactly like that ~3 years ago. Got it from a skip, discovered how slow it was (and that it had only 2 DIMM slots), left it lying around at work for 2 weeks, then put it back where I found it.
I see it has the trademark side-intake duct too... AKA Intels engineering band-aid for the ridiculous heat production of the netburst architecture.

 

Used one (with SDRAM, as I'm not a complete fool) for a while when they were new-ish, it was barely quicker than a late model PIII... at twice the power consumption.

 

Preshott = Bin. RAMBust = Bin. I am trying to forget these abominations.
 

I guess it could take a reasonable GPU then, but why bother?

...

Seriously, just get a Core2. Or or a Phenom. Either can be found for less $$ than a good beer.

Like I said its just me dicking around. Settled on an entry level card. (Nvidia 610 gt 2gb) it's only a 30w card but it is quite a leap from were we started. 

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11 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

I would not advice going for an high IPC i3, an quad core i5 with an high IPC is the way to go

Or Ryzen. Even though SMT will not help KSP a lot, in other games and applications it will. IPC is roughly equal, but Ryzen provides more for the same, or the same for less.

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You've pretty much traded in your snail for a turtle there. From experience the GT 610 will play KSP on low settings, but turning them may cause extra lag. I hope you got the 610 for very little money.

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8 minutes ago, cantab said:

You've pretty much traded in your snail for a turtle there. From experience the GT 610 will play KSP on low settings, but turning them may cause extra lag. I hope you got the 610 for very little money.

Yeah I got it for next to nothing, it doesn't do bad though, but like you said I'd been racing snails. It has let me confirm though it actually wasn't the Pentium 4 holding it back and it shows some promise either way. I'm back in the game

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Camacha said:

Or Ryzen. Even though SMT will not help KSP a lot, in other games and applications it will. IPC is roughly equal, but Ryzen provides more for the same, or the same for less.

I have to refrase that sentence a bit, It was not a Ryzen discussion, I made the post because there is a lot of discussion if KSP benefits from more cores. what I really ment to say was:

Don't get an 2 core chip because it will hurt performance, but you don't need an I7 either, because I see no gain in performance having hyperthreading on top of 4 cores.

 

As for Ryzen, I have had my fair share of AMD's in the past and wouldn't hesitate to buy one in the future. The Ryzen blows away equaly priced Intels when multithreaded applications are in play, you want to do content creation, heavy multitasking or things like rendering. For games however we have to face the facts, games are rarely CPU limited but are mostly GPU limited. So it doesn't really matter much which one you will buy. There are however always going to be certain games that due to their specific nature will be singlethread limited (like KSP), and the current Ryzen lineup is behind Intel on this one (although not much), and that won't get better with this generation Zen.

If we're talking about futureproof for games, you really can't say if more cores and threads are going to be usefull, it's pretty hard to split gameworkloads, even for 4c/8t's, and it's going to be even harder when talking 6c/12t's or 8c/16t's. You won't see any advantages for games of the past, they are not going to be optimized, and the question remains if in the foreseeable future games will be optimized for specific CPU's.

I found this to be a very good read on the subject: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/03/intel-still-beats-ryzen-at-games-but-how-much-does-it-matter/

A big heads up for AMD, we've got competion again, and we'll all benefit from that.  As for now, I'm pretty good where I am now, but if I had needed a new platform (for gaming) I would definately consider an AMD, but there are some bumps that would hold me back to:

The AMD Ryzen platform is brand new, it has it's quircks at the moment, bios updates, memory compatability issues and such. It will get better for sure, but it's tinckering for now and I don't think we will see miracles in (game) performance gains.
A bit of the 'more for less' is being somewhat comprimised right now (again, for gaming), mainboard's are cheap for AMD, but the Ryzens seem to benefit most from the fastest and most expensive memory one can buy, it's not only the CPU which you have to fork out for.
And the above mentioned considering spreaded workloads and singlethread limited games. (and for KSP in particular, Ryzen seems to be at the same performance point as Intels Haswell's at the same clockspeed)
 

It's just one benchmark though, I'm eager to find out what the future holds, in any way, it looks brighter than it has in the last 4 years, we really did need competition.


