Death Engineering

Constellation Space Program - Three Part Challenge

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Constellation Space Program - Three Part Challenge

It's January 2008 and the first prototype of the Orion spacecraft has just been unpacked. This new spacecraft can carry up to 6 crew and is designed for missions to the ISS, lunar orbital and deep space missions. There is a team of engineers working on a new lifter family, called Ares, based on technology developed for the retiring Space Shuttle program. Another team is developing the Altair advanced lunar lander, while another group is off in the corner talking about landing on "the red planet".

These three new spacecraft, all developed using technology from the Space Shuttle and Apollo space programs, make up the Constellation space program. Expectations are high for this revival of deep space exploration, and there is no sign on the horizon of any kind of global financial meltdown that might impinge upon the development of the Constellation space program, in any way, whatsoever.

The Constellation space program is divided into three main mission profiles:

  1. Missions to the orbiting space station to replenish supplies and deliver crew
  2. Lunar orbital/landing missions
  3. Mars flyby/landing missions

NEW:
There is a new rules sub-set for anyone wishing to develop
only
the Mars/Duna spacecraft and carry out the "red planet" landing missions. See "Mars Direct Challenge" below. All previously submitted entries already qualify.

640px-Maximum_payload.PNG

This challenge puts you in charge of implementing the visions of the Constellation space program. You will need to develop a space launch system, a command module for at least 4 crew, and a new lander program. Once ready, you will then plan and execute a series of missions ranging from un-Kerballed ballistic tests to landings on the Mun and Duna. Three kinds of points are awarded: Design Points, Mission Points and Science Points.

Design points are awarded based on design principles which resemble the Constellation hardware and for completion of various stages in the design process. Mission points are awarded for carrying out specific mission profile steps designed to push the limits of the Constellation space hardware, and your mission execution skills. Unless otherwise specified, all points only count once.

As several of the Mission Points include rendezvous and docking with an orbiting space station, there is a 'persistent' file provided below which includes a simple space station in a 120 km orbit and features two of all three types of docking ports. If you choose to launch/use your own space station, it must be in an orbit with Pe/Ap both above 120km. It should also have at least 4 Kerbals on board.

600px-Orion_lunar_orbit_%28Sept_2006%29.jpg

Design points (Max 70 points):

Crew Launch Vehicle (Ares I) - Max 11 points

  • Two stage rocket to LKO (+2)
  • Does not jettison any radial stages (solid or liquid tanks/engines) (+2)
  • Can carry Orion Block 1 to low orbit without using any fuel from the Orion service module (+1)
  • Can carry Orion Block 2 to low orbit without using any fuel from the Orion service module (+2)
  • Uses any solid fuel booster on first stage (+1)
  • Uses only solid fuel on first stage (+3)

Heavy Cargo Lift Vehicle (Ares V) - Max 11 points

  • Five or six liquid engines on first stage (+3)
  • Does not jettison any radial liquid tanks/engines (+2)
  • Uses and jettisons at least two solid fuel boosters on first stage (+1)
  • Two stage rocket to LKO: After the first stage is dropped, the second stage (EDS), carries payload to orbit (+2)
  • Can carry the Earth Departure Stage (EDS) and Orion BLock 1 to low orbit without using any fuel from the EDS (+1)
  • EDS Bonus: Second stage can put Orion Block 1 into Munar free-return trajectory (+2)

Crew Vehicle (Orion) - Max 14 points

  • Supports at least 4 crew (+4)
  • Each crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2)
  • Self-contained multi-purpose spacecraft: Launch Escape System (LES), Power, RCS fuel/thrusters, orbital maneuvering engine/fuel, docking port, probe core (+2)
  • Service module: Before landing, drops orbital maneuvering engine and all it's fuel and at least a portion of RCS fuel (+2)
  • Safely touches down on land and water (+1)
  • Solar/battery electrical only (no RTG) (+2)
  • Block 1/2 bonus: Develop a Block 2 with slightly higher delta-V. Block 1 is intended for low orbit missions and the Block 2 for Munar/deep space missions (+1)

