[WIP] Mars Transfer Vehicle

[MDBenson]

Inspire by BobCat making the Ares I, Orion and Ares V I decided I'd take a shot at building the Copernicus MTV seen in this picture:

Here's my first attempt, built on 2.5m parts:

HOWEVER, I'm currently working on a 3.75m version that is more realistic in size and will require the behemoth Ares V launcher to build on orbit

Currently used mods are:

KW Rocketry

NovaPunch (I only use the bulkheads)

Fusty's CBMs

Lionhead Circular Solar Panels

Deep Space Misson pack *

BACE Inflatable Hab module **

* custom part.cfg scaling the centrifuge module down to 1.25m size so it fits inside the trusses.

** Modded part.cfg to make it 0.20.2 compatible and scaled up from 2.5m to 3.75m and altered the attachment node positions as they were outside the part. I'm hoping the author, who's working on a 0.20.2 native version will offer various size modules and fix the nodes so I can replace my version with his eventually!

[MDBenson]

Okay here's some shots of my 3.75m version:

They aren't amazing pictures, I know, because I built it in the VAB vertically and it's too long to sit on the pad horizontally. For my money it's still too small but it's certainly a better scale for the Orion capsule. The 3 Fusty Station modules are a placeholder for the lander module which I still need to research and build. It's a complex beast and will take a lot more building to fit it in that space for sure. I'll also have to strut the hell out of the centre section to stiffen it so it doesn't flex under load from the engines.

Right now it'll probably fly like a dog because it has no ASAS module anywhere (the Orion does have and may work as it's ASAS guidance, when docked I guess?) and non of the modules have much SAS torque. I haven't mounted any RCS yet as NASA's design has it integrated into the docking bulkheads at either end. Needs some thinking.

One thing I have an issue with is NovaPunch's 'Bulkhead' parts aren#t very strongl;y attached. I can adjust that in the part.cfg, I think?

Oh, for those that don't know, MTV was designed to be flown in 3 parts (Crew module, lander module and booster) on Ares V and built in orbit.

Edited June 5, 2013 by MDBenson

[astroadrian99]

I love it however I have some suggestions:

-You could change some textures to make it more realistic.

-In the back it has 3 engines not 4 like you have.

-You can make this part using Part generator. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/part-generator-version-2/

-You should make this part smaller.

-You can make this using the spherical fuel tank (you will need the vab cheat that allows you to attach any part any where) and change its texture.http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/0-20-0-spherical-fuel-tank/

[astroadrian99]

Okay here's some shots of my 3.75m version:

They aren't amazing pictures, I know, because I built it in the VAB vertically and it's too long to sit on the pad horizontally. For my money it's still too small but it's certainly a better scale for the Orion capsule. The 3 Fusty Station modules are a placeholder for the lander module which I still need to research and build. It's a complex beast and will take a lot more building to fit it in that space for sure. I'll also have to strut the hell out of the centre section to stiffen it so it doesn't flex under load from the engines.

Right now it'll probably fly like a dog because it has no ASAS module anywhere (the Orion does have and may work as it's ASAS guidance, when docked I guess?) and non of the modules have much SAS torque. I haven't mounted any RCS yet as NASA's design has it integrated into the docking bulkheads at either end. Needs some thinking.

One thing I have an issue with is NovaPunch's 'Bulkhead' parts aren#t very strongl;y attached. I can adjust that in the part.cfg, I think?

Oh, for those that don't know, MTV was designed to be flown in 3 parts (Crew module, lander module and booster) on Ares V and built in orbit.

I think you should take my suggestions and also you need to make it about twice that size.

[astroadrian99]

If you need help I can help in some parts.

[MDBenson]

astroadrian99: Thanks for pointing out the issues above. The engine thing must have been the angle I was looking at it from In the 3.75m version the docking part behind the crew habitation is much more to scale. The Big gold 'tank' in the middle is actually a bay with the lander inside that is used to land on Mars. Obviously I'd like to try and put a lander there so I can use the whole ship as intended. I've never used Part Generator so I'll have to play around with it a little. I can maybe make a gold fuel tank for the booster stage with it too!

