The Ultimate War

[The Jedi Master]

What would a war in between two Type IV/V look like? I am strangely curious.

[ZedNova]

I don't know if a type 4 or 5 civilization would have any incentive for a war.

[gmpd2000]

What would a war in between two Type IV/V look like? I am strangely curious.

Im sure that a civilitation that advanced knows that killing each other doesn't gain you anything.

[Hyomoto]

^ Agreed. I'm certain this level of existence is unfathomable from our own.

[The Jedi Master]

I don't know if a type 4 or 5 civilization would have any incentive for a war.

Let's assume that they've mined the universe so much that there isn't much left, but they find a new universe and fight over that.

[Hyomoto]

Look at it this way, what use would they have for mining? At this point they've likely become beings entirely of energy, existing as some sort of waveform or photons. A star. They are probably stars. Binary stars are lovers. Even at type 3, their existence has likely evolved far beyond any fathomable thought exercise. Read about a 'technological singularity'. This race has probably had several, so not only is their existence unfathomable, it's unfathomable^∞. We not only cannot fathom it, we cannot fathom that which would lead to it being fathomable.

Fun answer: with black holes, they fight with black holes and supernovas. Thier epic battles leave naught but stardust in their wake.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Hyomoto
For my amusement

[The Jedi Master]

Look at it this way, what use would they have for mining? At this point they've likely become beings entirely of energy, existing as some sort of waveform or photons. A star. They are probably stars. Binary stars are lovers. Even at type 3, their existence has likely evolved far beyond any fathomable thought exercise. Read about a 'technological singularity'. This race has probably had several, so not only is their existence unfathomable, it's unfathomable^∞. We not only cannot fathom it, we cannot fathom that which would lead to it being fathomable.

Agreed. Lets drop the tech to, lets say, Type II. They still have a reason for war,but they also have awesome tech to fight the war.

[NASAFanboy]

Im sure that a civilitation that advanced knows that killing each other doesn't gain you anything.

This is a mistake. War is caused by greed, which is one of the fundementals of ambition, and forms up a huge part of their nature. Oh, and please stop saying that Advanced Civilizations are wanting for peace. Germany was the most advanced during WWII, and we know what happened.

Intelligence is the mark of a predator.

[ZedNova]

This is a mistake. War is caused by greed, which is one of the fundementals of ambition, and forms up a huge part of their nature. Oh, and please stop saying that Advanced Civilizations are wanting for peace. Germany was the most advanced during WWII, and we know what happened.

Intelligence is the mark of a predator.

But a type 4 Civ wouldn't have any reason for war. They would be like gods to us.

[Hyomoto]

As a Type II civilization, I like the Starship Troopers bit where the aliens are pulling asteroids out of orbit and sending those our way. I imagine Type II is all about 'bigger is better'. Planet sized ships and larger, objects with their own gravitational fields they can use to capture moons and astroid belts they can refine en masse to continue building. They must, essentially, lob stars at one another to do any damage, but they also have a lot of smaller orbiting outposts and battleships used to detect and engage much smaller 'stealth' craft that may try to inflict internal damage. In my head it's CGI and it's freaking awesome.

[Fractal_UK]

This is a mistake. War is caused by greed, which is one of the fundementals of ambition, and forms up a huge part of their nature. Oh, and please stop saying that Advanced Civilizations are wanting for peace. Germany was the most advanced during WWII, and we know what happened.

Intelligence is the mark of a predator.

I have to disagree with you here, the World War I, World War II era was actually quite unique. It was unique in that humans had the capability to fight each other on a massive scale but did not have the capabilities that meant war would lead to mutually assured destruction. As civilisation advances and the energy scales available to us increase, the damage that we can do to one another will continue to increase but the incentive to do so disappears because no matter what one side can throw out in attack, the other side can do enough damage to make the cost of doing so too high.

The Cold War is the perfect example. Had the US and Soviet Union faced off on that scale 20 years earlier, there would have been no avoiding war but, in reality, the certainty of massive destruction to both sides meant that neither side could afford to allow war to happen.

In the future, such capabilities will be available to increasingly large numbers of countries, the only logical possibilities resulting from this are either global cooperation or the destruction of humanity.

