How are we to get to Mars?

[VincentMcConnell]

So it\'s no secret that someday, this game will include the solar system. With some simple orbital mechanics, most of us know how to get to the mun and land on it. While drawing up diagrams on how I thought I might make it to Mars, I realized that it will be more difficult than previously believed.

The mun orbits Kerbin. You can make Trans-Lunar Injection from just about anywhere on Kerbin, as long as the Mun is in the right spot, but with Mars, this will NOT be the case. The situation will be much different, in the sense that Mars will be orbiting Kerbol, not Kerbin. We have probably about a 100 degree wedge in which Mars will even be in an okay place to shot for it. I\'d have to measure the exact orbit, and of course, I can\'t, because they game doesn\'t have Mars yet.

I have a couple of ideas that may work and I wanted to get some feedback.

I have decided that the best way to treat the Martian missions will be like a rendezvous situation! Really, how much different could it be than that? Think of it this way. Kerbol is Kerbin, Kerbin is our docking vehicle and Mars is our target vehicle. Our ship simply represents the transfer. I was thinking that we could use a parking orbit around Kerbin, wait until Mars is directly in front of us and shoot outward, away from Kerbin at around 20 degrees. Mars will orbit slower than the Mun so there will be times when Martian missions will be ideal -- when the two planets are almost lined up.

Of course, this does result in the question: How do we get back? I don\'t know. And that\'s what I\'m working on.

My second idea is slightly more dangerous.

It is to shoot straight away from Kerbin until we break into a Solar orbit. Then, from there, we use a Hohmann transfer to get our orbit around the Sun to be just a few hundred kilometers short of Mars\'s orbit and then wait several orbits until we meet up. This, of course, will take forever, and we\'d have to shoot at the right time to be closest to Mars.

If anyone thinks of any other methods, draws any diagrams etc. Please post here.

[Kosmo-not]

It is just like orbital rendezvous.

Waiting until the two planets are lined up with the sun is waiting too late. You need to do your transfer then the other planet reaches a certain angle with respect to a line drawn through Kerbin and tangent to Kerbin\'s orbit. This angle will not be 90°. We\'re talking about large distances here, not very short distances like 2 craft in Kerbin orbit.

[sting_auer]

Just add more boosters.

Duh

[VincentMcConnell]

It is just like orbital rendezvous.

Waiting until the two planets are lined up with the sun is waiting too late. You need to do your transfer then the other planet reaches a certain angle with respect to a line drawn through Kerbin and tangent to Kerbin\'s orbit. This angle will not be 90°. We\'re talking about large distances here, not very short distances like 2 craft in Kerbin orbit.

Yes, I know. My post specifies that we\'ll have to wait until they\'re almost lined up. The exact degree... I don\'t know, because Mars isn\'t in the game yet. To be honest, I\'m kind of waiting for Mars. KSP needs to have some more planets or it will continue to get more dull.

[TheProdigy]

Yeah, they say that they want to add more planets all at once. Which would be awesome!

But, even I my self am getting tired of getting only to the Mun. I think they should atleast add ONE more near by planet, until the release of the whole solar system. Just so that we have atleast some variety.

[VincentMcConnell]

Yeah, they say that they want to add more planets all at once. Which would be awesome!

But, even I my self am getting tired of getting only to the Mun. I think they should atleast add ONE more near by planet, until the release of the whole solar system. Just so that we have atleast some variety.

Exactly. That\'s how I feel. The Mun is great and all, and I\'ve landed countless times, but since 14.2 came out, I haven\'t landed on the Mun. Partly because I\'m not a fan of the new lunar surface up close, and partly because... Been there, done that.

[Kryten]

Yeah, they say that they want to add more planets all at once. Which would be awesome!

It\'s still up in the air somewhat, but this is probably no longer the plan: from the Dev chat thread;

[16:03] <@HarvesteR> well, yeah, I don\'t think we\'d be able to release the entire solar system in a single update

[16:03] <@HarvesteR> because our terrain system still has no support for things like gas giants, or ring systems

[16:03] <@HarvesteR> so we\'ll probably start with the rocky planets first

[Elude]

There would be a way to practice this is if you sent a space craft out beyond the planet and gave it its own orbit around the sun and then send out a second craft to attempt to chase after it lol. Granted though it\'d be a smaller target with no gravitational assist so it\'d be more then just practice but an overall harder goal hahah.