I've basically thrown these together using parts from other mods and parts collections. The crew module at the front, for example, is an inflatable one and does not need to be. A rigid one that more closely matches the MTV would be better (the big parts sticking out of the ends are not necessary). I really just put them together to see how it looked and what size it would be.

Size-wise, I will wait until BobCat has finished Ares V before I decide on that, as the MTV was designed to fly in 3 sections on Ares V so it has to fit inside the rocket diameter... I just don't knoe what that is yet, I just know from BobCat's pictures it's HUGE

Here are my latest screen shots:

Any help anyone can lend is a real benefit. I have no 3D or texture skills at all, although I can happily work on the part configs as I have already dabbled in that a little. I didn't originally intend to make a realistic copy of it, I was just going to throw it together and post the .craft for other people to try.

However, if there are people who want to actually model the craft (and there are also 2 other landers for supply/logistics and habitation and a crap-load of stuff that is stored in those - we could be here a while!!) I'll very happily test and configure it, as long as you bear with me - I'm new to this

We could end up with this...:

Edited June 5, 2013 by MDBenson

[Free Trader Beowulf]

Nice work, but the gold tank is a tank, it's not a lander. If you watch the video, the lander used by the crew is one of the two sent ahead of the crew vehicle. It's the reason it carries an Orion capsule at the front, so that they can transfer across. That's at about the five minute mark on the video. That gold tank is drained on the transfer to mars and dumped. The problem recreating it the lack of a "saddle truss" in KSP - essentially an open truss cargo bay. Using the two girders that you originally did would have been quite weak I imagine.

I wonder if we can talk one of the many talented modders here to create a saddle truss :-)

Otherwise, nicely done - it's nice to see someone building the Copernicus, it's a great looking ship, I think.

[astroadrian99]

hey one thing can you give me the craft file with all the parts you used (it will be alot easier on my computer if you could give the parts you used so that I don't have to download the entire mod with a bunch of parts that will break my game)(My computer is very slow) so that I can help making some parts. I am good at making ships using Part generator and other mods as you can see in this one I made http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/33263-Space-Launch-System-block-1-Crew-Mk-2

[MDBenson]

Nice work, but the gold tank is a tank, it's not a lander. If you watch the video, the lander used by the crew is one of the two sent ahead of the crew vehicle. It's the reason it carries an Orion capsule at the front, so that they can transfer across. That's at about the five minute mark on the video. That gold tank is drained on the transfer to mars and dumped.

Well damn... good eyes, sir, I didn't see that. I must have been sleepy when I watched the video! So that means I need to build a lander inside a 3.75m Aeroshell (read: fairing) to go with it!

The problem recreating it the lack of a "saddle truss" in KSP - essentially an open truss cargo bay. Using the two girders that you originally did would have been quite weak I imagine.

Yeah it flexes like a gymnast in the middle, that's why I temporarily filled it with modules and struts.

I wonder if we can talk one of the many talented modders here to create a saddle truss :-)

Maybe so

Otherwise, nicely done - it's nice to see someone building the Copernicus, it's a great looking ship, I think.

It has a certain beauty to it. It's like something from a Sci-Fi movie except NASA were actually starting to make plans to BUILD the thing.

hey one thing can you give me the craft file with all the parts you used (it will be alot easier on my computer if you could give the parts you used so that I don't have to download the entire mod with a bunch of parts that will break my game)(My computer is very slow) so that I can help making some parts. I am good at making ships using Part generator and other mods as you can see in this one I made http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/33263-Space-Launch-System-block-1-Crew-Mk-2

List of MOD Parts used (front to back):

BACE Inflatable habitat module (requires custom part.cfg for scale)

NovaPunch - 3.7m Bulkhead

MechJeb 2.0.8 - AR202

KW Rocketry - Heavy Strut

Deep Space Mission - Centrifuge (requires custom part.cfg for scale)

Deep Space Mission - large strust and strut to 2.5m adapter

Fustek - Common Berthing Mechanism - Large

Fustek - Karmony Module (from his Station Modules)

Lionhead - Circular Solar Panels

KW Rocketry - I forget the name of the 400 ISP 1.25m engine... :\

The rest is stock parts.

