Spartwo

Naval Battle League 2016-2017

1740 posts in this topic

Well, after a few weeks of development im just completely stuck right now...

Does anyone have any clue whatsoever how to defend against ibeams?  Ive tested every possible armor layout i could think of, and everything ive tested (both my own and downloaded from the net) takes anywhere from very serious to catastrophic damage (as in split apart) with high reliability.  You can at most lower the odds of being shot apart by extremely thick armor, but even that is no guarantee that a barrage of 12 ibeams (fired 2 at a time) doesnt tear you apart. 

I know that most of us like to keep our armor to ourselves, but does anyone have any ideas (they are willing to share) that perhaps might help me make a ship that can at a bare minimum defend against dual SRM-6M launchers?  Im not asking to defend against high end competitive torps (popper-H, tripedo, ect), but common, why does every bloody warship die to puny ibeams (weapons that my new fighters carry in large quantities).

Also, for those that dont know, i have tried the following core layouts, none of which do jack against multiple ibeams:

*Classic core composed of either multiple girders or ibeams stacked one behind the other off of which the hull is built outwards.

*Single root part, and everything comes off of that part.

*Multiple cores connected via docking ports with the idea that when 1 core is severed the docking ports can attach.

The last one is probably the best option (as it cuts down the probability of complete destruction by a single volley), but it is still unable to sustain multiple shots from ibeam weapons (especially if i aim all of them at the same general area).  So, anyone have any better ideas as to what i can do?  And while im at it, im talking about approaching this problem from a smart standpoint, not just slapping more and more parts on the outside to try and minimize the ability to destroy the ship.  Im trying to find a way to make solid armor without going insane with part counts (which even that doesnt help seriously anyway).

Edited by panzer1b

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I can make small ships to assist the fleets of others? Nothing larger than 50 tons though.

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Don't see why not! I like making small ships anyways, so something to "test" would be awesome. :)

 

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5 hours ago, quasarrgames said:

Don't see why not! I like making small ships anyways, so something to "test" would be awesome. :)

 

Do you want the new Centurion-class light destroyer? Splitting it isn't a kill, and it is fully functional. You could take a few potshots.

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So... anyone wanna fight?

5PjMd2G.png

Also, new fighter poked a Drek and lived...

8I6I5Zm.png

(Missile mounts keep burning off from separatron exhaust.)

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I'll fight. What tonnage? I only have a 50 ton ship at the moment.

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22 minutes ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

So... anyone wanna fight?

5PjMd2G.png

Also, new fighter poked a Drek and lived...

8I6I5Zm.png

(Missile mounts keep burning off from separatron exhaust.)

Duna, 180 tons, 3 ships. See above.

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1 hour ago, Spartwo said:

Duna, 180 tons, 3 ships. See above.

Alright, lemme whip up a persist. I'll try to stay under 180 tons, but that all depends on mass added through munitions...

1 hour ago, Alphasus said:

I'll fight. What tonnage? I only have a 50 ton ship at the moment.

I'll see about battling you once I go through with Spartwo; gives ya some time to work on ships.

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It's a rematch of the first battle ever done so I don't expect to win.

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Alright, here we go!

COMMENCING THE FIRST BATTLE OF 2016: THE BATTLE OF DUNA!

I've deployed 3 ships, with a total tonnage of just under 180 (I'm at 171 or so, give or take with fuel losses in combat).

First off, two of the first Generation Two NX-series warships, the NX-12 Monument!

NX-12 Rocinante
HCNHgIW.png

NX-12 Alternative Negotiator
iGsaX78.png

Just as well, I've deployed the all-new NX-11 Super Valkyrie Space Superiority Fighter for close-range harassment of any hostile vessels.
ipm2bHl.png

 

Persistence link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/59zbh8il5z7pbjs/DUNAFIGHT2K16-FEBURARY.sfs?dl=0

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Exciting!

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12 hours ago, ScriptKitt3h said:

Alright, here we go!

COMMENCING THE FIRST BATTLE OF 2016: THE BATTLE OF DUNA!

I've deployed 3 ships, with a total tonnage of just under 180 (I'm at 171 or so, give or take with fuel losses in combat).

First off, two of the first Generation Two NX-series warships, the NX-12 Monument!

NX-12 Rocinante
NX-12 Alternative Negotiator
Just as well, I've deployed the all-new NX-11 Super Valkyrie Space Superiority Fighter for close-range harassment of any hostile vessels.

Persistence link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/59zbh8il5z7pbjs/DUNAFIGHT2K16-FEBURARY.sfs?dl=0

Not to sound negative about ur new ships, but this is what happens when 2 shots from a SRM-6M hits it:

OceoKoh.png

mvzoCRR.png

Most of my ships carry at least 1 SRM-6M and some even have 6 of em.  As ive concluded over the last week of extensive armor research, you CANNOT defend against ibeam weapons with modern core layouts. 

