(NOT COLD FUSION!) The byproducts of BASIC fusion...

[andrewas]

Yes, I meant Helium-2. Fusion produces a heckuva lot of heat even without neutrons.

You think you can fuse H1+H1 -> diproton, then let the diproton decay back to H1, and you get energy out of it? No.

Thats like generating power by electrolysing water and burning the products. Its a perpetual motion machine. Even if cold fusion was workable, this reaction isn't.

[JMBuilder]

Even a decaying atom produces heat.

[K^2]

Even a decaying atom produces heat.

No, it does not. It releases heat that you put into it to get it to fuse. It absolutely does not give you a net increase of energy. Because energy is conserved, and if your initial and final states are the same, you cannot generate energy.

[andrewas]

That depends on the difference in binding energy between the atoms you start with and the atoms you wind up with. You're talking about fusing two protons into a diproton, then the diproton is decaying into two protons. End result - zero net energy change. The second step releases exactly the heat consumed in the first step.

[JMBuilder]

The way I understand it, it's essentially converting kinetic energy into heat.

But hold on... I had it wrong. What about heavy water to Helium? Energy?

Edited October 8, 2013 by JMBuilder

[K^2]

Yes. Deuterium + Deuterium -> He-4 is what was done with the Fusor. It's also one of the simplest reactions to run. D-T fusion is better, but you need a source of tritium and it generates neutron radiation.

[JMBuilder]

With D-D fusion, would lattice fusion be possible? Yes, I'm aware that there's "little to no chance" that it'll work, but is it at least feasible?

[K^2]

Every indication is that Lattice Assisted Fusion does not work. It follows both from the fact that energy ranges are all wrong and from the fact that people have tried and failed. This isn't something that we are dismissing lightly. If cold fusion is possible at all, one should seek alternate routes.

But if we are speaking purely hypothetically, D-T and D-D fusion are your best bets in pretty much any setup. There is nothing in the description of the Lattice Assisted Fusion that would suggest that D-D is somehow worse, so it's as good as anything else. Which, like I said, isn't good at all, but you don't seem to like to deal with real world.

[Nuke]

i think most of the work being done is to optimize the magnetic geometries to reduce losses. this is why i think polywell will be the thing that ends up working. because its a relatively cheap reactor to build, which lends itself to a more iterative approach to research. tokamaks suffer from the issue of being too big, and too expensive, and take too long to construct. each time you need a new one to test some new optimization to the confinement, add 20 years to the timeline for break even fusion. it doesn't take anywhere near as much money or time to build a 3 meter polywell. there are other approaches which might work too, but unless those concepts are funded and tested as thoroughly as the tokamak has been, i dont think any progress will be made.

[JMBuilder]

If anything, I could try that Ni + H = Cu reaction.

[Kryten]

That's not an exothermic reaction. It's impossible to do and not lose energy in the process.

[JMBuilder]

Well, that reactor in Italy seems to be producing energy just fine.

[SargeRho]

The National Ignition Facility so far is the only Fusion reactor to break even.

[Dispatcher]

While its still a long way to go until practical fusion implementation, breaking even has been a "holy grail" for decades. Humanity is curious and tenacious, so the odds are that one of the competing methods and facilities will find the way to a working solution. Probably sooner than anyone expects.

[K^2]

Humanity is curious and tenacious, so the odds are that one of the competing methods and facilities will find the way to a working solution. Probably sooner than anyone expects.

Yes, sustainable fusion power is only decades away, as always.

[JMBuilder]

Maybe if they switched from Hydrogen to Deuterium?

[Ralathon]

Maybe if they switched from Hydrogen to Deuterium?

They did that looooong ago. When talking about a fusion reactor it'll almost always be about a D+T = He4+n reactor.

proton chain is simply way too slow for any realistic fusion reactor.

[Kryten]

Well, that reactor in Italy seems to be producing energy just fine.

This process is used for generating radioisotopes for medical use. Reactor doesn't necessarily mean power-producing reactor.

[Seret]

You don't think the reactor components becoming high-level radioactive waste comprises a risk?

By definition, reactor components with induced radioactivity are intermediate level waste. You wouldn't get high level waste from a fusion reactor.

[andrewas]

Well, that reactor in Italy seems to be producing energy just fine.

Tell me you're not talking about e-cat?

[JMBuilder]

I'm talking about E-Cat.

Yes, I'm aware that the "inventor" has a history of being a con-man, but I still have a sliver of hope.

[Kryten]

What we have with the e-cat is basically this;

A guy with, as you said a history of producing cons makes a 'fusion reactor' that is connected to mains electricity, that is insufficiently shielded to stop the gamma radiation it should produce, and produces copper as a 'fusion product' that just happens to have the same isotopic ratio as natural copper.

What part of that could leave anyone with hope for anything?

[JMBuilder]

Meh. Nevermind. Back to lattice fusion!

[Nuke]

there are plenty of crazy ideas from credible people to throw money at (they need the funding), we need not throw money at crazy ideas from non-credible people.

[JMBuilder]

You don't have to. I'm building it myself.