Milestone Reached - 0.23 is Now in Experimentals Phase

[Espresso]

I must say that SQUAD is really setting the standard for game development. You guys do an amazing job!

Best money spent in a game in my entire life.

Agreed. Squad fix bugs and release updates so speedily. All I'll say is that compared to EA, they are way higher on my Game Dev Teams To Respect List.

Bought Battlefield 4 and can't play it because of a crash every time I try to load a level. Thanks EA, thank you very much. But in all seriousness, Squad, you are doing a fantastic job, and the money spent on KSP was the best $20 I have ever spent.

Edited December 8, 2013 by Espresso
Bad Grammars

[Sandworm]

Agreed. Squad fix bugs and release updates so speedily. All I'll say is that compared to EA, they are way higher on my Game Dev Teams To Respect List.

Bought Battlefield 4 and can't play it because of a crash every time I try to load a level. Thanks EA, thank you very much. But in all seriousness, Squad, you are doing a fantastic job, and the money spent on KSP was the best $20 I have ever spent.

What? There are basic bugs, not missing features but real bugs, that have gone untouched through several revisions. The errors in the Linux executable top my list. They are easy enough to fix by hand, but why should users have to bother? Then come the graphical errors, such as how planets with oceans are double rendered. Landing legs clipping though terrain, misplaced easter eggs (ie floating/sinking monuments) ... the list is not short. Squad seems focused on new features, leaving the little details for later. That is not a healthy strategy.

Of course there is always an excuse, such as saying that the monuments will be fixed once the planet textures are redone, but those wear thin fast.

[NQMT]

I bought Minecraft for $20, played it for ages, then discovered KSP.

What is Minecraft, anyway? I've forgotten...

[KasperVld]

Sandworm, you shouldn't forget that KSP is still in Alpha, and is by no means a finished product. Bugs are to be expected

[Jasmir]

Sandworm, you shouldn't forget that KSP is still in Alpha, and is by no means a finished product. Bugs are to be expected

Then i have to blame Squad for having much less bugs in KSP than much other "finished and well tested" software...

[Rosarium]

this upgrade will be the most revolutionary one since 0.17. Tweakables feature is something that will change radically the way to build spacecrafts. I have ready on my hangars many SSTO and stations propotypes to be realesed once i get my hands on 0.23. Tweakables guys Tweakables...

[czokletmuss]

What's so revolutionary about them?

[Superfluous J]

What's so revolutionary about them?

It exponentially increases the number of parts you have for your ship.

[czokletmuss]

How? Maybe I don't get something but from what I know it appears that you may just get extra functionality like start with empty fuel tanks.

[Superfluous J]

How? Maybe I don't get something but from what I know it appears that you may just get extra functionality like start with empty fuel tanks.

Well, that's double the number of fuel tanks we have. And we have never, ever had an empty fuel tank in stock so we now have a whole class of part we've never had before. And that's assuming you can only pick between full and empty.

Steerable landing gear is pretty big too, and again doubles the number of parts in that category. And who knows what kind of tweakables will be available for engines, pods, batteries, wings...

Not to mention just having the "tweakables" option for mods.

Yeah I think it's fair to call it revolutionary, in the context of the game.

[Monger]

Sandworm, you shouldn't forget that KSP is still in Alpha, and is by no means a finished product. Bugs are to be expected

Actually, I think the time where buggy prereleases were accepted as law of nature are over. Especially for indie publisher who need to release soon and often it makes sense to keep every release as stable as possible. This also avoids "technical debt".

But I think Squad is actually doing an ever increasing better job in this. Back before 0.20 it often took multiple releases to get serious bugs under control, and there were multiple patches needed until the release became barely stable. Today each release has a quite high quality. There are still things that could work out better, but compared to many other companies (and honestly especially compared to the early days of KSP) Squad is doing an amazing job regarding quality.

[Sandworm]

Sandworm, you shouldn't forget that KSP is still in Alpha, and is by no means a finished product. Bugs are to be expected

Alpha is a word, not a reality. Each developer does and says whatever they want. KSP has aspects of "alpha" status (ie not feature complete) but has many more aspects belonging to the beta or release paradigm. Closed beta tests --> beta. Tease statements from developers regarding new features --> beta. Refusal to share development builds --> beta. Media teams --> definitely a characteristic of a game in "release" mode. Short-term sales --> release.

The word alpha should not be used as a crutch to doff criticism.

[z26]

Alpha is a word, not a reality. Each developer does and says whatever they want. KSP has aspects of "alpha" status (ie not feature complete) but has many more aspects belonging to the beta or release paradigm. Closed beta tests --> beta. Tease statements from developers regarding new features --> beta. Refusal to share development builds --> beta. Media teams --> definitely a characteristic of a game in "release" mode. Short-term sales --> release.

The word alpha should not be used as a crutch to doff criticism.

Well, yes and no...

If ksp was completely free, they could allow themselves to release stuff as buggy as they would like without anyone really having the right to complain about anything... if you get free stuff, you just shut up and appreciate what you have. However, ksp isn't free, making the matter a bit more complex. While making an official release riddled with bug is a big no-no, nothing's wrong with a pre-release, as long as it's clearly advertised as such.

