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Universal Storage 1.4.0.0 (For KSP 1.4.x) 13th March 2018


Paul Kingtiger

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Quick question- if I change around the oxygen values in your resource config to match TAC's, would that break anything? I'm assuming it will mess with your intended efficiency of the fuel cell, but otherwise- is there anything else I need to worry about?

As to why I'm interested- Having both TAC and your oxygen tanks on the same vessel makes weird things happen to the life-support calculations...

I did some cfg edits to make some of the wedges into TAC containers, and if I recall correctly the oxygen resource he defined uses exactly the same values as TAC's. The only real difference (which makes sense to me, based on the description text) is that the oxygen in his wedges is stored under 4x pressure, so it has higher capacity than you'd expect.

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Quick question- if I change around the oxygen values in your resource config to match TAC's, would that break anything? I'm assuming it will mess with your intended efficiency of the fuel cell, but otherwise- is there anything else I need to worry about?

As to why I'm interested- Having both TAC and your oxygen tanks on the same vessel makes weird things happen to the life-support calculations...

Currently TAC uses 1 day's supply as the Units. We use Liters (as a gas). So if you use our parts with TAC you'll have a stupidly large amount of oxygen.

If you change the amounts then the fuel cell will be unbalanced, however you can do the following.

Humans use 550 liters of oxygen a day, so if you divide the amount of oxygen by 550 you'll have TAC amounts. You'll also have to divide the amount of oxygen the fuel cell uses by 550 to balance that.

We're not doing any of this in the mod yet because TAC are likely to change to Liters soon and we're waiting for them to decide what to do before we match.

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I did some cfg edits to make some of the wedges into TAC containers, and if I recall correctly the oxygen resource he defined uses exactly the same values as TAC's. The only real difference (which makes sense to me, based on the description text) is that the oxygen in his wedges is stored under 4x pressure, so it has higher capacity than you'd expect.

From each mod's "resource" config:

TAC


{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0004290144
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

US


{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0000014290
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

Also what Paul said.

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Currently TAC uses 1 day's supply as the Units. We use Liters (as a gas). So if you use our parts with TAC you'll have a stupidly large amount of oxygen.

If you change the amounts then the fuel cell will be unbalanced, however you can do the following.

Humans use 550 liters of oxygen a day, so if you divide the amount of oxygen by 550 you'll have TAC amounts. You'll also have to divide the amount of oxygen the fuel cell uses by 550 to balance that.

We're not doing any of this in the mod yet because TAC are likely to change to Liters soon and we're waiting for them to decide what to do before we match.

Should a Kerbal which is really only about half the size of a human use human values for supplies?

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Not at the moment, but if we work out how to modify mass without touching resource quantities, we could :)

Why not make it a resource, then? If it's possible to make a hidden resource. Although with the KSP Alternate Resource Panel you would be able to hide it permanently so that it doesn't clutter things up.

Create a resource "WedgeHatch" that has a pretty high density, and has one capacity per wedge. Toggling the hatch covers off removes the resource. Another option might be to look into borrowing the plugin from the test weight mod that allows for tweakable mass.

Having the hatches take up weight would be the main factor for going without them, at least for me.

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From each mod's "resource" config:

TAC


{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0004290144
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

US


{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0000014290
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

Also what Paul said.

Ah, well the "resource" configs in the ones that I have are:

TAC

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0000014290
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true

US

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Oxygen
density = 0.0000014290
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

and it turns out that is because I had forgotten that I had already converted the TAC resources to use liters (as you so politely mentioned, what Paul said) as described in the TAC thread in THIS POST. Apparently I did not recall correctly, and in the interest of not confusing people I will henceforth refrain from trying to be of help.

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Why not make it a resource, then? If it's possible to make a hidden resource. Although with the KSP Alternate Resource Panel you would be able to hide it permanently so that it doesn't clutter things up.

Create a resource "WedgeHatch" that has a pretty high density, and has one capacity per wedge. Toggling the hatch covers off removes the resource. Another option might be to look into borrowing the plugin from the test weight mod that allows for tweakable mass.

Having the hatches take up weight would be the main factor for going without them, at least for me.