 

Edited by LoSBoL
typos
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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

There are however always going to be certain games that due to their specific nature will be singlethread limited (like KSP), and the current Ryzen lineup is behind Intel on this one (although not much)

Even though Intel scores slightly better when it comes to IPC, AMD seems to have much more interesting offers when price is also included. The long story short seems to be that for a given amount of money, AMD by far provides the best single threaded speed. The 7700K is the notable exception, just because AMD cannot match those clock speeds.

Edited by Camacha
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On ‎5‎-‎5‎-‎2017 at 5:34 PM, Camacha said:

Even though Intel scores slightly better when it comes to IPC, AMD seems to have much more interesting offers when price is also included. The long story short seems to be that for a given amount of money, AMD by far provides the best single threaded speed. The 7700K is the notable exception, just because AMD cannot match those clock speeds.

Now that surprises me, for multithreaded performance that was certainly the case, if you say 'by far' I would have certainly noticed. Then again, I haven't been doing the math, so you could be right. Maybe I've looked to much to overclocked speeds, because every 'K' spec I5 runs easily at 4,6 GHz and the I7's at 4,8 GHz. I wished those Ryzens could match those speeds...

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Hello all, sorry to divert the conversation a bit but I've been looking into building a desktop pc in the pretty near future to replace my tired old laptop.

The main goal here is to end up with a computer that I can be happy with for a number of years, and hopefully have the upgrade potential to extend its usefulness even further. I don't currently place many games on the computer, that's what my xbox is for...however, I suppose that could change. At any rate, KSP is certainly by far my greatest demand at the moment.

 

At any rate, I'd appreciate any and all critiques on the below part list, keeping in mind that I'm trying to make something that I'll still be happy with 3 or 4 years down the road. Money is a significant factor here...

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fwLwnn

 

you'll note I did not include a conventional hard drive...I already have a 1tb external drive, I was hoping I would be able to use that for the extra storage I might need. I currently use it for that sort of thing already- storing things I don't use everyday. If that's a bad idea please let me know.

 

 

Thanks for your time.

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Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

because every 'K' spec I5 runs easily at 4,6 GHz and the I7's at 4,8 GHz. I wished those Ryzens could match those speeds...

Those clocks speeds have not been a given in the latter generations. Plus that overclocking on Intel means a larger investment regarding CPU and motherboard.

Ryzen will get there sooner or later. This is just the first generation, which generally means there is a lot to be learned and a lot to be optimised. For instance, AMD made tremendous progress going from the Phenom to the Phenom II.

Edited by Camacha
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13 hours ago, cgoodnow said:

Hello all, sorry to divert the conversation a bit but I've been looking into building a desktop pc in the pretty near future to replace my tired old laptop.

The main goal here is to end up with a computer that I can be happy with for a number of years, and hopefully have the upgrade potential to extend its usefulness even further. I don't currently place many games on the computer, that's what my xbox is for...however, I suppose that could change. At any rate, KSP is certainly by far my greatest demand at the moment.

 

At any rate, I'd appreciate any and all critiques on the below part list, keeping in mind that I'm trying to make something that I'll still be happy with 3 or 4 years down the road. Money is a significant factor here...

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fwLwnn

 

you'll note I did not include a conventional hard drive...I already have a 1tb external drive, I was hoping I would be able to use that for the extra storage I might need. I currently use it for that sort of thing already- storing things I don't use everyday. If that's a bad idea please let me know.

 

 

Thanks for your time.

That's a pretty tight budget. I don't know where you are located and how accesible the second hand market is, but I would realy consider buying second hand.  You should be able to get a massively better performing machine that will last you a whole lot longer. With Intel lacking on performance progression in the last few years a 2014 machine with an 4th gen I5 or even I7 would cost you about the same.

If new is what you want, and you can wait a few more months, it could be profitable to wait for the introduction of the Ryzen 3.