Munar Lander (Altair) - Max 19 points

  • Supports 4 crew (+4)
  • Each crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2)
  • Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) (+1)
  • Can perform Munar orbit insertion from Kerbin-Mun trajectory for both an Altair and and Orion capsule (either Block I or II) without using any Orion fuel (+2)
  • 2 stage lander with separate ascent stage (descent stage stays on Munar surface) (+2)
  • Rover bonus: Can deploy at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3)
  • Addition rover: Can deploy a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1)
  • Pressurized rover: Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with a crewed or uncrewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant lander or a specialized Cargo Altair that brings only the rover (+2)
  • Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that can land robotically and has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8. The Outpost Variant can have, but does not require, the ability to return from Munar surface. (+2)

Duna Lander (Mars Direct) - Max 15 points

  • Lander supports 4 crew (+4)
  • Kerbin Return Vehicle capable of Kerbin return with either direct ascent to Kerbin or Duna Orbit Rendezvous with Kerbin return stage (+3)
  • Rover bonus: Bring at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3)
  • Addition rover: Bring a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1)
  • Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2)
  • Outpost Variant: Develop the Duna lander to remain on Duna as a permanent outpost. The Duna landing mission should include pressurized seats for 1.5 times your crew size (round up). Eg. If your Duna lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Duna lander seats 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8 (+2)

640px-Mars_Direct_Base_Art_001.png

Mission Points (Max 59 points):

Research and Development - Max 22 points

  • Launch a boilerplate Orion capsule/EDS on suborbital flight using Ares I (+1)
  • Perform an abort and recovery (LES) of an un-Kerballed Orion capsule using the Launch Escape System, while first stage is firing (+1)
  • Launch and dock an unkerballed Orion Block 1 to the orbiting space station, for use as a lifeboat (+2)
  • Using an Ares V and EDS, send an un-Kerballed Orion spacecraft into a free-return trajectory orbit to the Mun and perform a high speed re-entry test. Re-entry g-force must exceed 9g's (+2)
  • Perform a LKO test of an Altair Munar lander. With at least one Kerbal on board, fly an Altair Munar lander at least 100km away from the Orion spacecraft. Dispose of the descent stage, then fly the ascent stage back to the Orion. Transfer the crew to the Orion then robotically control the ascent stage into a re-entry orbit (+3)
  • Perform the above Altair test in Munar orbit using EOR mission (+1)
  • Using an un-Kerballed Duna lander and an EDS on Ares V, perform a high-speed re-entry from at least 15,000km Ap. (+2)
  • Launch an un-Kerballed Duna lander on Ares V into low orbit. Perform an orbital test and descent of the lander (crewed or uncrewed) (+3)
  • Use an Ares I in at least one space station docking mission (+1)
  • Use an Ares I in at least one Munar mission (flyby, orbital or landing) (+1)
  • Use an Ares I in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+1)
  • Use an Ares V in at least one Munar mission (orbital or landing) (+2)
  • Use an Ares V in at least one Duna mission (flyby or landing) (+2)

Space Station - Orion/Ares I - Max 3 points

  • Have already successfully orbited an Orion with full crew and returned safely to Kerbin.
  • Launch an Orion to the orbiting space station with at least 4 crew. Perform a crew exchange and return four Kerbals from the space station to Kerbin using the Orion. (+2)
  • Return at least one Kerbal from the space station to Kerbin in an Orion which was docked robotically. This is a "liferaft" scenario intended to use the Orion left at the space station in "Research and Development" above. (+1)

