Kerbal Space Program patch 1.1.2 is now live!

You know, I started writing this whole long post about this thing and then I realized it just doesn't matter what I think.

But then there's this:

5 minutes ago, ibanix said:

I "love" all the arm-chair software development, from people who have likely never worked in the industry. 

 

See, the thing is, it doesn't matter if we work in the industry or not.  We're a special group, known as "paying customers" who are dissatisfied with a product that has never worked as advertised.  If I pay a plumber to fix my pipes, I expect them to be fixed.  If I buy a car, I expect it to work.  If they don't, and the response you get from the people you paid was "you're not a plumber, you don't understand... if you think it's so easy, go to plumber school", well, there's a phrase for that... it's called "poor customer service".  If I buy a car and the engine does weird stuff, I expect the manufacturer to make it right, I don't need to be an engine expert or a car builder to have that expectation.  

But hey, the community will work to fix the lapses... as with ATM and DTL.  People are writing mods on their own time, creating patches on their own time, just to make the game playable.  It should be playable on day 1, and mods should add to the game, not make it functional.  But, admittedly, I'm not a software developer... I'm just some schlub who dropped his $40 on the table expecting to get a playable game.

Enjoy your vacation guys.

Thanks so much for the work on a quick fix Squad.

KSP 1.1.2 for me is working near perfectly.

10 minutes ago, JJE64 said:

You know, I started writing this whole long post about this thing and then I realized it just doesn't matter what I think.

But then there's this:

 

See, the thing is, it doesn't matter if we work in the industry or not.  We're a special group, known as "paying customers" who are dissatisfied with a product that has never worked as advertised.  If I pay a plumber to fix my pipes, I expect them to be fixed.  If I buy a car, I expect it to work.  If they don't, and the response you get from the people you paid was "you're not a plumber, you don't understand... if you think it's so easy, go to plumber school", well, there's a phrase for that... it's called "poor customer service".  If I buy a car and the engine does weird stuff, I expect the manufacturer to make it right, I don't need to be an engine expert or a car builder to have that expectation.  

But hey, the community will work to fix the lapses... as with ATM and DTL.  People are writing mods on their own time, creating patches on their own time, just to make the game playable.  It should be playable on day 1, and mods should add to the game, not make it functional.  But, admittedly, I'm not a software developer... I'm just some schlub who dropped his $40 on the table expecting to get a playable game.

Enjoy your vacation guys.

The game has been playable for years, I started when it was 0.25.

I agree, the game has bugs, but they are continuing to work on them, as evidenced by this latest release.

There are lots of other, much more expensive games, which are unplayable even years after they were released.  I'm sorry you feel this isn't unplayable, but I can say that a local high school engineering team made the state finals in a space mission problem solely as a result of my having pointed them towards this game

i was just toying around with 1.1.2 and it took the game less than 10 minutes to crash. i was testing out KAS/KIS as I am still getting used to it. I was ON THE LAUNCH PAD at KSC with a MK3 Capsule, the smaller 2.5 meter KAS container, a ladder ON the command pod and in the container: 9 connector ports, 4 large ground pylons, 4 smaller pylons and in bills inventory? the wrench and driver. I was setting up a test pipeline that was circling the capsule. my MET clock read only 4 MINUTES of mission time. I was in the VAB for all of 2 minutes MAX loading the test rig up. This game is unplayable now, and with the devs taking a break for what 2-3 weeks? come on, way to go. treat the minor problems and ignore the major ones? 

output log: http://www.filedropper.com/outputlog_8

i love KSP but, this is unplayable.

@Kaa253 you are LUCKY. I envy you.

Edited May 1, 2016 by AlamoVampire

Ya know what give them some time.  You can always go play 1.0.5 if you bought on steam.  They just completely overhauled the game bound to take them some time to get all the kinks worked out.  Maybe even a year.  But at teh end of the day this is still the best game I have ever played so and it has been ever since I started playing demo version 0.13.  Over the grand scheme of things the current version is still a step up for me.  For a mall group due to crashes it may be a step down but for the vast majority it is a step up and 1.1.2 is even better.  I am sure they will keep working to fix the bugs let them have 2 weeks off.  When they come back they will be ready to work hard for us again.  @SQUAD  Thanks for your hard work and have fun on vacation and If you are reading this STAY OFF THE FORUM we will all still be here when you get back despite some users teenage angst.  