My take on your wishlist if you won't or can't consider second hand:
You can get a digital windows licence for about a 3rd of that price
I'd opt to at least getting an I3 instead of the Pentium.
I'd opt to get 16Gb ram, if you are going to stick to 8 GB, then get 2x 4GB do make use of the dual channel capability
If you don't intend to game much, or if you just intend to play KSP, then you could consider running it of the CPU's internal graphics card, you won't be able to use many graphics enhancing mods, but it will run stock KSP fine. You can then add a graphics card later. (although at this point and time, the GTX1050Ti is pretty good bang for buck)
The PSU is cutting it close, if you want to upgrade to a better graphics card in the future, you probably are going to need a higher output PSU.

For the external drive, it's probably going to be dead slow when connected threw USB, If you can get the drive out of its casing and into the tower it will run without an performance penalty. You loose the 'external' part off course.

 

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12 minutes ago, LoSBoL said:

I'd opt to at least getting an I3 instead of the Pentium.

That was true for past generations, but with Kaby Lake the Pentiums got hyperthreading, now they have almost the same performance as an i3 for half the price...

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Posted (edited)

@cgoodnow

G4560 isn't a bad thing if your budget is tight at the moment, you have the ability to switch to more potent unlocked i5/i7later on which will guarantee you optimal performance for KSP. With all Ryzens sadly you hit the wall at 4 GHz. And I'm writing this as a Ryzen owner. Even with your low end PSU and Mobo I bet you could find a nice 6600k/6700k/7600k/7700k in a year when new HEDT platforms hit the market and many intel users will sell their old cpu's. I would personally go then for used, highly binned cpu that could achieve 4.5-4.8 at low voltages like 1.1-1.2 V so it won't stress your VRMs and PSU. In this perspective it might be wise to shell out a bit more cash for cheap z- mobo which allows unlocked cpus to hit their potential.

Edited by riocrokite

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Hello all. I posted a few months back with a potential PC build for a friend and got some great advice. Unfortunately stuff happened and he did not get around to building his PC at that time. Of course, the world of PC hardware changes quickly so I put together a new build https://pcpartpicker.com/list/jCyhr7. I would appreciate if anyone could provide feedback and/or recommendations. Now for more info about the build: My friend is looking to build a general-purpose/gaming PC that will remain upgradeable for the next 5-6 years. His budget is $800 - $1,000 including the PC itself as well as peripherals (keyboard, mouse and monitor) as well as an operating system (included in my system build). If anyone has any suggestions in order to improve this build please let me know. Thank you all in advance.

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@robopilot99 This really cuts the budget close, but it includes a mouse, keyboard, 60Hz 1080p 24" IPS monitor, and a Ryzen 5 1600 (6-core/12-thread and 3.2GHz stock clock speed)/RX 580 8GB. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/WwrN7h

It did seem you needed a network router, so it might end up around $1010, a little over budget. The AM4 socket is going to be used until DDR5 RAM is introduced AFAIK, which I've heard will be around 2020. Intel's LGA1151 socket is being phased out as well, so an AMD Ryzen processor will have the best futureproofing right now. The RX 580 8GB blows the 3GB 1060 out of the water as well, I can run games 1080p Ultra 60FPS with my RX 480 8GB. Later on he can get a aftermarket cooler and overclock the processor up to ~4GHz.

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Posted (edited)

Whelp, Intel seems intent on giving AMD as much of its market share as it can. Right now, high clocks and sound overclocking are the main selling points of their K-series processors and are the defining qualities AMD cannot match with Ryzen. Unfortunately, people have been experiencing overheating problems with chips like the 7700K. Intel's response is apparently that they should stop overclocking their unlocked processors.

Edited by Camacha
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Posted (edited)

Few further remarks, ditch the 24 inch monitor and get an ulta wide 29 inch monitor, since monitors outlive computers, you only have few oppertunities to get a good monitor, and youre absolutely gonna love it.
Get an digital Windows licence, you really don't need the box and disc and could save yourself a lot of money you can invest elsewhere (see first remark :wink: )
B/G/N wifi?  If you need wifi, I'd get something that supports AC
Do you still need an optical drive?
8 GB in an 1000 dollar system, hmmm, make it 16 if you can.
 