[astroadrian99]

Well damn... good eyes, sir, I didn't see that. I must have been sleepy when I watched the video! So that means I need to build a lander inside a 3.75m Aeroshell (read: fairing) to go with it!

Yeah it flexes like a gymnast in the middle, that's why I temporarily filled it with modules and struts.

Maybe so

It has a certain beauty to it. It's like something from a Sci-Fi movie except NASA were actually starting to make plans to BUILD the thing.

List of MOD Parts used (front to back):

BACE Inflatable habitat module (requires custom part.cfg for scale)

NovaPunch - 3.7m Bulkhead

MechJeb 2.0.8 - AR202

KW Rocketry - Heavy Strut

Deep Space Mission - Centrifuge (requires custom part.cfg for scale)

Deep Space Mission - large strust and strut to 2.5m adapter

Fustek - Common Berthing Mechanism - Large

Fustek - Karmony Module (from his Station Modules)

Lionhead - Circular Solar Panels

KW Rocketry - I forget the name of the 400 ISP 1.25m engine... :\

The rest is stock parts.

Ok Thanks.

[MDBenson]

Hows this looking? I threw some hastily made parts in using PartGen for more Gold Foil power

Notice also, now the centre tank drops out so you can dump it when it's empty

Now. I know there's an editor tool that lets you set things altitude and speed and basically 'cheat' them into orbit? I can't remember what it's called!! Can anyone with a better memory remind me? I'd like to see of this beast flies by taking it to Minimus and back.

[astroadrian99]

Looks great. Told you Part Generator was a good mod to make simple tanks. And one more suggestion it might look better if instead of using the 3 adapter it might look good just putting 3 of the small cube struts and and the engines on top. Just a suggestion

[chobit-389]

Do you have any other photos of the Copernicus? I need all the research material I can get

[Free Trader Beowulf]

Well damn... good eyes, sir, I didn't see that. I must have been sleepy when I watched the video! So that means I need to build a lander inside a 3.75m Aeroshell (read: fairing) to go with it!

Yeah :-) I reckon the fairings in KW should do the trick, and the lander itself is pretty cool, landing horizontally. HOME has some horizontal landing gear, I've not come across any others.

[Mekan1k]

Use Orda for that, or Hyperedit.

[CleverClothe]

I was looking this craft as well. Here is some of the source material I gathered.

Orbiter Add-on

http://www.flickr.com/photos/virtualspaceflight/

http://journalofcosmology.com/Mars105.html

[MDBenson]

Here's my latest progress:

The Gold texture is different, don't know if it's better or worse but it's... okay. Some surface bump mapping and specular lighting would improve it but right now it is all I can make

I have set-up the fuel levels to be approximately based on the equivalent KW Rocketry parts. I have also switched it to a set of three custom (shrunk slightly and given better thrust and SPI) nuclear engines as, after reading into it, MTV, in that guise, was supposed to use a variation on NERVA nuclear fission engines.

I had to pack some guidance into the craft too, as it didn't fly at all and flew in the wrong direction if I docked an Orion capsule to it.