After all, i don't see what's so worse in having, let's say, a preview of a new release january 15, then the full release the 30rd vs just getting it the 30rd directly.

[Kialar]

If I had a wish, I would beg for doing this alpha-beta-dev build-quality-discussion in the general discussion formus.

Every time, I have a look in the forums, I think there is something new about the experimentals, but it is ranting and whining about felt quality of a PLAYABLE, GOOD, LOVELY, GREAT GAME.

[Cdodders]

I feel the need, the need, for moar stuff

[Lheim]

There is a technical definition of alpha, beta, etc.

Alpha is a game that has major features missing in action.

Beta is a game where the major features are in but tweaking and tuning and bugfixing remains to be done.

[Cdodders]

We need Pizza delivery ships, I have a Vostok as a kind of delivery scooter lol

[Murph]

There is a technical definition of alpha, beta, etc.

Alpha is a game that has major features missing in action.

Beta is a game where the major features are in but tweaking and tuning and bugfixing remains to be done.

Experimental, alpha, beta, RC, release, etc are whatever the developers want them to be. There is no universally accepted definition of them, just conventional common usage which can include many shades of grey. To me, KSP is alpha, and will be for quite some time, but it's a quite high-quality alpha.

Alphas can be feature-complete, but needing a lot of polish and fixing. Betas can be feature-incomplete, but getting close to something which could be a product. It's up to the developers of each project to choose the label they feel best applies at any given time.

[BubbaWilkins]

Well, that's double the number of fuel tanks we have. And we have never, ever had an empty fuel tank in stock so we now have a whole class of part we've never had before. And that's assuming you can only pick between full and empty.

Steerable landing gear is pretty big too, and again doubles the number of parts in that category. And who knows what kind of tweakables will be available for engines, pods, batteries, wings...

Not to mention just having the "tweakables" option for mods.

Yeah I think it's fair to call it revolutionary, in the context of the game.

I hate to burst your bubble and all, but many mod parts already have tweekable states and have for some time. Steering gear, open/close bay doors at start, etc.

We've also had "empty tanks" in the form of empty fuselage sections as well, so no real gain there either in most cases. I can see in a rare case that launching with an empty tank might be attractive or possible changing the ratio of oxidezer and fuel to match an engine's consumption. But all of these aspects still only represent minor improvements in functionality. Nice to have, but hardly "revolutionary".

I'm more interested in the Science tracking improvements and hope that they include a bit of a discovery aspect. Such as scanning a planet and learning "The planet appears to have 7 biomes, we should get samples from the following biome locations.

[czokletmuss]

I hope that Duna and Minmus will get biomes - after Mun and, well, Kerbin these two are probably the most popular targets for manned missions.

[UH60guy]

We've also had "empty tanks" in the form of empty fuselage sections as well, so no real gain there either in most cases. I can see in a rare case that launching with an empty tank might be attractive or possible changing the ratio of oxidezer and fuel to match an engine's consumption. But all of these aspects still only represent minor improvements in functionality. Nice to have, but hardly "revolutionary"

Well, it is highly useful to be able to launch empty tanks- I made an interplanetary cruise stage that had a central orange tank and 6 radially mounted orange tanks. I could have built it in orbit, but building the cluster on the ground really let me strut it up well and make it rigid. All that fuel was too much mass to get into orbit, so since launching them empty (to fill up in space with multiple shipments) wasn't an option, I had to resort to adding extra engine stages just to burn all the fuel before launch. Tweakable fuel levels would have saved me on the part and complexity count, as well as 5 minutes or so real time waiting for the tanks to drain before I could launch them.

I for one am extremely happy with being able to launch empty "real" tanks, not just the structural small one.

[GusTurbo]

I'm looking forward to the possibility of empty tanks because it essentially means more structural parts, and I love structural parts. They allow for more interesting aesthetic designs.

[Superfluous J]

I hate to burst your bubble and all, but many mod parts already have tweekable states and have for some time. Steering gear, open/close bay doors at start, etc.

That doesn't burst my bubble at all. We're discussing stock parts. I want KAS in the stock game, and the fact that it exists as a mod doesn't change that desire.

Maybe I have a lower set of requirements for "revolutionary." If a new game (or in this case building) mechanic comes in and allows for an unknown number of subsequent changes to go from difficult to laughably simple, that counts for me.

[Rosarium]

today is empty tanks... tomorrow will be fill plane parts with oxidier, i say tweakables is a whole new sector, it will give to a single part a set of customizations, that will bring to different assets to the same craft, and i'm pretty sure tweakables will be amplified in the future. It's a revolutionary tool. I'm happy you had already tried it with the mod... but i remember when HORDA was the only way to dock.... but once the dock gone vanilla... well all another story...

[CaptainArchmage]

From the last dev stream, Minmus will be getting biomes. I don't know about Duna or Eve though.

I think the science improvements will be very important, since with transferring data it will be reasonable to use multiple spacecraft on a mission once more. We will also have good reasons to build bases on other planets.