Edited by LoSBoL

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I don't know if its worldwide, but in Europe ASUS is dumping Z170/Z270/X99 mainboards in combination with 6th and 7th gen I5/I7 K processors. They feel Ryzens breathing down their necks :D and are offering pretty sweet cashback deals up to € 200 till the end of june.

Thought I'd share

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The Surface Pro 5, or rather, the Surface Pro without any numeral indication, has been announced. I am particularly excited about the addition of a tilt sensor to the pen, which appears to be bumping the device that much further into professional territory. Other improvements are more incremental, but they are welcome nonetheless. Has anything changed regarding the eye watering price? Nope. They are still stupidly expensive.

I am very curious what the reviews will say, and, of course, what my own experience will be :) As a bonus, Microsoft again nailed the release video. They are really hitting their stride when it comes to slick releases.

 

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Hey all,

I will be off to high school soon, and my current gaming rig [i5-4460/8GB/HD4600] is showing its age. As such, I will be building a new computer. :)

Obviously, my dorm room probably cannot accomodate a full tower PC as well as a 27" monitor (my current setup), so I will be building in the mini-ITX form factor, and will be using my Chromebook as a remote head [monitor/keyboard].

Here is my current setup: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TbZvQV

My budget is $1,500, but (as you can see) I have left a bit of leeway for purchasing more games. :P

Could you all give me several tips on how I can get the most bang for the buck?

Some notes to keep in mind:

  • I may be doing some very mild overclocking to squeeze a bit more juice out of my processor. Emphasis on mild: this is a mini-ITX case, after all, and I've been told that burning down the dorm is probably bad for my health. :sticktongue:
  • I am willing to switch to AMD processors/graphics cards. In fact, nothing is set in stone. Modify it to your hearts' content. :)
  • I will be using Linux (and installing Windows in a virtual machine for games that don't have Linux support) as my main operating system.

I will be grateful for any suggestions.

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Bought a workstation a class lower than your requirements last year (Linux Debian 8, now 9). I am not a specialist in these things, but this setup works and is fast:

Board Z170 Gaming, 16GB Ram (fastest the board can make without overclock), i7 6700k, Strix GTX970 4GB, 4*3TB 7200/min (Raid), power supply, midi tower, half a handful of silent fans ...

Maybe you can upgrade to the next generation of everything in the meantime. I'd just not recommend the newest fancy stuff, it's usually not worth the price if the ego permits :-)

 

Edit: oh, but looking at your partlist your momentary pc is probably not slower than mine, except for multithreading.

... maybe you can just move the parts into a mini tower with a handful of fans ? I remember a time when a pc blocked the whole desk :-)

 

Edited by Green Baron
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5 minutes ago, Green Baron said:

I'd just not recommend the newest fancy stuff, it's usually not worth the price if the ego permits

That's how I think about it to really. how much gain is there for the money spent? have you thought about just replacing mainboard so it'll fit in a smaller package, throw in another 8GB and upgrade the graphicscard to a 1060 (or second hand 970?)  You'd be up and running within 500 bucks (maybe find a second hand 4690K/4790K?)

Especially if you don't intend to go wild with a 4k monitor and will just be streaming it to a Chromebook (what resolution is that anyway? And if 4K, will you really be seeing a difference on a small screen?)
I'd say it would be a overkill.

18 hours ago, Camacha said:

The Surface Pro 5, or rather, the Surface Pro without any numeral indication, has been announced. I am particularly excited about the addition of a tilt sensor to the pen, which appears to be bumping the device that much further into professional territory. Other improvements are more incremental, but they are welcome nonetheless. Has anything changed regarding the eye watering price? Nope. They are still stupidly expensive.

I am very curious what the reviews will say, and, of course, what my own experience will be :) As a bonus, Microsoft again nailed the release video. They are really hitting their stride when it comes to slick releases.

 

definatelly drewling material, but that pricetag makes it an absolute nono for me...  (And it does not fit another of my criteria 'can my 2 year old daughter 'stand on it' without breaking' :o:wink: )

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