Mun - Orion/Ares I/Ares V/Altair - Max 14 points

  • Have already docked an Orion to the space station (crewed or robotic)
  • Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) (+2)
  • Demonstrate that your Altair can, on its own, brake the Orion and Altair into Mun orbit and perform a polar landing: north pole (>66°N), south pole (>66°S) (+2)
  • Land at least 4 Kerbals in an Altair on the Mun within 1km of either above Altair (+3)
  • Return four Kerbals from a Munar landing to Kerbin (+2)
  • Munar Outpost: Using at least one crewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant and a pressurized rover set up a Munar Outpost. The Outpost Variant can join a crewed Altair already on the Mun or can be part of a separate Altair/Outpost Variant mission to another location. The Altair and Outpost Variant need to be within 100m of each other. (+5)

Duna - Orion/Ares I/Ares V/Duna Lander - Max 20 points

  • Have already successfully completed a Mun landing and return with Orion and Altair
  • Land an un-Kerballed Kerbin Return Vehicle on Duna. Can be either Duna-Kerbin direct ascent capable or dock with an orbiting Duna-Kerbin return stage (+4)
  • At least 4 Kerbals pass withing 5000km of Duna (+2)
  • Land at least four Kerbals on Duna within 10 km (100 km if by rover) of the above Duna lander. To earn these points, the un-Kerballed lander above must be landed and remain powered. Successful landing must take place before the landing crew has committed to Duna re-entry (+5)
  • Duna Outpost: The Duna lander uses the Duna Outpost Variant which stays on the surface and includes a pressurized rover. (+3)
  • Each landing crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2)
  • Return the Duna landing crew and any remaining Duna orbiting crew to Kerbin (+4)

Science Points (Max 7 points):

  • Advanced Technology Large-Aperture Space Telescope: Using an Ares V/EDS, deploy a science package to Kerbol synchronous orbit (Pe and Ap at 1 508 045.29 km +/- 1000km) (+2)
  • Altair descent stage science: +1 for each science-equipped Altair landed on Mun (maximum +3)
  • Kerbin Return Vehicle: Pre-landed Kerbin return vehicle on the Duna mission contains a science package (+1)
  • Duna Lander: Lander on the Duna mission contains a science package (+1)

Mars Direct Challenge (Stand-alone challenge scoring for Duna Landing Missions only - Max 30 points):

Duna Lander Design (Mars Direct) - Max 13 points

  • Lander supports 4 crew (+4)
  • Kerbin Return Vehicle capable of Kerbin return with either direct ascent to Kerbin or Duna Orbit Rendezvous with Kerbin return stage (+3)
  • Rover bonus: Bring at least one rover with seats for at least half (round up) of the lander crew (+3)
  • Addition rover: Bring a second rover (same or different than first rover) (+1)
  • Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with either the Kerbin Return Vehicle or the Duna lander (+2)

Duna Mission - Orion/Ares I/Ares V/Duna Lander - Max 17 points

  • Land an un-Kerballed Kerbin Return Vehicle on Duna. Can be either Duna-Kerbin direct ascent capable or dock with an orbiting Duna-Kerbin return stage (+4)
  • At least 4 Kerbals pass withing 5000km of Duna (+2)
  • Land at least four Kerbals on Duna within 10 km (100 km if by rover) of the above Duna lander. To earn these points, the un-Kerballed lander above must be landed and remain powered. Successful landing must take place before the landing crew has committed to Duna re-entry (+5)
  • Each landing crew over 4, up to 6 crew maximum (+1 each; max +2)
  • Return the Duna landing crew and any remaining Duna orbiting crew to Kerbin (+4)

Nasa_constellation_program_for_moon_mission.PNG

Challenge Rules:

  • Optional: New SAVE files with simple space station at 120km, 2 of each docking port and four Kerbals on board (KSP v 0.90):
    1. Save-game directory: https://www.dropbox.com/s/evmp0jbtbdsa597/CCR.zip
    2. Just the persistent file:https://www.dropbox.com/s/cx4jyo93r1wlro3/persistent.sfs

    [*]Stock or mod parts permitted.

    [*]Other than SAS, no flight assists. Fly it yourself without mods that aid in flight/landing.

