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Thread: [WIP] Cacteye Telescope v0.1 (2/1/14) - Modular, EVA-serviceable orbital telescope

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky View Post
    Yes, the player will need to maneuver the entire telescope (I've found telescopes quite a bit easier to maneuver after the 0.21 SAS update), and the results will be displayed fullscreen.
    Full screen will be cool so long as it doesn't hide my other mods tabs/icons.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Helix935 View Post
    not just that but have it be able to point at different planets and moons too
    Why not try and build your own with kOS? I have been thinking about this, but currently I am working on other stuff that is keeping me occupied.

  3. #13
    Crater Creator 1of6Billion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sax Man Aeronautics View Post
    You should add a guidance system which automatically makes the telescope move absolutely precisely and stay at its posistion. i.e. Manuvering the telescope VERY slowly to look at something up close thats very far, such as jool.
    Slap on an AR202 from Mechjeb and you're good to go. (TGT+)
    Proudly scattering Kerbals all over the Kerbol system since september 2012

  4. #14
    Rocket Scientist nothke's Avatar
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    Hi, I had an idea for modular telescopes I started working on it. Since you started too, I will throw my ideas on you:

    Instead of putting it into a pre-made part, my telescopes would need to be constructed by players themselves. They came in different basic part types:
    - primary mirror (the giant concave mirror)
    - secondary mirror (the smaller convex mirror)
    - sensors (you say "cameras" but I prefer sensors to differentiate it from hull cameras and such..)
    - sun blankets

    First, since KSP can detect what part is lit by the sun and what not (as with solar panels), this is crucial for telescopes. They should be completely blocked from sun to function (to not return a fully white image). So, first thing you need to design is a way to get the mirrors not lit by the sun. So you can either put blankets on, solar panels, or build a tube out of metal sheets as Hubble, and your part look like. - This was the primary reason Hubble was in a tube, the secondary reason is heat, and only the third is micrometeorites.

    Depending on the distance between the primary, secondary mirror and the sensor, the right magnification would be achieved. Longer distance, bigger magnification. The mirrors must be PERFECTLY aligned along an axis, otherwise, bad picture. This is what happened on Hubble after launch. You don't need to have a secondary mirror

    There are not of course only 4 parts, but these would be many parts of different size and function, for example there could be an optical sensor, a biome sensor, on the other hand, there could be a deployable Webb telescope-like primary mirror, or a smooth hubble-like




    primary, secondary, sensor

    as you can see you don't need to have a secondary, you can place the sensor on the other side, but the magnification would be much smaller.

    This all of course, would be impossible to do in real life, as each mirror would need to be custom made for the distance-configuration. Also bigger mirrors in real life return a brighter image, not a more magnified one. But keeping KSP in LEGO-like modular fashion I could spend a lot of time just playing with these mirrors =)

    That's it for now. Looking forward to the project.
    Last edited by nothke; 7th December 2013 at 10:27.

  5. #15
    @nothke, sounds very interesting and reasonable for science progression ^_^

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubber Ducky View Post
    More reasonable components for the service bay? I need some ideas here
    Film cameras with ejectable return capsules (for lower tech levels)?


    Quote Originally Posted by 1of6Billion View Post
    Slap on an AR202 from Mechjeb and you're good to go. (TGT+)
    The last time I tried this was in 0.20.x with the Lionhead Aerospace telescope (or one using the same/a similar model). I had horrible jitter problems that I blame on floating-point errors.


    Quote Originally Posted by nothke View Post
    First, since KSP can detect what part is lit by the sun and what not (as with solar panels), this is crucial for telescopes. They should be completely blocked from sun to function (to not return a fully white image).
    This would be a problem for sun-observing telescopes, unless you include special parts that return a fully black image when not pointed at the sun...


    Quote Originally Posted by nothke View Post
    as you can see you don't need to have a secondary, you can place the sensor on the other side, but the magnification would be much smaller.
    Suggestion: make front-of-mirror sensors non-removable, but package some or all behind-mirror sensors in MIX drawers (or, on larger telescopes, full FLEXracks) and add the appropriate bays to some of the body pieces.
    Last edited by Fail-Man 3D; 8th December 2013 at 05:51. Reason: Major typo
    bagel_cheese_t* bagels_in_fridge = fridgealloc(6 * sizeof (bagel_cheese_t)); // make room for snacks"All Hail Xacktar. He's Really Cool."
    Quote Originally Posted by Whackjob View Post
    [...] No matter. It's going into orbit whether it likes it or not. [...]