[PakledHostage]

The easiest way to do it is to depart Kerbin on a trajectory that results in an elliptical orbit with periapsis at Kerbin’s orbital radius and apoapsis at the target planet’s orbital radius at the time of rendezvous. It is even easier if the target planet is in a circular orbit and in the same plane as Kerbin.

For example:

Planet X is in a circular orbit 1.5 times the radius of Kerbin’s

Planet X therefore orbits Kerbol at 1.844 deg/day

An elliptical orbit with periapsis at d_kerbin and apoapsis at d_planetx has a period of 148.653 days. The trip from periapsis to apoapsis will take half that, or 74.327 days. Planet X will move 74.327 days x 1.844 deg/day = 137.1 degrees in that time.

If our hero’s make their escape burn from Kerbin when Planet X is 42.9 degrees ahead of Kerbin, they will reach their point of apoapsis at the same time as Planet X reaches that point. They’d need about 880 m/s excess velocity at Kerbin’s SOI to do this. The only tricky part is making your escape burn so that your velocity is in the correct direction when you exit Kerbin\'s SOI (I do this by timing my burn with reference to Kerbol\'s rise/set time, as seen from my parking orbit).

And if you time your burn so that you arrive at your apoapsis an hour or so before Planet X, it will catch up to you because you’ll be moving about 800 m/s slower than it at that point.

For a bit of practice with this stuff, consider trying BoolyBooly\'s Shoot for the Sun challenge. The principle is the same as what I\'ve described above, except you don\'t need to worry about timing your escape burn.

PH.

Edit: Added sentence about timing the escape burn relative to Kerol\'s rise/set time.

[MaxMurder]

Im sure we will be able to do it with a little kerbal inginuity. I have been often suprised at my capacity to preform a coplicated and dagerous space mission with the little insturmentation and feedback that KSP offers (when compared to irl). I was able to land on the mun after a couple tries, now i can practically do it blindfolded. I was able to meet up to ships in orbit and get them to touch on the first attempt (that didnt fail before orbit...). In ksp: where there is a will there is a way. Im sure it will be a challange but i dont doubt that we will be able to get to the other planets once they make it in.

[Cooly568]

Meh, my strategy is build a rocket with 50 boosters! XD

[Tim_Barrett]

For a large payload, I would simple build some sort of superstructer in space.

[bitbucket_]

The easiest way to do it is to depart Kerbin on a trajectory that results in an elliptical orbit with periapsis at Kerbin’s orbital radius and apoapsis at the target planet’s orbital radius at the time of rendezvous. It is even easier if the target planet is in a circular orbit and in the same plane as Kerbin.

What he said. Basically, to get there and get back with the least amount of fuel, you\'re going to have to wait for a launch window, recurring at the length of the synodic period depending on the orbit of the other planet. The optimum timing and positioning will, of course, depend on what orbits the dev team gives them.

The formula for determining the synodic period between any two planets is:

S = 1/(1/P-1/Q)

where P and Q are the orbital periods (in days) of the two planets, P being the inner planet.

Of course, I figure most people will take the Jeb approach and just stick so many boosters on their ship they can more or less straightline it in a few days\' mission time.

[Overlag]

I have been building landers already, and pre testing them on Kerbin. Im totally guessing, but the planet will probably mirror mars slightly, so a thinner atmosphere and lower gravity, so my designs may be overkill. Basically i have a rocket thats strong enough to make orbit from Kerbin, which i GUESS could be enough to lift off from a small planet and back to Kerbin. Then, i have multiple parachutes to get it slowed down before using power to softly land it.

Testing this on Kerbin is funny though, due to the weight of all that fuel, 8 parachutes is only just enough to slow it down while 2/3\'s power is working to stop it blowing up on touchdown. Getting 'home' is another matter totally though. Cant wait for it, PRE testing is whats keeping me going at the moment

[marko dash]

we will have docking and fuel transfer before new planets, so put up a few fuel depots at the various lagrange points and do a transfer burn from kerbol orbit.

[Kosmo-not]

we will have docking and fuel transfer before new planets, so put up a few fuel depots at the various lagrange points and do a transfer burn from kerbol orbit.

Good luck with the lagrange points. There are none.