2 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

i was testing out KAS/KIS a

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't KAS/KIS still only for 1.1?  There were some rather significant changes from 1.1 to 1.1.1 and 1.1.2. I found out the hard way when I had to update EditorExtensionsRedux for the new releases.

Is the game crashing for you in a plain stock mode?

4 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

i was just toying around with 1.1.2 and it took the game less than 10 minutes to crash. i was testing out KAS/KIS as I am still getting used to it. I was ON THE LAUNCH PAD at KSC with a MK3 Capsule, the smaller 2.5 meter KAS container, a ladder ON the command pod and in the container: 9 connector ports, 4 large ground pylons, 4 smaller pylons and in bills inventory? the wrench and driver. I was setting up a test pipeline that was circling the capsule. my MET clock read only 4 MINUTES of mission time. I was in the VAB for all of 2 minutes MAX loading the test rig up. This game is unplayable now, and with the devs taking a break for what 2-3 weeks? come on, way to go. treat the minor problems and ignore the major ones? 

output log: http://www.filedropper.com/outputlog_8

i love KSP but, this is unplayable.

@Kaa253 you are LUCKY. I envy you.

SO you are playing with a modded install that has a mod not updated for 1.1.2 and you blame the game and not the Mod??????  Dude really?

2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't KAS/KIS still only for 1.1?  

Yes still only for 1.1.

If you would go over to the KIS & KAS threads, you will see that they are looking into the problems

I'm slowly working through the mods I support to change the supported version to only those releases I've been able to test.  I'm doing this because I don't want to have to deal with comments and feelings like what have been expressed in this thread.

The unfortunate result is that, even if one or more of my mods are compatible with a new release, they won't run until I update them.  This will delay the ability of people to play with the mods.

Most mods will work without any change, so all these comments are doing are hurting players.  I actually had a report earlier that KWRocketryRedux parts were getting segfaults IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT MOD.  It wasted my time looking into this, and I can only imagine  what other mod authors are dealing with

the issue isnt any of the mods. these crashes are happening to everyone, modded or not. seeing as my mods were functioning last night (mechjeb, novapunch <with the exception of the one engine that has induced vab lag since 1.0.5>, proc fairings and KIS/KAS) and KIS/KAS was FUNCTIONING as expected right up until the crash, its not the mods. its something IN the game. I have a little CPU/RAM monitor built into my keyboard, and since 1.1 KSP has been at 73-90% CPU usage, with ram hovering around 60-70%. 

 

2 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

the issue isnt any of the mods. these crashes are happening to everyone, modded or not. seeing as my mods were functioning last night (mechjeb, novapunch <with the exception of the one engine that has induced vab lag since 1.0.5>, proc fairings and KIS/KAS) and KIS/KAS was FUNCTIONING as expected right up until the crash, its not the mods. its something IN the game. I have a little CPU/RAM monitor built into my keyboard, and since 1.1 KSP has been at 73-90% CPU usage, with ram hovering around 60-70%. 

And last night, were you running 1.1.1, and today, are you running 1.1.2?

I am starting to think the extra CPU usage is caused by the new lighting system in U5, Enlighten- from a little bit of searching it appears that for some wacky reason they decided to make it use CPU instead of GPU (yes I realize CPUs are more homogeneous but still). My GPU usage in 1.1.x does seem to be down a tiny bit. Not sure what the light setup in the VAB is though, I imagine it must be simple enough? Just a guess, and most threads containing reference to high CPU and/or memory leaks are a year or two old...

If you get reliable CTD or BSOD please post logs to the tracker

Edited May 1, 2016 by Waxing_Kibbous

24 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

 

And last night, were you running 1.1.1, and today, are you running 1.1.2?

i was running trip ace until about 4am central yes. when i powered the game (read: 7 minutes or so before the crash in that output log i tossed up) steam had pushed it to 1.1.2. like i said before, these crashes are hitting everyone modded or not. what a time for a vacation..when the game is the most unstable with major issues that need to be addressed...

On modded games:

Remember the Win64 controversy?
Remember the mod support nightmare from users reporting unpredictable stock game-engine instability as "bugs"?
Now, imagine that it's not just one build that's unstable, it's like this on every platform...

Yes, mods will probably aggravate issues, but managed (mod) code simply shouldn't be able to crash the game this way.
If it's faulting with errors from glibc and a native stack trace, as it is on GNU/Linux, then it's NOT mods at fault - it's almost certainly a thread-safety or memory-management issue in Unity. I suspect this is the same bug as is causing those ntdll traces on Windows too.