    [*]Low orbit is considered to be minimum 75km x 75km.

    [*]Boilerplate test launches do not need to use an actual capsule but do need to have similar mass to a final capsule. For example, the boilerplate capsule/EDS should have the same amount of fuel that the the EDS and Orion service module carry, a probe core, and either re-enter or be able to de-orbit itself.

    [*]Un-Kerballed test launches should use the final, "announced" hardware and be robotically controlled to mission completion.

    [*]Once you develop your space hardware, post it on this this thread as an "announcement" from your space program. The hardware should remain unchanged throughout the challenge steps after your announcement.

    [*]You may announce hardware separately as they are developed, but you cannot claim points on a mission step unless you have already posted about the hardware used in that mission in another post. In other words, you can complete and earn points for each phase of the space program (R&D, low orbit, Mun, Duna) separately before the next phase is developed and "announced".

    [*]The leaderboard will be updated as posts are submitted, so feel free to announce hardware and post mission steps as they are completed. The intent is to treat each challenge entry like a developing space program and to encourage discussion as each space program makes steps forward.

    [*]For space station missions, the space station must be in a circular orbit of at least 120km.

    [*]Where "pressurized" is stated, this means any command pod and not the open-air command seat, although seats may be present in addition to the command pod(s).

    [*]Science points require at least one Science part, one communication part, and a probecore and remains powered.

640px-Entering_a_Lunar_Outpost.jpg

Challenge Summary:

For a minimum of four crew, develop:

  • Space capsule with separate Command and Service modules which will jettison the Service module before re-entry (Orion)
  • Two-stage to orbit lifter for the crew capsule (Ares I)
  • Two-stage to orbit (first stage plus an EDS) for the Orion/Altair/Duna spacecraft (Ares V)
  • Munar lander (Altair) and Duna lander
  • Duna Surface Return Vehicle
  • Perform science in space, on Duna and on the Mun

Using only the hardware developed above, perform:

  • Missions to an orbiting space station
  • Munar landing and return using EOR mission profile
  • Duna landing and return using separate Duna lander and Duna ascent vehicle (the lander stays on Duna as-is)


Leaderboard

Denotes section complete with maximum points achieved

Design

  1. vincespeedmk2 - 70
  2. capi3101 - 70
  3. Istas - 70
  4. Death Engineering - 70
  5. Xeldrak - 66
  6. Jonboy - 49
  7. stupid_chris - 37
  8. BlazeFallow - 34
  9. panzerknoef - 33
  10. WH40krules - 32
  11. Vonar - 22
  12. WooDzor - 16
  13. Bioman222 - 17
  14. steffen_anywhere - 16
  15. cadaverific - 13

Mission

  1. vincespeedmk2 - 59
  2. capi3101 - 59
  3. Istas - 59
  4. Death Engineering - 59
  5. Xeldrak - 38
  6. Vonar - 25
  7. WooDzor - 8
  8. Bioman222 - 8
  9. panzerknoef - 6
  10. WH40krules - 6
  11. Jonboy - 5
  12. stupid_chris - 5
  13. cadaverific - 4
  14. steffen_anywhere - 1

Science

  1. vincespeedmk2 - 7
  2. capi3101 - 7
  3. Istas - 7
  4. Death Engineering - 7

Mars Direct Stand-alone Challenge

  1. Majorjim - 30
  2. vincespeedmk2 - 30
  3. capi3101 - 30
  4. Istas - 30
  5. Death Engineering - 30


Constellation-Components.gif

References:

Constellation Space Program -- YouTube

Edited by Death Engineering
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:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Too much text. And predefined craft name...

Can I have some common minded simple explanation?

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Hi Death Engineering

sadly I don't have the time right now to do a full entry into your challenge (IB student...), but I find the constellation concepts really interesting :)

I have created some replica craft from these, such as the Ares I and the Orion Spacecraft (with a crew of three only tho). I'm sort of sad that the Obama Administration killed Constellation, but at least there's still SLS (which I'm in the process of recreating in KSP as well). However, people have done some calculations and think that SLS is too expensive and will never actually fly :(

So I guess we'll have to rely on SpaceX (or the Chinese...I live in China XD) for these things in the future.