[samstarman5]

It\'s already been stated that there will be more planets added to the system, and they will be added all at once. Once the coding is done to allow travel to other planets as well as for the other planets, there won\'t be a silly need to just add one while the others are getting done. It will get done.

You should also realize, that even with KSP\'s crazy SOI mechanics where the worlds just don\'t bother continuing gravitational influence once you are in another world\'s SOI, the physics still work close enough to real life physics to where you can just follow how NASA and such does it to send a probe to Mars. Using the Mun for some additional speed will even work out. Just as there isn\'t just one way to get to the Mun, there isn\'t going to be just one way to get to the other planets. KSP is about finding out how to do it your way. And sharing your ideas on here.

As a last thought, and stated for the record, it isn\'t going to be Mars, it isn\'t going to be Kars. The next planet out from Kerbin isn\'t necessarily going to be a clone of Mars, either. Kerbin\'s system has plenty of potential to be unique in its own way, something I look forward to very much. If I wanted to explore our own system I\'d find an emulator of The Halley Project.

There will be gas giants, there will be ice giants. Probably one big challenge that will hold back the other planets is whether a ringed planet will be possible with the engine. As much of a wizard Harvester has been so far, there are some things that can turn into a big hurdle.

Take 2001: A Space Odyssey for example. This was actually a collaboration between Arthur C Clarke and Stanley Kubrick, where Clarke wrote the story, and Stanley made the movie practically simultaneously. One big hiccup was where the Odyssey was going. In the book, the destination was Saturn. But Hollywood technology at the time left Stanley dubious on whether they could portray Saturn in the same degree as they eventually did with Jupiter. So Stanley instead went with Jupiter for the movie, while Arthur opted to keep Saturn as the destination in the book. It was only after all was said and done and people wondered what the hell they watched that the special effects guy, Douglas Trumbull, came forward and declared he could have been able to render Saturn in all its wonderful ringed glory, and even had done the model to show it. I\'m sure there were some facepalms done at that time. I would have loved to have seen his tests, as Douglas\'s work never stopped to amaze.

My point is, Squad is breaking new ground with the Unity engine, and things are going to take time as they do what hasn\'t been done before. If we have to be satisfied with establishing massive space stations around Kerbin, the Mun, and Kerbol orbit for a while, then I am cool with that. Docking is going to be coming before the rest of the solar system does, so that will give us something to play with, test, break, and test some more for our friends in Squad before they give us planets to play with, test, break, and...well, you know the rest.

we will have docking and fuel transfer before new planets, so put up a few fuel depots at the various lagrange points and do a transfer burn from kerbol orbit.

Except there aren\'t going to be lagrange points in KSP, unless Squad opts to put asteroids or such in those positions with their own SOI. Considering the science behind those is untested and unwieldy at best, it\'s not really much to hang a coat on to actually make the effort to put that in the game. Now if Squad were to put trojans along the orbit of the largest gas giant, that might give somewhere to play that\'s not a planet.

But it should really be stated now that lagranges aren\'t going to happen in KSP. Let\'s accept that and move on.

[Mynorus]

If, IF it has multiplayer by the time we get planets...

Space Odyssey: Voyage To The Planets 1 - BBC

[sting_auer]

If, IF it has multiplayer by the time we get planets...

Space Odyssey: Voyage To The Planets 1 - BBC

Might I direct you to...

This thread?

On another note:

Having a way to create fuel would be extremely useful for traveling to other planets. I think that adding a heavy module called a 'miner module' or something similar, that would create fuel when in contact with the ground in certain areas of planets or asteroids, would work the best.

[AD-Edge]

You wont need a rocket all that much larger than one youd use for the Mun really. In fact my first challenge when the Mars planet is added will be to get to it using my current Munar rocket.

Its a similar trip, you just have a lot longer between the take off and landing, so youll be drifting for a long time with the engines off (hopefully we\'ll get some vanilla ion engines or something to make the trip quicker). I guess predicting where the planet will be so you can get into its orbit and not miss it will be somewhat more difficult, but I imagine it wouldnt be impossible doing simply from line of sight and in the map view. Youd just need to make a bunch of corrections on the way to the planet.

The part I can foresee as being a real issue is the landing, since the gravity and atmosphere will be similar to Kerbin so youll use a but more fuel (or perhaps just parachute down?). Then making a return trip?? Things will get tricky.