[comicbstudeo]

i think of it this way. it would be like "fire ze active galaxy nuclei missiles"

[hugix]

It would probably end in some sort of time lock.

[Holo]

One's already happening

EDIT: This is just a minor skirmish between two troops. Many are still being deployed.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Holo

[Hyomoto]

Wow, that's pretty cool!

[TheAndrewTaco]

I think at that point the two civilizations would have reached a level of technology at which they had the ability to manipulate the universe itself for their needs, as if it was merely putty. I can't imagine what kind of weaponized uses that could take, or who could be stupid enough to piss those people off.

[Brabbit1987]

I was unaware that Type V exists in the scale. Heck I even thought type IV wasn't actually in the scale as well.

Either way, as you become more intelligent as a species, the less likely a war would ever happen. Resources are practically infinite in the universe as soon as you become a type III. What reason would such an intelligent species have to go to war for?

[qeveren]

Stephen Baxter's Xeelee Sequence novels are basically set against a backdrop of two Type IV civs at war.

[Holo]

Either way, as you become more intelligent as a species, the less likely a war would ever happen. Resources are practically infinite in the universe as soon as you become a type III. What reason would such an intelligent species have to go to war for?

Sure, practically infinite, but as Asimov writes in The Last Question, "10 billion years isn't forever".

[Brabbit1987]

Sure, practically infinite, but as Asimov writes in The Last Question, "10 billion years isn't forever".

Well to correct somethings on that. New stars do indeed form. It's not like they die out to never exist again. However, I do agree. Eventually the universe will no longer be able to harbor any life, or the universe will end or restart depending on which theory you want to follow. However, this involves everyone in the universe, and it wouldn't cause a war because everyone would be effected by it, and everyone will die one way or the others.

Our star dieing out only becomes an issue if we have not progressed passed a type 2 by the time. Though not necessary, that type of event could push us to a type 3 fairly easily. Danger tends to push a civilization to advance pretty fast.

[Holo]

Well to correct somethings on that. New stars do indeed form. It's not like they die out to never exist again. However, I do agree. Eventually the universe will no longer be able to harbor any life, or the universe will end or restart depending on which theory you want to follow. However, this involves everyone in the universe, and it wouldn't cause a war because everyone would be effected by it, and everyone will die one way or the others.

Our star dieing out only becomes an issue if we have not progressed passed a type 2 by the time. Though not necessary, that type of event could push us to a type 3 fairly easily. Danger tends to push a civilization to advance pretty fast.

Well, once all solar-sized stars are dead, your neighbour's red dwarf looks really bright, and come to think about it, it would probably be better if you had it.

[Brabbit1987]

Well, once all solar-sized stars are dead, your neighbour's red dwarf looks really bright, and come to think about it, it would probably be better if you had it.

ROFL, you act like no stars will replace the ones that die. Again new stars are being formed all the time. Meaning there isn't any big gaps like that. There is pretty much always going to be another star to go to. Heck it may not even be all that far fetched that they can create their own stars or even live with out one.

[Rune]

ROFL, you act like no stars will replace the ones that die. Again new stars are being formed all the time. Meaning there isn't any big gaps like that. There is pretty much always going to be another star to go to. Heck it may not even be all that far fetched that they can create their own stars or even live with out one.

Whatever you might have heard, the Universe is very finite and likewise contains a limited amount of material. And that matter is irrevocably evolving into a lower energy state with more chaos in its distribution. In the end, all that there will be left will be a tenuous mist of mildly warm, nonreactive fusion products and the last dwarf stars. And then the last white dwarf will cool down.

Rune. Entropy rules.

[Holo]

And then the last white dwarf will cool down.

And in that meantime, that white dwarf will become the single most valuable location in the universe.

[The Jedi Master]

Whatever you might have heard, the Universe is very finite and likewise contains a limited amount of material. And that matter is irrevocably evolving into a lower energy state with more chaos in its distribution. In the end, all that there will be left will be a tenuous mist of mildly warm, nonreactive fusion products and the last dwarf stars. And then the last white dwarf will cool down.

Rune. Entropy rules.

The universe cannot end, at least not truly, because it is ever expanding.