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  • Opt-in Prerelease for 1.1!


    Ted

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    Hi all,

     

    As I'm sure many of you read, 1.1 is to enter Experimentals this week! It's a significant update to KSP in terms of just how much has changed under the hood. We've done a complete overhaul of the user interface from a conglomerate of interface systems to Unity 5's native system. Aside from that, an entirely new system for the wheels had to be adopted due to the major changes Unity made to the native wheels system, and the list goes on!

     

    Quality Assurance is the most bare bone part of the entire testing process and is performed by around five to ten QA testers pretty much constantly. The focussed testing and efficiency mean that instead of going through the motions of the game as a normal player would, QA tends to identify areas of the new content that would usually be prone to issue and hunt for bugs there. This cuts down the time taken to find issues by a significant margin and means that the content is tested more evenly – playtesting can sometimes skip completely past some aspects of a feature. Furthermore, this method allows the testers to work closely with the developers and compare exactly what they intended to occur for specific cases, to what actually occurs – this is where QA becomes more about feedback.

     

    QA is a lot more than just finding bugs. It’s about having the knowledge of the game (especially how it works under-the-hood), the comprehension of the ideas behind the features in the game, the understanding of what a developer wants the feature to turn out like and how you can assist them in making it happen. Furthermore, it’s about condensing all of that into concise and objectively written issue reports.

     

    The QA process on 1.1 has been going for a long time, but it has been incredibly fruitful: crushing 516 issues in 107 builds! There is still more to do however, in Experimentals we hope to only increase the stability of the game, add polish to areas and carry out some bug fixing as always!

     

    The Experimental Team comprises about 100 testers. All of these testers are volunteers who contribute their spare time to playtest the game. They are normal players, sourced from the various communities via a simple application process. Often and understandably they don’t have as much spare time to devote to testing as the QA Testers and thus there are significantly more Experimental Testers ‘signed up’ than we need at any one time. This works in everyone’s favour as it keeps the activity level throughout an Experimental Phase and doesn’t put pressure on the testers while they also deal with their personal and professional lives.

     

    After we have an update go through QA, as detailed above, it is hopefully free from major issues and each feature has had any needed major improvements and refinements carried out; the update is in a feature-complete state. However, many components of a feature may still be unpolished, such as part balancing, or the performance of newer UI on different platforms. This is where Experimental Testing comes in and assists the developers in cleaning up the remaining feedback issues.

    An Experimental Testing phase typically lasts around a couple of weeks, though it is highly dependent on the number of issues that arise and how much further development is required to reach a release state. At the end of the Experimental phase, there are still a fair amount of issues on the tracker that are still open, but it’s important to note that these issues are typically minor ones, ones that aren’t in the scope of the update or simply issues that would take too much time and resources to resolve.

     

    This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1. This opt-in branch will run for just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update.

     

    The nature and extent of the changes in the update mean that many plugins and add-ons will require refactoring, updating and at the very least a recompile. Of course modders cannot do this overnight and on the flick of a switch, especially with an update of this scope. Typically a select group of particularly KSP-savvy modders would be given access to the new update to help us find bugs, but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone.

     

    The pre-release branch will be opt-in via Steam only, and won't be available via the KSP Store. We really wanted to make the pre-release branch available on all distribution channels but given the frequency of builds, the size of those builds, and the necessity for everyone to be on the latest version for testing it proved to be impossible to facilitate this on the KSP store.

     

    To facilitate discussions of the pre-release branch we’ll be opening up a temporary forum for feedback. Additionally, a separate section will be made available on the bug tracker to report bugs on.

     

    Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have!

     

     


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    1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    And where does this leave modders? Should they not release 1.1 versions until it's out of beta because not everyone has access? Should they release 1.1-compatible versions and stop supporting those people who don't have access to it? Or is the onus on them to maintain two releases and offer support to users installing the wrong version? Any approach here increases the support load for modders when they will presumably be working furiously to get their mods working on 1.1. How are modders who bought KSP through non-Steam outlets supposed to get a head start on updating, which is one of the beta's goals? And I don't even want to think of how CKAN will handle having two "current" versions of KSP being in the wild simultaneously, any approach there is going to cause additional support issues, too.

