[1.10.x] Mark IV Spaceplane System (August 3)

Michaelo90 · November 20, 2016

The drag problem seems to affect the crew cabin too, a tank behind it gets way too much drag just like behind a cargo bay.

HoveringKiller · November 20, 2016

16 hours ago, Nertea said:
If any of you are comfortable looking at cfgs, please help me test a fix... I'm not so good at aero things so I don't know what is normal.

Replace the similar block in mk4cargo-1.cfg with this one:
 // --- node definitions ---
    node_stack_top = 0.0, 5, 0.00, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 4
    node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -5, 0.00, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 4

    node_stack_top2 = 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 2
    node_stack_bottom2 = 0.0, -5, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2

    node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 1.6576, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 4

It does seem that this has helped, and made it easier to break the supersonic barrier.

Was able to get into orbit with my ssto. It seems this fixed it, although I have no idea what all the numbers and everything means haha.

Edited November 20, 2016 by HoveringKiller

Nertea · November 20, 2016

Ok that's good to know.. basically the cargo bay automatically occludes the nodes inside it. However, the outer nodes were misconfigured. This meant that when you attached things to the bay, they were using the inner nodes, and the outer nodes were always unused and unconcluded. It's an easy fix luckily. I'll do a patch tomorrow.

HoveringKiller · November 20, 2016

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

Ok that's good to know.. basically the cargo bay automatically occludes the nodes inside it. However, the outer nodes were misconfigured. This meant that when you attached things to the bay, they were using the inner nodes, and the outer nodes were always unused and unconcluded. It's an easy fix luckily. I'll do a patch tomorrow.

Ah ok. That seems annoying. I did notice when I first reloaded, until I disconnected the cargo bay and reattached it, I was having trouble getting my docking port to attach to the inside. I had to take off the butt of my plane and attach it then re-attach the butt, and that seemed to fix that.

HoveringKiller · November 21, 2016

It seems I am having another issue, this time with the Mk2A 800x aviation fuel tankh of them having LF/Ox in them. They seem to be inducing phantom forces on my spaceplane while it is one the runway. They are attached to the sides of the craft and clipped into a procedural wing, and with fuel my craft is wanting to turn about 5 degrees to the right, while without fuel nothing happens.

No fuel and not turning: http://imgur.com/H1xPbCK

Notice how the SAS is holding YAW steady in the center

Now with fuel: http://imgur.com/3BUpeiq

Notice how the SAS is holding YAW all the way to the left trying to counteract the phantom rotation.

Nertea · November 21, 2016

On 11/20/2016 at 6:21 AM, Michaelo90 said:

The drag problem seems to affect the crew cabin too, a tank behind it gets way too much drag just like behind a cargo bay.

The crew cabin doesn't have nodes like that and I don't see any issues, really.

1 hour ago, HoveringKiller said:

It seems I am having another issue, this time with the Mk2A 800x aviation fuel tankh of them having LF/Ox in them. They seem to be inducing phantom forces on my spaceplane while it is one the runway. They are attached to the sides of the craft and clipped into a procedural wing, and with fuel my craft is wanting to turn about 5 degrees to the right, while without fuel nothing happens.

No fuel and not turning: http://imgur.com/H1xPbCK

Notice how the SAS is holding YAW steady in the center

Now with fuel: http://imgur.com/3BUpeiq

Notice how the SAS is holding YAW all the way to the left trying to counteract the phantom rotation.

More info is needed:

Does this occur when the other aviation fuel tanks are used?
Does this occur when the part is not intersecting with the wing?
Does this occur when the part is intersecting with a non-procedural wing?
Does this behaviour occur when a near-identical, but stock part (jumbo-64) is intersecting with a Pwing?

HoveringKiller · November 21, 2016

42 minutes ago, Nertea said:

More info is needed:

Does this occur when the other aviation fuel tanks are used?

Does this occur when the part is not intersecting with the wing?

Does this occur when the part is intersecting with a non-procedural wing?

Does this behaviour occur when a near-identical, but stock part (jumbo-64) is intersecting with a Pwing?

I have the smaller aviation tank one my craft as well, and when it has LF/OX in it, it doesn't cause it to turn, only when lf/ox goes into the longer tank. I'll try it out with the jumbo64 and a non procedural wing as well. Let me get back to you on that.

HoveringKiller · November 22, 2016

So far, I have that the jumbo tank does not cause it to turn, and the 800X tank with both LF and LF/OX causes it to turn when clipped into the pwing. Just the structural sub-type doesn't effect it. When the fuel tanks are radially attached to the pwing, it also induces the turning forces.

To make sure it wasn't a weight issue, I also did three of the 400X (I had a 400x plus an 800x so same fuel weight) tanks, both structural and loaded. Neither structural or loaded seemed to make any difference (i.e. didn't invoke phantom forces).

Finally, attaching the 800X with fuel to the Big-S delta wing yielded much weaker phantom forces (SAS wasn't trying so hard to correct for it). Structural sub-type on the Big-S delta wing invoked no phantom forces.

Hope this helps and if you need anything more just ask! Although it may be a while, I'm heading home for Thanksgiving break and am not taking my computer with me.

Edit: I wasn't able to get any pictures, but the results are the same as the one above, just different wings and clipping)

Edited November 22, 2016 by HoveringKiller
spelling

Nertea · November 22, 2016

I wasn't able to reproduce the problem despite following your methods. I rexported the collider, don't know if that'll do anything though. Let me know.

MkIV 2.3.3: This should fix a few things, plus add an oft-requested feature - the larger tanks should get Cryo LH2/LH2O versions when CryoTanks is installed.

Fixed problems with Heavy RCS Blister thrust vectors
Fixed cargo bay module occluding the wrong nodes for all regular/ventral bays
Added patch to add cryogenic LH2 and LH2/O fuel storage modes to certain parts (fuselages, tails and adapters) if CryoTanks is installed.

HoveringKiller · November 22, 2016

14 minutes ago, Nertea said:

I wasn't able to reproduce the problem despite following your methods. I rexported the collider, don't know if that'll do anything though. Let me know.

MkIV 2.3.3: This should fix a few things, plus add an oft-requested feature - the larger tanks should get Cryo LH2/LH2O versions when CryoTanks is installed.

Fixed problems with Heavy RCS Blister thrust vectors

Fixed cargo bay module occluding the wrong nodes for all regular/ventral bays

Added patch to add cryogenic LH2 and LH2/O fuel storage modes to certain parts (fuselages, tails and adapters) if CryoTanks is installed.

Hmmm. Maybe it was caused by something else. Oh well, if hopefully this fixes it. If not I can still just use 3 400X tanks :D. Updates always appreciated!

Kolago · November 22, 2016

Something is wrong with MkIVCryoTanksSwitcher.cfg

[ModuleManager] ModuleManager: 32791 patches applied, found <color=orange>10 errors</color>
10 errors related to GameData/MarkIVSystem/Patches/MkIVCryoTanksSwitcher.cfg

Spoiler

[ModuleManager] Applying node MarkIVSystem/Patches/MkIVCryoTanksSwitcher/@PART[mk4fueltank*]:FOR[zzz_CryoTanks] to MarkIVSystem/Parts/Nacelle/mk4fueltank-25-1/mk4fueltank-25-1

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)

[ModuleManager] Cannot find key LH2 in PART

(Filename: C:/buildslave/unity/build/artifacts/generated/common/runtime/UnityEngineDebugBindings.gen.cpp Line: 42)