The snag is it seems be the TWR. It weighs the top-side of 140 mt fully laden, but the engines only put out 75kN each (making 200kN total) so acceleration at nodes takes FOREVER. It took about 55 secs to gain 160 m/s in an OMS maneuever I did during testing. It doesn't have enough Delta-V for my liking either. 5800-ish IIRC. Considering it'd probably snap if I aerobraked it, I suspect that's not enough to get there, slow it down, get back and slow it down again... It also eats mono-propellant like you would not believe, about 3.9 per sec. Considering it's size it turns well under RCS but not under SAS, inspite of me equipping a flight guidance system and a SAS wheel. 25 SAS torque doesn't seem to be enough

Oh also since I did that I've strutted out the middle open segments a bit more to stiffen it. Without the mid-tank it was flexing quite a bit under acceleration and ASAS. It does... less so now.

[WCOLE360]

What happened to that research you were doing on the MTV for that project?

[astroadrian99]

Here's my latest progress:

The Gold texture is different, don't know if it's better or worse but it's... okay. Some surface bump mapping and specular lighting would improve it but right now it is all I can make

I have set-up the fuel levels to be approximately based on the equivalent KW Rocketry parts. I have also switched it to a set of three custom (shrunk slightly and given better thrust and SPI) nuclear engines as, after reading into it, MTV, in that guise, was supposed to use a variation on NERVA nuclear fission engines.

I had to pack some guidance into the craft too, as it didn't fly at all and flew in the wrong direction if I docked an Orion capsule to it.

The snag is it seems be the TWR. It weighs the top-side of 140 mt fully laden, but the engines only put out 75kN each (making 200kN total) so acceleration at nodes takes FOREVER. It took about 55 secs to gain 160 m/s in an OMS maneuever I did during testing. It doesn't have enough Delta-V for my liking either. 5800-ish IIRC. Considering it'd probably snap if I aerobraked it, I suspect that's not enough to get there, slow it down, get back and slow it down again... It also eats mono-propellant like you would not believe, about 3.9 per sec. Considering it's size it turns well under RCS but not under SAS, inspite of me equipping a flight guidance system and a SAS wheel. 25 SAS torque doesn't seem to be enough

Oh also since I did that I've strutted out the middle open segments a bit more to stiffen it. Without the mid-tank it was flexing quite a bit under acceleration and ASAS. It does... less so now.

Dude it looks awsome. Can't believe that a few days ago it looked like it was just a bunch of mods and putting them together (because it was) and now it looks like the real thing.

[MDBenson]

Dude it looks awsome. Can't believe that a few days ago it looked like it was just a bunch of mods and putting them together (because it was) and now it looks like the real thing.

It's going to get better

It's still just a bunch of mod parts with some PartGen stuff throw in right now, it's not the right size compared to the Orion module and the mid-tank is still the wrong shape.

Oh and, minor update, I bust out a calculator and some note paper and worked uot the co-ordinates for the triangular attachment nodes on the rear for the engines

Edited June 8, 2013 by MDBenson

[astroadrian99]

It's going to get better

It's still just a bunch of mod parts with some PartGen stuff throw in right now, it's not the right size compared to the Orion module and the mid-tank is still the wrong shape.

Oh and, minor update, I bust out a calculator and some note paper and worked uot the co-ordinates for the triangular attachment nodes on the rear for the engines

Yeah I know that it is not the right size and the mid tanks shape is a little different but I believe you can do it in a few days. But still for now it looks beter than something I could do in a month.

[astroadrian99]

One thing, just to know. When you can, can you post the craft.file and parts. If you are waiting for BobCats Ares V its ok, I'll wait.

[MDBenson]

I am working on things for it right now, I am not releaseing it until I'm happy it's okay. I've had some issues flying it so I need to retest it. It's also pig-slow to do Delta-V changes in space. The NTR engines are slow. Really slow. Yes, I am also waiting for the Ares V

[astroadrian99]

Ok. Hope you can fix those problems with the NTR. If you need I think this link the engines Thrust, Isp, etc. Can't find it now but check it to be sure. http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20120003776_2012004085.pdf

[MDBenson]

Yeah, I know they are 900ISP and 111kN (which still isn't a lot!) but that seemed OP'd compared to the stock ones. I guess for a bus this big it seems it's not