That said, I would still like to post my craft here, just to start up the challenge and to give others inspiration.

So here's my Ares I:

fxO51sL.png

uq1S118.png

Sorry, there are no more screenshots as of now, but if you like, I'll fly it again and take screenshots of the whole flight, LES and landing of Orion, etc... (of course not it you don't want me to spam you challenge thread with non-entry posts :))

I can't find any more screenshots right now, sry. BTW, here's my SLS Prototype on the launchpad. This creature is also carrying my Orion spacecraft, a lander, and should be capable of doing single-launch and return trips to Mun, Minmus, Duna, Dres, Ike, Gilly(duh) and maybe Moho?:

oEytmcE.png

Qbd2Um7.png

So if you'd like, I'll post pictures of the entire Ares I flight, just as an inspiration (uses ONLY SRBs on first stage! and the second stage is powered by an engine similar to the real-life J-2X) BTW, both my Ares I and my SLS use KW Rocketry parts (SLS also B9 panels cuz they're white :P and aesthetics count)

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Too much text. And predefined craft name...

Can I have some common minded simple explanation?

Ikr...

But be fair and considerate, since the OP probably spent several hours thinking it all through and writing that post :)

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Added rules and a simplified challenge summary.

:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Too much text. And predefined craft name...

Can I have some common minded simple explanation?

The spacecraft are named in the challenge as they were in the real Constellation program for konsistency and klarity. For your own space program, call them whatever you want.

Edited by Death Engineering

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Death Engineering presents..

fhNQ06ml.png

Orion Spacecraft

  • 6 Kerbal Crew
  • Water-landing capable
  • Launch Escape System
  • Separate Command Module and Service Module

2GuHY2Nl.png

Ares I with Orion

  • Solid fuel first stage
  • Liquid fuel second stage
  • Capable of delivering Orion Block 1 to low orbit without using any of Orion's fuel

OwHgVFhl.png

Ares V and EDS with Orion

  • Six engine first stage
  • Two SRB clusters dropped during ascent
  • Capable of delivering Orion Block 1 and EDS to low orbit without using any of the EDS fuel

2001Ikyl.png

Jettison Ares V once in Low Orbit

6U4RJBTl.png

6 Crew Orion on EDS Preparing for Trans Munar Injection

Edited by Death Engineering

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Hi Death Engineering

sadly I don't have the time right now to do a full entry into your challenge (IB student...), but I find the constellation concepts really interesting :)

Sweet looking lifters you have there! Have you ever used them on a Duna mission?

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What's the word on that persistence file, Death Engineering?

Already did my first test of an idea for the Orion - not a proper boilerplate test, just a proof of concept of one of the features I considered when I first read about this challenge. As much as it pains me, I might have to join this one too...

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IXyJDfml.png

Kerbin 1 Space Station

The station in these files is on a nearly equatorial orbit at 120km. There are three Sr. docking ports and two of each of the smaller docking ports. There are also four Kerbals on board waiting for a replacement crew. Toggle the solar panels with action group "8".

Using the "Kerbin 1" station is not a requirement. If you choose to use your own station, feel free as long as it is at least 120km minimum altitude.

Optional save-game directory: https://www.dropbox.com/s/evmp0jbtbdsa597/CCR.zip

Just the persistent file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cx4jyo93r1wlro3/persistent.sfs

edit: This station has 62 parts with a 18t mass

Edited by Death Engineering

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Added new ways to earn points.