Like any sensible person I have multiple installs. My stock install crashes, on average, just as often as a heavily modded one, with the same stack trace in the log.

I had stock 1.1.2 crash to desktop (double free or corruption (out)) within 5 minutes of starting it up for the first time. This has not improved since 1.1.0 at all.

Mod authors will likely still get the reports for these stock bugs though.

 

I don't understand why you guys are crashing so much. I had the game running. alt-tabbed out of it. put the computer into sleep mode, came back. played again. browsed the internet. watched tv. made and ate supper. played some more. watched more tv. played more again, and I finally just turned it off as i've played enough today.

It didn't crash once in all that time...

Maybe i'm just lucky.

31 minutes ago, chrisb2e9 said:

I don't understand why you guys are crashing so much. I had the game running. alt-tabbed out of it. put the computer into sleep mode, came back. played again. browsed the internet. watched tv. made and ate supper. played some more. watched more tv. played more again, and I finally just turned it off as i've played enough today.

It didn't crash once in all that time...

Maybe i'm just lucky.

Yes this is roughly my experience as well, at least with 1.1.2 and 1.1.  1.1.1 was bugged badly for me but never crashed either did crash once.    I have noticed bugs in all of them but none that make it unplayable, I am mostly stock, other than "Champagne Bottle", revived by Linuxgurugamer, and Slashy's "wheel fix".  Perhaps there is some other issues here with certain hardware?  Apparently my old 2008 equipment is more stable due to long legacy support? Becuase for me in general  the game really runs the best it ever has since... oh... probably .24 or so.

Edited May 1, 2016 by mcirish3

6 hours ago, War Eagle 1 said:

Starting to get a bit mad now.
Macbook users have had a graphics error sense 1.1 and it still isn't resolved. In fact its getting worse

Not just Macbook users... also iMac users, like me.

Dammit, how many times do I update!

4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

There were some rather significant changes from 1.1 to 1.1.1 and 1.1.2

A what, again?

Oh no...

Love being able to change navball position.

It still crashes a lot.

This makes me sad.

Halp!

Edited May 1, 2016 by Marshal Nedelin
typo

As if the continued crashes were not annoying enough, I can now confirm that at least one stock landing leg is still borked (jumps, explodes if walked into). In fact leg/surface collisions still appear to be borked in general. Bug reported, but I'm getting pretty fed-up with this TBH. This stuff is what the prerelease was for.

Edited May 1, 2016 by steve_v
Spelling accuracy inversely proportional to frustration levels.

I had a bad feeling when the news came 1.1 was coming out of prerelease ... much too early. Should've been at least another month, these two patches wouldn't be needed.

12 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I had a bad feeling when the news came 1.1 was coming out of prerelease ... much too early.

My thoughts exactly. So far this is shaping up just like the 1.0 release mess: Release early, rush a bunch of hotfixes, go on holiday, return and push more patches.

My experience, with projects that don't release buggy builds unless clearly stated as a beta or RC, is that releases are ready when the serious bugs are addressed and no new ones are being reported. The open bug count on the tracker is still increasing, the game still crashes at random, and the landing legs are still bugged.
QC anyone?

If this continues, we might finally get a 1.1 release that works properly as a "stopgap" shortly before 1.2 enters experimentals... just like last time.

53 minutes ago, steve_v said:

....If this continues, we might finally get a 1.1 release that works properly as a "stopgap" shortly before 1.2 enters experimentals... just like last time.

I suspect just that will happen.

I remember how I was playing the demo and waiting for 1.0 to buy the full one, so as I could get the finished game. yeah, right.

of course I appreciate the support and updates, but hotfix patches shortly after release and all these things seem kinda weird to me.

 

Can anyone confirm that GOG has the new patch?

24 hours and still no update.

7 hours ago, JJE64 said:

You know, I started writing this whole long post about this thing and then I realized it just doesn't matter what I think.

But then there's this:

 

See, the thing is, it doesn't matter if we work in the industry or not.  We're a special group, known as "paying customers" who are dissatisfied with a product that has never worked as advertised.  If I pay a plumber to fix my pipes, I expect them to be fixed.  If I buy a car, I expect it to work.  If they don't, and the response you get from the people you paid was "you're not a plumber, you don't understand... if you think it's so easy, go to plumber school", well, there's a phrase for that... it's called "poor customer service".  If I buy a car and the engine does weird stuff, I expect the manufacturer to make it right, I don't need to be an engine expert or a car builder to have that expectation.  