  7. #17
    Rocket Scientist nothke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fail-Man 3D View Post
    This would be a problem for sun-observing telescopes, unless you include special parts that return a fully black image when not pointed at the sun...
    Great idea I didn't think of in the first place! Of course, if you have a sun-gazing sensor, your mission profile changes =)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fail-Man 3D View Post
    Suggestion: make front-of-mirror sensors non-removable, but package some or all behind-mirror sensors in MIX drawers (or, on larger telescopes, full FLEXracks) and add the appropriate bays to some of the body pieces.
    This is (almost) exactly what I am intending to do! =) I intended sensors to come in MIX drawers with only shutter doors on front (that would supposedly open when used), and then have a small frame that can only hold one of them. Then just exchange the drawers from the frame if you need another image =) of course they would be expensive and would come in different tech nodes, so that there is actually a reason to go up there and exchange them. =)
    Last edited by nothke; 8th December 2013 at 08:50.

  8. #18
    Hey nothke! This mod would go really well with your FLEXrack mod as well as 6S tubes. Speaking of flexrack, made any progress lately?
    'Err...Guys? Is it just me, or is something on fire?'

  9. #19
    Sounds interesting -- I especially like the "service in orbit" aspect.

  10. #20
    Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates - got a bit busy with school. I've been working on this heavily for the past few days, but I didn't want to post anything until I had a good idea of what I can accomplish in the near future.

    So I bit the bullet and installed Visual Studio, with the intention of just making a small change to an existing mod. But after a few days of troubleshooting (why KAS rescales non-stock parts when removing them from containers is a mystery to me, luckily its an easy fix) and getting the hang of C#, I eventually got comfortable enough with it to just start my own plugin from scratch. It's not perfect and it's pretty basic atm, but I'm starting to get some nice functionality out of it.

    Aside from that, I've modeled the processors.

    Here's the low-tech processor sitting inside its mount inside the service bay:


    Bill preparing to insert a medium-tech processor from EVA:


    A quartet of Kerbals model the processors for us:

    In order left to right: low tech, medium tech, high tech, and a solar processor for sun-observing telescopes.

    Updated parts list, it keeps growing so I think I'll have to cap it here for first release:
    - Optical tube (complete)
    - Solar optical tube
    - Service bay (complete)
    - Mount (complete)
    - Processors [contains actual cameras]
    • Low tech (complete)
    • Medium tech (complete)
    • High tech (complete)
    • Solar Processor (complete)

    - Instruments/Experiments
    • --Low Tech
    • Wide Field Camera v1 (10% xmit)
    • Kerbin Analysis Camera (10% xmit)
    • Constellation Surveying Camera (10% xmit)
    • ----------------------
    • --Medium Tech
    • Wide Field Camera v2 (65% xmit)
    • Infrared Spectrograph (65% xmit)
    • Ultraviolet Spectrograph (65% xmit)
    • ----------------------
    • --High Tech
    • Wide Field Camera v3 (100% xmit)
    • Gravioli-Shift Spectrograph (100% xmit)
    • Cosmic Origins Spectrograph (100% xmit)
    • ----------------------
    • --Solar Processor
    • Solar Flare Camera
    • Corona Analyzer
    • Protosphere Magnetomatic

    - Servicing ladder that fits nicely in the bay
    - Solar Panels (?)
    - Gyroscope & reaction wheel unit
    - Radially attached probe core
    - Soft capture system (EVA-attachable, docks with Clamp-o-tron Jr.)



    Functionality (plugin-wise):
    - Processors only function when telescope is properly constructed, without using a bunch of stupid resources (complete)
    - Science experiments can only be run when their designated processor is in place and functioning (mostly complete)
    - *maybe* Science gain scales with distance from sun [inverse with sun-observers]
    - *maybe* Science gain based on the angular distance from the center of the telescope to the targeted planet and the planet's distance - possibly even just for WFC experiments
    - *maybe* Processor explodes when the telescope is pointed directly at the sun and the aperture is open [except for specialized solar optics of course]
    - Smart reactions wheels that toggle into a 'fine guidance mode' with an action group? I don't see why not, and it'd make operation a ton easier.
    - probably a bunch of other stuff that I'll think of while developing

    So it's looking quite good now! I think I'll work on the experiment logic quite a bit more next, and after that's sufficiently good, start actually modelling the experiments.

    Thanks for all the brilliant ideas guys, I'm using a number of them. Nothke - I love that mirror setup idea but adding a dynamic mirror system like that would be a pretty big undertaking, so I think I'll focus on the EVA-serviceable aspect more for now. Also, you said you were planning a similar mod to this - don't let my work dissuade you.

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