    So as I see it, the public beta is not going to significantly improve the bugfixing phase, while alienating the non-Steam portion of the userbase and increasing the workload on modders during their busiest time.

    I honestly do not think it is fair to our community to proceed with this plan. The way I see it the only fair ways to move forward are:

    • Allow everyone access to the beta, through whatever means are practical. Pony up for the additional store bandwidth, give Steam keys to people who bought elsewhere, fix the patcher so that incremental updates work instead of having to download the complete game on each update, use alternative hosting like is done for the demo version, or make at least the first beta version available through the store and other outlets so that those customers have *some* opportunity to try the new version.
    • If, for practical reasons, making it available to everyone is not feasible, then don't do a public beta. If more testing is needed then get more testers into the experimental group or extend the experimental period, or start a third private group for additional testers and modders who need early access.

    I write this as someone who is a fairly strong Squad supporter, who bought KSP through the store early enough that I could transfer my store purchase to Steam, and who is a member of the experimentals team. I personally would have access to the beta even if the current plan goes ahead, so I'm not just trying to get access for myself. I love this game and the community around it, this is about what is fair to that community as a whole.

    It is not "entitlement" or "whining" or "drama" to ask to be treated the same as other paying customers.

    Please consider the above as constructive criticism and reconsider this move.

    1) Up to the modders. Personally, I'm not releasing ANYTHING until out of beta. Build updates will likely be frequent and disruptive. I don't want any instability in my releases. The goal of experimentals is to let modders develop in private. The public beta should be similar. It gives a chance for modders who don't have experimental access the ability to get a head-start on fixes. It is up to them if they want to handle the deluge of bug reports. Modders who do release will ALSO release as beta. CKAN will likely either ignore the beta or have a beta version of it's own!

    2) It will aid bugfixing. Remember the hotfixes? This is to try and eliminate those. Don't treat this as a KSP update. Think of it as an interim product that they are providing to existing users for the cost of bug reports and non-permanent gameplay.

    From a developer standpoint, they likely have steam uploads automated with their build environment allowing for FAST turnaround time. Alowing the steam client to auto-update will help to ensure that users have up-to-date builds and aren't erroneously reporting a bug as not fixed. With other sources the builds could be much slower to update and don't guarantee that users are running the "latest and greatest". 


    That being said, I'd partially agree that the beta might be better off staying closed in experimentals for additional time rather than an open beta. I feel that users will feel "shafted" by not being able to participate in betas if they didn't purchase from Steam and can't transfer.
     

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    4 minutes ago, Djolox said:

    By the frequency of posts and the topic, isn't this some kind of 1.1 hype thread?

    We're on the reverse hype-train right now.

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    12 minutes ago, rbray89 said:

    That being said, I'd partially agree that the beta might be better off staying closed in experimentals for additional time rather than an open beta. I feel that users will feel "shafted" by not being able to participate in betas if they didn't purchase from Steam and can't transfer.
     

    I wouldn't partially agree that the beta might be better off staying closed in experimentals, I'd fully agree. I seriously doubt, would be willing to bet the farm, that the bug reports that Squad fields from the general Steam population is going to do anything to speed up the bug killing process, if anything, it's going to cause a quagmire.

    Edited by Otis
    grammar
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    Just now, Djolox said:

    Anyways, why is everyone so salty?

    Seriously?  Read the thread.  Part of the community might not get the "privilege" of helping test a pre-release version of 1.1 because they're not on a super-convenient-for-an-overworked-Squad distribution platform.

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    Just to put a slight coda on what @rbray89 said, I still get "bug reports" on my mods from people who haven't updated to the current (1028+) build of 1.0.5, and find things failing to work. And this is just shy of four months after it was released.

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    I did read, but I think that something is better than nothing, anyways, biggest joy to me was watching the first impressions by Youtubers that got the update earlier than the others.

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    1 hour ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

    E: When I press next (or prev, first, last, etc) this comment section freezes. Refreshing will load the requested page. Anyone else experiencing this?

    Yes, I am experiencing the same thing and not on just one computer. 

