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Moon landing 2013 (Chang'e 3)


czokletmuss

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I like the idea that someone is doing this, it doesn't matter to me what kind of government they have as long as they don't use it or the knowledge gained to hurt people. Instead of a competition I would rather see cooperation, just think of what we could do with a joint world space program. Honestly it would be pretty cheap in the long run due to multiple countries sharing the load, and very practical, unfortunately Humans aren't really known for practicality when it comes to foreign relations.

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I like the idea that someone is doing this, it doesn't matter to me what kind of government they have as long as they don't use it or the knowledge gained to hurt people. Instead of a competition I would rather see cooperation, just think of what we could do with a joint world space program. Honestly it would be pretty cheap in the long run due to multiple countries sharing the load, and very practical, unfortunately Humans aren't really known for practicality when it comes to foreign relations.

But the only way to get the idiots in congress to fund anything is competition stupid military projects or oil. NASA is more capable than most but congress is the the block of stone that stops them from going anywhere.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Now that Chang'e 3 is the launch after next, I feel it's time to revive this thread.

Quick updates;

  • The lander has been encapsulated in the fairing
  • The rocket's been stacked at the pad
  • The naming competition is finished; the rover's called 'Yutu' (Jade rabbit)
  • Launch is on track for December first

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What science goals does Chang'e 3 have? Is it just a national pride project or does it seek specific answers to questions about the Moon?

same goal as Apollo: bragging rights. My guess is they're using it as a practice run for a manned mission, eventually beating the rest of the world to Mars (which won't be hard, as the rest of the world has given up on manned spaceflight except a few runs to the ISS).

And after that, China is king of the space hill and can silently dismantle its program too as there's no risk of them being one-upped by another country sending a manned mission to something further away.

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What is very important about Chang'e 3, is that the lander is 42% mass of Apollo LEM and it's way too large for a small rover it carries. One can expect more sophisticated missions to follow - maybe even including manned missions.

Anyways, if everything goes well, 16th of December will be a very important day for the global space community.

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- the historical situation that gave rise to the space race were and are unique.)

And I am one happy little rabbit about not living in such times - although we have our own pile of pooh in front of us ...

same goal as Apollo: bragging rights. My guess is they're using it as a practice run for a manned mission, eventually beating the rest of the world to Mars (which won't be hard, as the rest of the world has given up on manned spaceflight except a few runs to the ISS).

And after that, China is king of the space hill and can silently dismantle its program too as there's no risk of them being one-upped by another country sending a manned mission to something further away.

I will send them some homemade cookies to celebrate with. When did "But we landed on the moon!" turn anything for the better?

The only thing I hope for, is that at some point humanity will overcome this petty bickering and throwing bombs (handcrafted, industrially produced or printed) all around the globe and act as one collective - be that here on earth or out there in space.

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While I believe that a world government is impossible, with all these religous and cultural divides (Try to remove a SINGLE right of tons citizens living in free countries...they'll revolt like crazy. Try to have oppressive governments rule free citizens....they'll crackdown and remove the rights, and you're back to square one with a bunch of revolutionaries fighting government troops)

While I certainly doubt that the Chiniese will beat the US to Mars, let alone beat the US to establishing the first Martian base (NASA is still utilizing the Constellation vision for Mars. Mars Transfer Vehicle, all that stuff on the surface, and a permanent base somewhere around 2040. This, apparently, is the ONLY thing that both parties agree on using. The precursor missions, on the other hand......), or go ahead of the United States in space for the next fifty years, I wish them the best of luck. Hopefully sometime in the future, Congress will repeal the "Act of Stupidty" that bans us from working with Chinese space agency, and we'll then start seeing US Dreamchaser shuttle docked to Tiangong-7 and some Chinese researchers working at the US Mars Base. Heck, I'm even wondering about a true "International Moonbase" between Chinese, Americans, Russians, and Europeans.

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Hopefully sometime in the future, Congress will repeal the "Act of Stupidty" that bans us from working with Chinese space agency, and we'll then start seeing US Dreamchaser shuttle docked to Tiangong-7 and some Chinese researchers working at the US Mars Base.
Why can we not work with the Chinese?

Because congress has "national pride" and for some reason that means we cannot work with the Chinese.