Hmm, but is it possible to assign the amount of this 'Hatch\StructureResource' to automatically change with an animation? Cause that's essentially what the structure disappearing is - an animation that scales the mesh down to 0%. Totally out of my comfort zone, I wouldn't know where to start in the .cfg. It could work if you did it manually with the tweakable system, and just remove the mass by sliding the amount to nil after you've turned off the structure - but that could get tedious. And people could just cheat and keep the structures and remove all the weight.

I mean, everything is pretty lightweight anyway, and wedges with any significant weight would be 99% resources (water, food, or equipment). It'd be a marginal change if we did implement it :\

Edited by Daishi
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I never understood why we get solar panels so late in the game. I its really hard to manage those few units of electric charge. With this the game is allot cooler. Its not OP, we have to manage our electric charge, but we don't end dead in space!

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I never understood why we get solar panels so late in the game. I its really hard to manage those few units of electric charge. With this the game is allot cooler. Its not OP, we have to manage our electric charge, but we don't end dead in space!

Cheers, and yeah i reckon the stock game should really invest in a fuel cell sometime. They're so neat - especially considering RTGs are a little dangerous for crewed flights.

Almost finished the Sabatier equipment, ECLSS release (and the impending TAC release) is upon us! :)

Edited by Daishi
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Universal Storage 0.6 is released!

This version introduces the ECLSS pack with two new parts for your life support needs!

In addition the fuel cell pack is now called the Core Pack, and also includes some new parts, including the Elektron water electrolyzer!

We also have a PartCatalog pack which adds a Universal Storage tab to for those using the Part Catalog mod.

Finally we have a number of part improvements and balancing changes based on player feedback.

This shouldn't break your saves (it didn't break mine) but as always make a backup of your save file just in case.

For more information and downloads check out the Universal Storage website at http://www.kingtiger.co.uk/kingtiger/wordpress/universal-storage/

And be sure to check out the new mod video which highlights some of the new features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMaX9EjOPsw

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These models are amazing. Im dying to utilize them. I must ask though.. do people still use ECLSS? last I used that mod it possessed a few crippling bugs and now that asmi is on hiatus for the time being its not being updated.. so whats the deal with ECLSS? Because up until now ive been waiting on the TAC part of this mod to be released before incorporating a life support system into my playthrough.

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so whats the deal with ECLSS?

Basically fewer parts. TAC requires all the parts in the ECLSS pack plus a few more, so as Daishi creates the part models we have everything we need for ECLSS before TAC.

In addition the TAC devs are in the process of updating their mod to use a new unit size (probably liters) and they need to finish that before we can balance our mod to match (I don't want to spend time balancing Universal Storage for the current TAC units only to have them change it a week later).

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Just downloaded the newest release and watched the video, very very awesome job. Textures look great and the increased functionality is great! Can't wait to see the rest of the work being done, especially the TAC update when it happens. :)

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I ran into a problem.

Your website says the ECLSS pack is best with the rebalancer mod. However the link to the mod on your page is dead. While I found the mod at spaceport, instead of including the instructions in the download or the spaceport page, the instructions direct me to a page on your website, but that link is also dead.

So how do I install the rebalancer mod?

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Sorry about that. The page and the download is now working.

http://www.kingtiger.co.uk/kingtiger/wordpress/eclss-rebalancer/

Might be a good idea to have a direct link to the download on the OP, rather than to have to go to a separate site. I get the idea you want to have your own thing, but from a product stand point, ease of access generally means better... um... sales, downloads in this case...

Also a change log in the OP. That's pretty much a must-have. As well as version numbering in the title (and maybe last date of update) so people can easily figure out whether there's been an update or not.

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I run ECLSS and I have been watching this mod with some eagerness, the parts look awesome and I am looking forward to using them.

I just downloaded the core+ECLSS parts and I have noticed something quite strange, you have managed to pack 46,000 units of oxygen into a part weighing 0.083 (tonnes probably) that will fit 4 onto a 1.25m stack. The official ECLSS 2.5m stack part (there is no 1.25m) fits 1,300 units, won't this mean that I only ever need to fit one of these new mega containers onto any rocket and never have to worry about breathing again?

Tell me I am missing something or I will have to mod your parts down to more sensible values to put some difficulty back in.