     

    As excited as I was about his announcement (Full disclosure: I own KSP on Steam), I'm starting to agree with the sentiment that it might be best to just extend Experimentals or better yet, create a larger "Beta" or "Pre-Release Group." I see the value in having more "eyes on the problem," or in this case, hands on the keyboard, looking for bugs. It's impossible to catch every bug, but having a larger number of people dedicated to bug hunting does help out a lot. Even though I own KSP on Steam, I sympathize with those who bought in directly to support the developers and I wonder if replacing the public beta or pre-release with a larger group would be better. The question is: can the KSP store handle 200 people downloading new builds multiple times a day? How about 500? 1000? 2000?  If not, then maybe it should just stay with the Experimentals group.

     

    BTW: My comments are just thoughts and suggestions. I fully realize that Squad will do what they think is best and I will still support them and enjoy KSP either way. I'm not trying to make demands or anything

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    STOOOPPPP!!!

    If I were SQUAD, all this flaming, whining & Co would be reason for me to cancel the pre-release.

    It seems to make more hate than being helpful and ppl beeing thankful. thats all u will earn for continue arguing! STOP IT!

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    Just now, Speadge said:

    STOOOPPPP!!!

    If I were SQUAD, all this flaming, whining & Co would be reason for me to cancel the pre-release.

    It seems to make more hate than being helpful and ppl beeing thankful. thats all u will earn for continue arguing! STOP IT!

    This is exactly what I thought of.

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    It seems there is a feeling that the pre-release is a privilege. I see it as a way to help Squad to make the game better. Sure, it will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling if you can do that. But if you can't, it shouldn't make you have your panties in a bunch. You're not being left out of anything grandiose.

    The purpose of the pre-release is not to give you the opportunity to show off to your friends that you have 1.1 and they don't. The purpose of the pre-release is to improve the game. So, what to do if you don't have Steam and you're upset of missing out on the pre-release? I'll get flamed when I say “grow up” so I'm not saying that. Instead, I'll leave it to your own introspection.

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    7 minutes ago, Speadge said:

    If I were SQUAD, all this flaming, whining & Co would be reason for me to cancel the pre-release.

    This argument will probably not be very persuasive to someone whose stated goal is to cancel the pre-release.

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    16 minutes ago, Kerbart said:

    It seems there is a feeling that the pre-release is a privilege. I see it as a way to help Squad to make the game better. Sure, it will give you a warm and fuzzy feeling if you can do that. But if you can't, it shouldn't make you have your panties in a bunch. You're not being left out of anything grandiose.

    The purpose of the pre-release is not to give you the opportunity to show off to your friends that you have 1.1 and they don't. The purpose of the pre-release is to improve the game. So, what to do if you don't have Steam and you're upset of missing out on the pre-release? I'll get flamed when I say “grow up” so I'm not saying that. Instead, I'll leave it to your own introspection.

    I agree with you. I thought this will be hype thread, just like the one we had for 0.23.5, but it actually turned into a flame-war thread between people that complain about the Steam-only pre-release and the once defending the concept.

    Edit: For people that cry over this: When KSP was only available through Store, I could have cried because I couldn't buy an awesome game because none of the transaction services were available in my country.

    Edited by Djolox
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    I can understand why modders that don't have access to Steam might not be happy, but I also assume that anyone who wants to update or develop a mod can probably get a copy by just asking Ted; there aren't that many modders and providing access to those not on Steam is unlikely to be a huge burden.

    It might also be likely that anyone who truly wants to help in searching out bugs could get a copy.

    But as for the rest, get over it.

    It's been nearly a year since the last major update, I don't think waiting a few weeks for the release should be that painful; a release that just maybe won't be followed by weeks or months of waiting for a hotfix to address the critical issues that were missed because of the limited testing capabilities of a relatively small testing team.

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    Well, I'm not impressed by this decision by Squad. Might as well put a great big sign on the Store page: "Inferior to Steam".

    If it was me, I'd cancel the public beta and set up a distribution center for the beta builds and public consumption? Maybe talk to Curse?