This is what your missiles do to my ship most of the time, its usually either superficial damage, a section knocked off, and well the usual issue with the engine compartment getting obliterated from dead rear (a problem i have yet to find a solution to for every one of my ships, engines just die if you actually target them intentionally with anything that isnt a macey-torp made of nothing but low impact parts):

9Ff0ueR.png

The funny thing is in this pic that part that was dislodged reattached itself with the decouplers as you can see in the picture.  No idea why its at that skewy angle, but it is actually attached to the ship in that position.  Semi-procedural armor plating is the best thing you can do for armor protection.  If the central core gives out, the ship is (usually) still able to function and wont just split.  Only super high end firepower or an excessive amount of ibeams (dual SRM-6Ms are kinda impossible to defend against at under 150 part hull) stands a solid chance of killing this thing.  That and my new 3rd gen class-V corvette sacrifices part count to add enough internal vernors to just not care if the still vulnurable engine cluster is shot off.

Now i really like your ship, but i would take a good look at the armor protection (which is severely lacking) and perhaps try to lower some of the part count too.  I might give a shot at making something of similar shape to your ship (but with solid armor).

 

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47 minutes ago, panzer1b said:

Not to sound negative about ur new ships, but this is what happens when 2 shots from a SRM-6M hits it:

OceoKoh.png

mvzoCRR.png

Most of my ships carry at least 1 SRM-6M and some even have 6 of em.  As ive concluded over the last week of extensive armor research, you CANNOT defend against ibeam weapons with modern core layouts. 

This is what your missiles do to my ship most of the time, its usually either superficial damage, a section knocked off, and well the usual issue with the engine compartment getting obliterated from dead rear (a problem i have yet to find a solution to for every one of my ships, engines just die if you actually target them intentionally with anything that isnt a macey-torp made of nothing but low impact parts):

9Ff0ueR.png

The funny thing is in this pic that part that was dislodged reattached itself with the decouplers as you can see in the picture.  No idea why its at that skewy angle, but it is actually attached to the ship in that position.  Semi-procedural armor plating is the best thing you can do for armor protection.  If the central core gives out, the ship is (usually) still able to function and wont just split.  Only super high end firepower or an excessive amount of ibeams (dual SRM-6Ms are kinda impossible to defend against at under 150 part hull) stands a solid chance of killing this thing.  That and my new 3rd gen class-V corvette sacrifices part count to add enough internal vernors to just not care if the still vulnurable engine cluster is shot off.

Now i really like your ship, but i would take a good look at the armor protection (which is severely lacking) and perhaps try to lower some of the part count too.  I might give a shot at making something of similar shape to your ship (but with solid armor).

 

I suspect lag had something to do with that, since I shot 6 i-beam type missiles at the Monument just now in a test-

S1FjDLZ.png
bGacDTp.png

Dinged up a bit, but still functional and fully-armed. That being said, the NX-12 is not "lacking" in armor, but is fully encased in my standard hybrid armor plate, and is equipped with internal bulkheads to prevent shrapnel from fully traversing the ship. However, I don't think the reason you managed to harm it is that it is weak, merely that (as it has been for several updates now) you shot a high-velocity projectile in a laggy environment at an armored ship, and phasing occurred. Otherwise, I don't see how you managed to do that.

*Just as well, though, I'm not intending for my ships to be near-invulnerable Drek clones either, just armored enough to deter fighter attacks and provide some protection from heavier missiles. *

Also, this is what an accurate shot from my (admittedly stripped of my standard penetrator tip to fit inside the missile bays) mini-ASM V3 did to the attacker I used (which was lower-part-count to reduce lag interference):

acYxcbr.png
muAzCDK.png

Total annihilation. The trick with "slug" missiles is to fire them at longer range and let the velocity build to several hundred m/s before impact, and to hit as close to the ship's CoM as possible. Even if you fail to pierce, you often knock out internals from the massive kinetic sucker punch that the slug-style projectile imparts on the victim ship.

 

On another note, this will likely never see combat until 1.1-onwards, but still...

1cxgfoW.png

Incomplete, but getting close to over 1k parts with 3 mini-frigates attached to their mothership/IP booster.

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1 hour ago, panzer1b said:

Most of my ships carry at least 1 SRM-6M and some even have 6 of em.  As ive concluded over the last week of extensive armor research, you CANNOT defend against ibeam weapons with modern core layouts. 

This is what your missiles do to my ship most of the time, its usually either superficial damage, a section knocked off, and well the usual issue with the engine compartment getting obliterated from dead rear (a problem i have yet to find a solution to for every one of my ships, engines just die if you actually target them intentionally with anything that isnt a macey-torp made of nothing but low impact parts):

9Ff0ueR.png

The funny thing is in this pic that part that was dislodged reattached itself with the decouplers as you can see in the picture.  No idea why its at that skewy angle, but it is actually attached to the ship in that position.  Semi-procedural armor plating is the best thing you can do for armor protection.  If the central core gives out, the ship is (usually) still able to function and wont just split.  Only super high end firepower or an excessive amount of ibeams (dual SRM-6Ms are kinda impossible to defend against at under 150 part hull) stands a solid chance of killing this thing.  That and my new 3rd gen class-V corvette sacrifices part count to add enough internal vernors to just not care if the still vulnurable engine cluster is shot off.