Altair Design Points:

  • Can perform un-Kerballed landings without the use of an Orion spacecraft (Altair and EDS launched on Ares V) (+1)
  • Can perform Munar orbit insertion from Kerbin-Mun trajectory for both an Altair and and Orion capsule (Block I or II) without using any Orion fuel (+2)

Mun Mission Points:

  • Land an un-Kerballed Altair on the Mun without the use of an Orion spacecraft (EDS and Altair only launched from Ares V) (+2)
  • Demonstrate that your Altair can, on its own, brake the Orion and Altair into Mun orbit and perform a near-polar landing (+2)

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This looks really involved, and rather interesting. Unfortunately, having just finished your Duna Apollo Style Challenge I don't think I'll be starting something this ambitious just yet. But I'm going to be keeping tabs on this. I might have a go later on when I have some free time.

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Made some minor rules tweaks and added new ways to earn points:

Design:

  • Outpost Variant: Develop a version of the Altair that lands robotically and does not return from Munar surface but has enough room for 1.5 times your Altair landing crew size (round up). Eg. If your Altair lander seats 4, the Outpost Variant should have pressurized seats for 6. If your Altair lander seat 5, your Outpost Variant should seat 8 (+2)
  • Pressurized rover: Develop a rover that can seat at least two crew in a pressurized pod. This rover can be delivered with a crewed or uncrewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant lander or a specialized Cargo Altair that brings only the rover (+2)

Mission:

  • Munar Outpost: Using at least one crewed Altair lander, an Outpost Variant and a pressurized rover, set up a Munar Outpost. The Outpost Variant can join a crewed Altair already on the Mun or can be part of a separate Altair/Outpost Variant mission to another location (+5)

Science:

  • Advanced Technology Large-Aperture Space Telescope: Using an Ares V/EDS, deploy a science package to Kerbol synchronous orbit (Pe and Ap at 1 508 045.29 km +/- 1000km) (+2)
  • Altair descent stage science: +1 for each science-equipped Altair landed on Mun (maximum +3)
  • Kerbin Return Vehicle: Pre-landed Kerbin return vehicle on the Duna mission contains a science package (+1)
  • Duna Lander: Lander on the Duna mission contains a science package (+1)

Rules

  • Where "pressurized" is stated, this means any command pod and not the open-air command seat, although seats may be present in addition to the command pod(s).
  • Science points require at least one Science part, one communication part, and a probecore and remains powered.

These new points and the minor tweaks should be the end of the changes to this challenge, but I'm open to suggestions. :wink:

Edited by Death Engineering

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DeathEngineering, allow me to state how much I love your challenges. I am currently working on your Duna Apollo Style challenge (yes, I know it's been months!) and I'm almost done. Now there's this? And 0.22 is coming out soon? There's just so much to do in KSP right now! :)

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@Death Engineering:

No..., not yet sadly (Ares I is not capable of Duna and my Space Launch System launched to orbit for the first time yesterday). That said, I will definitely do a Duna mission using my SLS, which is capable of that (carrying the crew on the Orion Vehicle and carrying the Eagle lander behind it). Tonight, I will have LKO testing of the Earth Departure Stage, Eagle and Orion including docking, etc... and maybe a mun flyby. I'll post some pictures of that as well later on.

For now I only have pics of a flight of Ares I (sadly not a picture of Orions solar panels since I lost them :P during the flight somehow...

DP5IGJS.png

O5kudxG.png

KQUFS4l.png

tPpT0kV.png

4IS5mGX.png

mEC6QSG.png

PS: My Orion has the cross-like solar panel arrangement from the ATV, like the current SLS-Orion MPCV has.

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About ready to begin, I think. One quicky question:

cCEl9HF.png

qZOHNkz.png

This is my Mir replica in my main save game. At the moment she's cruising in the 100x100 orbit range; if I can get her up to 120x120 and stick a quad of Kerbals aboard, may I use my main save game instead of the pre-saved file? Added a special module this evening to include a pair of clampotrons and juniors.

There's already an escape craft docked with one of the seniors - that's where all the engines and chutes are coming from. It's only designed for one Kerbal, so I'd have to switch it out but it might be useful for changing my orbit.