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    1 minute ago, DMagic said:

    I can understand why modders that don't have access to Steam might not be happy, but I also assume that anyone who wants to update or develop a mod can probably get a copy by just asking Ted; there aren't that many modders and providing access to those not on Steam is unlikely to be a huge burden.

    It might also be likely that anyone who truly wants to help in searching out bugs could get a copy.

    But as for the rest, get over it.

    It's been nearly a year since the last major update, I don't think waiting a few weeks for the release should be that painful; a release that just maybe won't be followed by weeks or months of waiting for a hotfix to address the critical issues that were missed because of the limited testing capabilities of a relatively small testing team.

    It's not painful and I for one don't mind waiting. I just don't like the idea of not having access and not being able to participate just because I don't want the Steam version. And, keep in mind, I can still get it for free, I just don't want it. I am perfectly happy with the store version that I have and have had since .18. I don't want to lose my store access because of the Steam transfer, and I don't want to spend $40 for a second copy of the same game.

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    9 minutes ago, DMagic said:

    It might also be likely that anyone who truly wants to help in searching out bugs could get a copy.

    But as for the rest, get over it.

    This.

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    Just now, hendrack said:

    This.

    If there is a way to get the early access without Steam, please tell me and others how. I've asked already through other channels and was told that I needed Steam.

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    One time I was finishing a long hike on a hot day with two friends, Bob and Bill. For the last part of the hike, I was telling them about this nice beer I had in the fridge and we were all pretty excited about it. I was just unlocking the front door when I mentioned that I only had one beer and it was going to Bob. Bill was kind of upset, for some reason. 

    I told Bill he was being selfish and immature, but somehow he still didn't get the point, even after I said I'd definitely let both of them have a beer next week.

    Even after he admitted that it would be better for one person to have a beer than for nobody to have one, he still felt hard done by, and said it might have been better to not offer the beer to anyone. 

    Morals a-plenty:

    - Don't bring a snack to share if you don't bring enough for everyone.
    - You need to think about how you treat your friends, if you want to keep them. "How would you feel if..." is always a good start.
    - Sometimes a simple utility function isn't really the best guide to action.

    Interestingly, I think the choice mechanism makes it more unpalatable. If I had said, "Listen, I've got just one beer. Do you guys want to flip a coin for it?" I don't think Bill would have felt slighted if he lost the coin toss. It would have been a disappointment, perhaps, but not an insult.

    My modest proposal: Decide how many users you can afford to have downloading the product from the store, and conduct a lottery among those store users who ask for access, and give it out to that many. Many (most? almost all?) of us will lose, but I truly think it would prevent hard feelings. You could even monitor traffic and add additional spots if it looks like the infrastructure will handle it. 

    Please consider that, or some similar solution.

     

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    5 minutes ago, Otis said:

    If there is a way to get the early access without Steam, please tell me and others how. I've asked already through other channels and was told that I needed Steam.

    Other than high-profile mod creators you, me, and hundreds of others are out of luck for two weeks. Period. End of story.

    @Perry Apsis I'd recommend replacing "beer" with something forum-friendly

    Edited by KerbonautInTraining
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    A bit of background before I pose a couple of questions:

     

    How many remember back to the 1.0 release? Leading up to the release the consensus was that squad should hold off on 1.0 and release a public beta because of how big of a change was coming. And sure enough, a lot of bugs, tweaks, balance, and missed features slipped through testing. The running joke on the forum was that 1.0 should have been called 'Should have done beta'. Its got to the point that squad had to come to the forums and take the blame for rushing 1.0 through testing because people started wondering if the testers were simply incompetent. It appears that squad has indeed heeded the community and wants there to be a much wider testing phase before offical release so they don't need to churn out 3 or 4 hot fixes in a week.

     

    So the question I pose is this:
    Had squad not done this testing, and released a bug filled, unbalanced update, would the community have to the forums en mass to complain that squad didn't put the update through more rigorous testing?

    An even more interesting question is:
    Would the people protesting squad's current plan be among those voices?

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    A farmer finds a magic lamp in his field. A few rubs later, the genie says, "Make a wish, but know that whatever I do for you, I will do the same thing doubled for your neighbor."

    The farmer thinks for a moment.

    "Pluck out one of my eyes."

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