Now i really like your ship, but i would take a good look at the armor protection (which is severely lacking) and perhaps try to lower some of the part count too.  I might give a shot at making something of similar shape to your ship (but with solid armor).

 

1. nice armor. Do you mean that just the armor is 150 parts, or the whole ship is? If the whole ship is, that's mighty impressive!

2. I too have conducted extensive weapons and armor testing.

mEG9HbU.png

I must be missing something, because it seems like i-beams don't actually do that much damage. I've found that a single armor plate can stop them. also, what is an SRM-6M? Now that you speak of this high-velocity superweapon, you have my curiosity.

3. Also, i found a wonderful strategy for substantially decreasing the inaccuracy of your weaponry: Target Radar jammers! Huzzah! Plz no steal

1T9ZkLe.png

4. how does this battling work? if you miss during your turn do you have to stay missed, or can you quickload and retry as many times as you want to make sure you hit the enemy?

 

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Boopity boop

Ob85h2C.png

Several unidentified craft have been detected in LDO, SIC-Donnager, D1, and D2(90 total) have been dispatched to investigate.

ya2INHj.png

The ships disperse in order to prevent a kessler incident between ships.

ffr5zPK.png

D2 moves to 'negotiate'

SS21cKL.png

In the mists of firing the primary power source became detached, she will need to slowly burn through her fuel in order to remain active. Despite this she can still no longer contribute to the fight due to a lack of munitions ports.

4VG6xyF.png

(I believe some rounds got caught inside the ship going through the weapons ports and burned through the hull)

 

Edited by Spartwo
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Persistence file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6s6192losjg0pzg/BattleRound2HEATBoogaloo.sfs?dl=0

Now, onto the battle report:

After planning out my move, I checked on the destroyed NX-12:
c0KbR3I.png
pmnheyC.png
Somehow, you managed to vaporize something inside the center of the hull that overheated the core spine part, severing the ship's respective sections of hull and fuel storage (I may look into the aft section for upgrades to armor, if I do add any in the near future). Good aim.

Next, I sent the Roci into a slightly altered orbit, and prepared to send the Super Valkyrie fighter after the Donnager...
CU53J60.png

D1FCpi2.png
FN2ONz7.png

After a lengthy transfer burn and some frustrating maneuvers in high Duna orbit, I finally got the NX-11 in striking range.
sxJ31MY.png
I fired off two of the fighter's 6 unguided missiles-
ffnSYWz.png
-and proceeded to watch as the Donnager exploded into a gigantic debris field.
C36eXAd.png

His mission 100% complete, the pilot of the Super Valkyrie then turned and burned into an altered orbit for avoiding the debris (which started randomly exploding from what I can only assume is kraken effects and/or heating).
QscOI2q.png
NORwsh6.png
(The chunk of debris in the second pic blew up behind me while I was in map view)
ZleZfYK.png

Your move, Spartwo. :cool: 

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Armor? What's armor?

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18 minutes ago, Iago said:

Armor? What's armor?

Ditto

I spy with my little eye something you forgot to do...

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7 minutes ago, Spartwo said:

Ditto

I spy with my little eye something you forgot to do...

What's that? 

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1 minute ago, Spartwo said:

RiIFVOY.png

Oh my, indeed you have...

Steal the weapons? I thought the rules stated that once the parent ships' dead, the weapons are just floating ammo? 

*If I am correct in assuming so, there was no way the fighter could've taken them, since it has no medium ports or klaw*

Edited by ScriptKitt3h
added something

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Indeed they are, you cannot pick them up due to configuration but I can>:)

Edited by Spartwo

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Schoop

klB1hLQ.png

Both fighters rendezvous on a ship section to retrieve fuel.

HPpmeZK.png

Despite being less efficient the two proceed to the objective while remaining together.

eqz3xG2.png

After the target is destroyed the two move away from each other yet again.

w1AuykU.png

The two wait to commence the final push...

 

(It's definitely a round getting into the ship and burning the insides up)

Edited by Spartwo
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45 minutes ago, Spartwo said:

Schoop

klB1hLQ.png

Both fighters rendezvous on a ship section to retrieve fuel.

HPpmeZK.png

Despite being less efficient the two proceed to the objective while remaining together.

eqz3xG2.png

After the target is destroyed the two move away from each other yet again.

w1AuykU.png

The two wait to commence the final push...

 

(It's definitely a round getting into the ship and burning the insides up)

Yup, looks like it. I'll have to give the NX-12's mid and aft sections a once-over for chinks in the armor, and to add some extra internal bulkheads for flame-retardation, since it seems i-beam missiles punch through a small section of hull now and then their knocked off (and still-burning) separatrons ignite things inside the victim's hull.

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