NathanKell

Realism Overhaul Discussion Thread

1506 posts in this topic

10 minutes ago, Wisq said:

Are we looking at a bug in CKAN here … ?  But I don't think any of those mods would have affected my heat issues.

It seems to me that your heat load problem sounds a lot like when I played RSS without RO (and thus default thermal settings), but if you got the entire RO bundle this is probably not the case then. Just a reminder that the standard MK1 capsule has a LEO-rated heat shield built-in with RO, and both MK1 and MK2 capsules should survive a low orbit reentry WITH EASE especially if you do a ballistic (non-lifting) reentry: they probably would survive a negative perigee if you have them plunges into the atmosphere steeply and decelerate rapidly. So what I am saying is no, there's definitely something wrong going on with your install. CKAN is unlikely to have a lot to do with it though...

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16 minutes ago, wb99999999 said:

It seems to me that your heat load problem sounds a lot like when I played RSS without RO (and thus default thermal settings), but if you got the entire RO bundle this is probably not the case then. Just a reminder that the standard MK1 capsule has a LEO-rated heat shield built-in with RO, and both MK1 and MK2 capsules should survive a low orbit reentry WITH EASE especially if you do a ballistic (non-lifting) reentry: they probably would survive a negative perigee if you have them plunges into the atmosphere steeply and decelerate rapidly. So what I am saying is no, there's definitely something wrong going on with your install. CKAN is unlikely to have a lot to do with it though...

Well that's interesting!  I can indeed land a Mk1 pod with an Mk16 parachute in a stock install with just RP-0 installed, perigee 50km, and only use 50/200 ablator.  Furthermore, it's a lot faster to load and a lot more responsive, and also, the atmosphere effects (red glow etc.) don't start until much later — well below 70km, where my parachute was catching fire and exploding last time.

There's definitely something messed up in my old install.  Going to start fresh and install my old mod list slowly to figure out what's going on.  Thanks.

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Okay, I tracked it down!  It's the weirdest thing ever, and it's 100% my fault, sorry. :)

Basically: Since I don't want Steam doing anything stupid re: auto-updating my Kerbal — and because I want to have a fresh Kerbal to copy for mod testing — I don't actually run it out of the SteamApps directory.  Instead, I copy it to a different directory — e.g. c:\games\ksp\1.2.2 — and run it there.

BUT, I do like having Steam say that I'm playing it, and tracking my hours, and the in-game overlay, and etc etc.  So I set the Steam app launch options to

"c:\games\ksp\1.2.2\KSP_x64.exe" %command%

which makes it run that instead.  And everything seemed fine!  However, it's clearly NOT fine, because if I run Kerbal via Steam, I get all these bugs, but if I run it via CKAN, I don't get the bugs.  Oops.

My hypothesis was that Steam was running the correct EXE file, but not changing the working directory before it ran it.  (I'm frankly surprised this actually worked!)  Presumably, most mods would read their data files based on the location of the EXE — probably using API functions provided by KSP? — but some would try to read and write directly to the working directory, and were thus using stock data (or no data) instead of correct data.

The quick and dirty solution to test this (without moving anything and messing with the experiment) was to create a KSP..BAT file that would CD to the correct directory and run KSP, and see what happens when Steam runs that instead.  Lo and behold, I was able to do reentry once I set that up!

Anyway, sorry for the confusion here.  I'm going to rebuild my install because it's probably been pretty pooched by this abuse on my part, but I should hopefully be able to keep using my campaign and .craft files. I'll have to go see if my cryogenic tanks issue is fixed too. :)

Edited by Wisq

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21 hours ago, Wisq said:

So I'm having some serious heat issues:

1: If I have any cryogenic fuels on board, heat goes nuts as soon as I cross from 100x to 1000x time warp.  I understand that this is when Kerbal goes from "simulation mode" to "analytical mode" as far as heat is concerned, so I'm assuming this is the cause.  Now, I fully understand that there's boil-off of cryogenic fuels, but the tanks aren't actually the problem — what happens is, other components on my ship start overheating and exploding, almost always starting with my communication antennae (I think because they have the lowest heat tolerance?).

2: I can't survive reentry to save my life.  I've tried what ought to be the absolute gentlest reentry possible — starting from a circular orbit just above the atmosphere (140.1km) and then dropping my perigee to some reasonable number (generally in the 90km to 110km range).  Every time, what happens is, my parachute (Mk16) overheats and explodes first, and then my capsule next.  If I put the lunar-rated 2m heat shield on it, then the capsule survives okay, but the parachute still burns up, so it's game over for the capsule anyway.

Given that these bugs both involve heat (albeit different issues in different modes), I'm wondering if I've got some mess-up in that area?

I've got RP-0 and all dependencies and recommendations installed, except TestFlight.  I've also got a few extra mods on top of that, but none of them should be touching heat.  If those are the suspected cause, I can try a fresh install plus RP-0, but I'm hoping this is a known issue and/or I'm just doing something wrong.

There is a realfuels fix for exploding fuel tanks in dev.  https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/commit/f4156841a586b84601503883116d51ed900d0e2f  You may want to run with cheat (ignore max temp) on while changing craft, at least to ones that have cryofuels

Also a fix for excessive thermal transfer from skin in the RO master. NK made a commit to fix it https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/dc22044a2071de0a85fb4084fcdfd216d16c612c 

if you run using the latest master this is included. (not in CKAN release yet)

Edited by Bornholio

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On 25/06/2017 at 0:00 PM, Bornholio said:

There is a realfuels fix for exploding fuel tanks in dev.  https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/commit/f4156841a586b84601503883116d51ed900d0e2f  You may want to run with cheat (ignore max temp) on while changing craft, at least to ones that have cryofuels

Also a fix for excessive thermal transfer from skin in the RO master. NK made a commit to fix it https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/dc22044a2071de0a85fb4084fcdfd216d16c612c 

if you run using the latest master this is included. (not in CKAN release yet)

I'm pretty sure the tank heat issue was also just a symptom of my botched way of running Kerbal in Steam.

I'll be back here if that's not the case — but so far, all my tests seem to indicate everything is fine now, thanks.

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30 minutes ago, Wisq said:

I'm pretty sure the tank heat issue was also just a symptom of my botched way of running Kerbal in Steam.

I'll be back here if that's not the case — but so far, all my tests seem to indicate everything is fine now, thanks.

Nah, we have duplicated the issue with cryofuels several times, but thats not to say you didn't have some effect from your case.

Glad to hear your solution gave you relief.  Tweaking the thermal system is one of the more complex parts of modding for realism in general.

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