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The problem is actually the balance of the original ECLSS parts. The capacities of the new parts are based on real world physics. For example the Oxygen wedge contains 4 tanks, each with a capacity of 14.5 liters.

But liquid oxygen is 798 times as dense as gas oxygen at room temperature, so you can fit 798 * 14.5 *4 liters of breathable O2 in each wedge. That gives you the 46000 figure.

We've used this balance system for all the parts, by measuring the tanks in the models then looking how much the resource can be compressed. Hydrogen is about the same as Oxygen, but liquid CO2 is only 389 times as dense. Water, can't be compressed at all, so the capacity is tiny in comparison. Also keep in mind that the weight of the part doesn't include the weight of the resource contained.

So the part capacities are as sensible as it gets, however: One option to increase the difficulty would be the assume Kerbals can't liquify Oxygen or Hydrogen and so reduce the capacities to that of a compressed gas. For example, O2 tanks used in the medical industry compress their contents by 85 times, giving much lower capacities than with LOX and LH. I might create a module manager file to do that (I would love if you could change parts with modulemanager files according to tech level unlocks).

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Basically fewer parts. TAC requires all the parts in the ECLSS pack plus a few more, so as Daishi creates the part models we have everything we need for ECLSS before TAC.

In addition the TAC devs are in the process of updating their mod to use a new unit size (probably liters) and they need to finish that before we can balance our mod to match (I don't want to spend time balancing Universal Storage for the current TAC units only to have them change it a week later).

Say it isn't so. Days are so much easier to use. They're actually going to add more work for us to do? Conversions that we'll all probably get wrong at least once in a while? Yay.

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The problem is actually the balance of the original ECLSS parts. The capacities of the new parts are based on real world physics. For example the Oxygen wedge contains 4 tanks, each with a capacity of 14.5 liters.

But liquid oxygen is 798 times as dense as gas oxygen at room temperature, so you can fit 798 * 14.5 *4 liters of breathable O2 in each wedge. That gives you the 46000 figure.

We've used this balance system for all the parts, by measuring the tanks in the models then looking how much the resource can be compressed. Hydrogen is about the same as Oxygen, but liquid CO2 is only 389 times as dense. Water, can't be compressed at all, so the capacity is tiny in comparison. Also keep in mind that the weight of the part doesn't include the weight of the resource contained.

So the part capacities are as sensible as it gets, however: One option to increase the difficulty would be the assume Kerbals can't liquify Oxygen or Hydrogen and so reduce the capacities to that of a compressed gas. For example, O2 tanks used in the medical industry compress their contents by 85 times, giving much lower capacities than with LOX and LH. I might create a module manager file to do that (I would love if you could change parts with modulemanager files according to tech level unlocks).

I just had a little comparison, I had already modded the ECLSS default values myself (halved kerbal consumption of o2) as well as cloning and resizing a few of the modules (1.25m and 3.75m O2 tanks, with appropriate changes to mass and capacity).

I put a single 1300unit o2 tank on a capsule (with its own 400 supply) and I get about 7 days of life support.

I put a single quad adaptor with 4 o2 segments under the same capsule and I get 674 days of support for a whole 0.15 tonnes added mass.

I am not complaining at your science, you cant argue with that, it just seems ... too good :) 650kg (4 o2 wedges on a quad core) and I have no more o2 problems.

Changing the stats of modules based on tech level? I'm sure it is possible, take a look at KSP Interstellar, it has an upgrades feature which drastically improves the efficiency and outputs of many different reactors, engines etc based on tech tree progression. I am sure increasing the capacity of o2 tanks should be 'simples' in comparison.

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Question. I just installed the new version of core and ELCSS packs. When I right click the wedges in the VAB I get an option to open the hatch, and if I click that the hatch opens, but I don't get an option to remove the structure. Is this something to do with having Firespitter installed or ?

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Question. I just installed the new version of core and ELCSS packs. When I right click the wedges in the VAB I get an option to open the hatch, and if I click that the hatch opens, but I don't get an option to remove the structure. Is this something to do with having Firespitter installed or ?

Nope it was a bug in the part.cfg file. I've fixed it and uploaded version 0.61 (Core and ECLSS packs only).

Download and overwrite to fix.

http://www.kingtiger.co.uk/kingtiger/wordpress/universal-storage/

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