But hey, the community will work to fix the lapses... as with ATM and DTL.  People are writing mods on their own time, creating patches on their own time, just to make the game playable.  It should be playable on day 1, and mods should add to the game, not make it functional.  But, admittedly, I'm not a software developer... I'm just some schlub who dropped his $40 on the table expecting to get a playable game.

Enjoy your vacation guys.

 

Your sentiment might make sense if comparing software engineering to plumbing was even remotely... Well, comparable.

 

See, your plumbing isn't like a program.  Your plumbing is more like a single line of code.  When your single line of code is broken, you can see it's broken and you know what's wrong and where.  You can pay the software engineer to come in and fix that one line of code easily.  The problem is found, you've directed him RIGHT to it.  It gets fixed.

 

Most people who answer you: "You're not a software engineer, you wouldn't understand" fall back on such a response because making people understand is a long and time consuming task.  Explaining the problems in software development is a time-consuming, and inefficient task.  The time spent telling you all about what's broken is time wasted.  You can't fix it, why bother wasting time explaining anything further?  If you take your car to the shop for repairs, or get your plumbing worked on, 'you' (to refer to most average people) can barely wrap your head around the problem as it is before you add in the industry jargon and knowledge of national/international standards.  And this is a simple problem that you can physically see(smell;hear;feel) and find.  The guys working on your stuff might humor you if you seem to at least understand what's going on to begin with, but will try and keep it short and simple.  They're there to fix it, not instruct you.

 

Now, looking back at your plumbing example...  I said that your plumbing is more like a single line of code.  If you want your plumbing example to hold water (pun not intended), then a program isn't your plumbing.  A program is plumbing, for an entire city.  Imagine, if you will, a city of 500,000 people, with a grand total of 10 plumbers to find and fix any leaks.

 

TEN PLUMBERS to cover a hundred square miles of buildings ranging from single-family homes, to sprawling office complexes and industrial facilities.  They have to go in, find the leaks, and fix them one at a time.  This, is programming.

Now, imagine that your ten plumbers are working with blueprints and schematics for a water distribution system built by someone else.  Now they have to keep things patched up and flowing without even intimately knowing everything going on below their feet.  This is programming on top of an engine, like KSP is built on top of Unity.

 

Now, imagine that you have ten plumbers, and then about a thousand people wandering around an otherwise empty city designed to hold 500,000, randomly shouting about how a water fountain isn't working in a park, or a toilet won't flush, or the shower's cold.  Imagine now, that only 100 of those people actually give detailed information about the problem.  Like the address, floor, room, and any other observations they discovered once they realized something was busted.

 

This is the reality of the situation a dev is presented with.  Hundreds of thousands of potential points of failure, policed by ten on-the-payroll workers, bombarded by failure reports with only a fraction of said reports actually useful enough to find and fix the problem.  And what makes it even better is that as useful as the failure reports are, they flood in from non-employees.  These are 'phone in' reports from customers who might have just woke up to discover their kitchen flooded.  Everyone wants their problem fixed, NOW.

 

People, across many program dev projects and boards, just seem to fail to understand this concept.  It's no wonder 'You're not a programmer, you wouldn't understand' has become the mantra.  You really aren't a programmer.  You really DON'T understand.  Your product isn't something that's been under constant development and improvement for a hundred years (cars), and it's not some simple break that's easy to find and fix (plumbing).  Software engineering just isn't the same kind of product/service that people are used to.  The reality is that it's FAR more complicated while still being all but On-Demand.  This is 'the standard', or really, compared to a lot of indy-devs,  above the standard.  You want that 'perfect and complete' feel in your software?  Look at the kind of money and product you get:  Microsoft's Windows operating system.  Easily $300 for the lowest end copies, still needs some patching after every new version, been in development and constantly built upon for almost 30 years now, and uses a small army of codemonkeys for said development backed by one of the largest companies in the software world.

 

Let me clarify something for you:  You spent $40.

You didn't buy a product.

You invested $40 in a project that is likely to be ongoing for another half-decade.  Buckle down and grit those teeth.  Sometimes it will be painful.  I've been waiting for the return of 64 bit and a fix for a major memory leak since this time last year.  A few more weeks to fix some additional bugs popping up?

 

I can wait.