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We don't work with the Chinese on joint projects because they are pretty openly spying on our indusrtial and technology programs. The biggest example was in 1999 and the Wen Ho lee scandal at Los Alamos National Lab, which is commonly believed where China got their hands on the blueprints of miniature Teller-Ulam thermonuclear warheads, as well as other technical systems from other national contractors. As a result, there is a Congressional Act barring cooperation with China on technical projects for fear of further espionage.

I don't doubt we're guilty of spying back, and there is an ongoing dispute over Cyber-spying right now (we're also limiting the import of Chinese-made computers in some sectors) but the reason isn't "national pride" as much as (perhaps warranted) paranoia.

It would take a pretty major shift in Chinese foreign policy for things to change, and right now China doesn't need to do that.

But we're wandering close to the line of political discussion, so I'd just recommend you read up about all of this on your own and make up your own mind.

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We don't work with the Chinese on joint projects because they are pretty openly spying on our indusrtial and technology programs. The biggest example was in 1999 and the Wen Ho lee scandal at Los Alamos National Lab, which is commonly believed where China got their hands on the blueprints of miniature Teller-Ulam thermonuclear warheads, as well as other technical systems from other national contractors. As a result, there is a Congressional Act barring cooperation with China on technical projects for fear of further espionage.

I don't doubt we're guilty of spying back, and there is an ongoing dispute over Cyber-spying right now (we're also limiting the import of Chinese-made computers in some sectors) but the reason isn't "national pride" as much as (perhaps warranted) paranoia.

It would take a pretty major shift in Chinese foreign policy for things to change, and right now China doesn't need to do that.

But we're wandering close to the line of political discussion, so I'd just recommend you read up about all of this on your own and make up your own mind.

I guess congress is right. Thermonuclear bombs are big things.
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Neither ESA or Roscosmos are having any issues with co-operation with CNSA; a huge amount of the opposition to any co-operation on the part of the US is being driven by relics of the cold war (both in terms of national attitudes and certain senators), not anything logical.

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Neither ESA or Roscosmos are having any issues with co-operation with CNSA; a huge amount of the opposition to any co-operation on the part of the US is being driven by relics of the cold war (both in terms of national attitudes and certain senators), not anything logical.

And you don't think these types of news stories have anything to do with it?

BBC News: China's state-sponsored hackers renew attacks on US

The Economist: China’s state-sponsored hackers are ubiquitousâ€â€and totally unabashed

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And behind the scenes, the United States has CIA operatives breaking into Chinese embassies and offices throughout the world, the NSA is waging small-scale cyberwarfare on the Chinese government and stealing years of data, and the US has most likely has actively planted agents in Chinese society. We just hear about the Chinese hackers, because they're from a "third-world-country" and all that.

Oh, and from what I heard, many in China do support cooperation with the United States, and respect the United States as a worthy nation. Heck, they even played "America the Beautiful" on CCTV when the Tiangong-1 was launched.

What we need to do is to get both countries signing a agreement banning esponiage. That's a fine good place to start.

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And you don't think these types of news stories have anything to do with it?

Pretty much, yeah. I simply don't see how they'd effect any aspect of space co-operation. Take the main example of one blocked by congress-chinese participation in the ISS. What exactly is supposed to be being protected there? All they need to take part is the docking technology, which they already have (as does anyone else-APAS is officially an open standard).

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I simply don't see how they'd effect any aspect of space co-operation.

Trouble is that cooperating in space requires sharing technology. Even if it is only as simple as docking without interfacing with any ISS systems, it still requires sharing communications technology, specs for the docking ring, etc. That is difficult to achieve in an environment where neither country trusts one another. This is why the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project was such a monumental achievement; so much more so than it appeared to be on the surface.

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Actually I recently did a bill on the NASA Chinese exclusion policy in debate. We were successful in getting the bill repealed. Not like it meaned anything especially when one of the Student senators went up there was a lie. You could tell he was lying by a lack of sources. Probably got a low rating on that speech.

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Finally an official lift-off time, from Xinhua;

XICHANG, Nov. 30 (Xinhua) -- China will launch the Chang'e-3 lunar probe at 1:30 a.m. Monday in Xichang Satellite Launch Center, the mission's launching headquarters said here Saturday.

1:30am China Standard Time monday translates to 17:30 UCT/GMT sunday.

Edited by Kryten
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