Edited by capi3101

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Looks like a couple of good tests there. Are those the first points of the challenge? If I'm reading it right, you got:

Crew Launch Vehicle (Ares I)

•Two stage rocket to LKO (+2)

Crew Vehicle (Orion)

•Supports at least 4 crew (+4)

Research and Development

•Launch a boilerplate Orion capsule/EDS on suborbital flight using Ares I (+1)

•Perform an abort and recovery (LES) of an un-Kerballed Orion capsule using the Launch Escape System, while first stage is firing (+1)

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This is my Mir replica in my main save game. At the moment she's cruising in the 100x100 orbit range; if I can get her up to 120x120 and stick a quad of Kerbals aboard, may I use my main save game instead of the pre-saved file? Added a special module this evening to include a pair of clampotrons and juniors.

That's totally checked out to use. I probably won't use the "Kerbin 1" station as it has more parts than I'd like, but I had to offer at least two of every docking port.

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Another question - may I use the same Altair design for landing on Duna as I do for landing on Mun, or do they have to be distinct craft?

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Death engineering. I hope you do know that obama stopped constellation and nasa from lifting humans into space.

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Another question - may I use the same Altair design for landing on Duna as I do for landing on Mun, or do they have to be distinct craft?

Well, I intentionally left the Duna rules fuzzy on that part. The "Mars Direct" approach was to send down a return to orbit lander and then land a habitat near the return-vehicle. The lander would then remain on the surface as a reusable outpost and the crew would use the return-vehicle to get back to orbit (or even to Earth as a direct-ascent from Mars in some things I read). However, the Mars Direct plans are not the only way to do this mission. NASA had numerous plans to do Mars missions including simple flybys, which earns points as well: "At least 4 Kerbals pass withing 5000km of Duna (+2)".

Short answer: Using your Altair craft would be totally fine and you if you choose to work toward the points for "Land an un-Kerballed Kerbin Return Vehicle on Duna. Can be either Duna-Kerbin direct ascent capable or dock with an orbiting Duna-Kerbin return stage (+4)", then just consider that a backup plan.

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Death engineering. I hope you do know that obama stopped constellation and nasa from lifting humans into space.

What are you talking about? It's January 2008 and the election isn't for another 10 months. I doubt Obama will get elected, though, as he'll probably cause the debt ceiling to go up and the government to shut down.

Don't worry...

"There is no sign on the horizon of any kind of global financial meltdown that might impinge upon the development of the Constellation space program, in any way, whatsoever."

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Short answer: Using your Altair craft would be totally fine and you if you choose to work toward the points for "Land an un-Kerballed Kerbin Return Vehicle on Duna. Can be either Duna-Kerbin direct ascent capable or dock with an orbiting Duna-Kerbin return stage (+4)", then just consider that a backup plan.

Alright, thanks. I need to start posting pics of my hardware already...of course, that means I need to get it off of paper and actually into the game. Something for the weekend with any luck.

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Alright, thanks. I need to start posting pics of my hardware already...of course, that means I need to get it off of paper and actually into the game. Something for the weekend with any luck.

Yeah lets have a look. I don't recall the exact mass, but my Altair Mun lander prototype is crazy big. Did a drop-test last night to check that it can handle rough landings and its easily four times bigger than my Orion. Time for refinements...

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Same here (on paper); about three times heavier than the Block II, about four times heavier than the Block I. Designing my Ares V was a nightmare and I'm still not sure I can actually build the thing. KSP's SRBs suck; I'll say it though I think most folks here already take that as a given.

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Same here (on paper); about three times heavier than the Block II, about four times heavier than the Block I. Designing my Ares V was a nightmare and I'm still not sure I can actually build the thing. KSP's SRBs suck; I'll say it though I think most folks here already take that as a given.

Just add more of them.. I have 12 SRB's on my first stage, six on each side :D

edit: and sometimes this happens

gZQj5THl.png

Edited by Death Engineering
screen kap

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