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  • Opt-in Prerelease for 1.1!


    Ted

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    Hi all,

     

    As I'm sure many of you read, 1.1 is to enter Experimentals this week! It's a significant update to KSP in terms of just how much has changed under the hood. We've done a complete overhaul of the user interface from a conglomerate of interface systems to Unity 5's native system. Aside from that, an entirely new system for the wheels had to be adopted due to the major changes Unity made to the native wheels system, and the list goes on!

     

    Quality Assurance is the most bare bone part of the entire testing process and is performed by around five to ten QA testers pretty much constantly. The focussed testing and efficiency mean that instead of going through the motions of the game as a normal player would, QA tends to identify areas of the new content that would usually be prone to issue and hunt for bugs there. This cuts down the time taken to find issues by a significant margin and means that the content is tested more evenly – playtesting can sometimes skip completely past some aspects of a feature. Furthermore, this method allows the testers to work closely with the developers and compare exactly what they intended to occur for specific cases, to what actually occurs – this is where QA becomes more about feedback.

     

    QA is a lot more than just finding bugs. It’s about having the knowledge of the game (especially how it works under-the-hood), the comprehension of the ideas behind the features in the game, the understanding of what a developer wants the feature to turn out like and how you can assist them in making it happen. Furthermore, it’s about condensing all of that into concise and objectively written issue reports.

     

    The QA process on 1.1 has been going for a long time, but it has been incredibly fruitful: crushing 516 issues in 107 builds! There is still more to do however, in Experimentals we hope to only increase the stability of the game, add polish to areas and carry out some bug fixing as always!

     

    The Experimental Team comprises about 100 testers. All of these testers are volunteers who contribute their spare time to playtest the game. They are normal players, sourced from the various communities via a simple application process. Often and understandably they don’t have as much spare time to devote to testing as the QA Testers and thus there are significantly more Experimental Testers ‘signed up’ than we need at any one time. This works in everyone’s favour as it keeps the activity level throughout an Experimental Phase and doesn’t put pressure on the testers while they also deal with their personal and professional lives.

     

    After we have an update go through QA, as detailed above, it is hopefully free from major issues and each feature has had any needed major improvements and refinements carried out; the update is in a feature-complete state. However, many components of a feature may still be unpolished, such as part balancing, or the performance of newer UI on different platforms. This is where Experimental Testing comes in and assists the developers in cleaning up the remaining feedback issues.

    An Experimental Testing phase typically lasts around a couple of weeks, though it is highly dependent on the number of issues that arise and how much further development is required to reach a release state. At the end of the Experimental phase, there are still a fair amount of issues on the tracker that are still open, but it’s important to note that these issues are typically minor ones, ones that aren’t in the scope of the update or simply issues that would take too much time and resources to resolve.

     

    This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1. This opt-in branch will run for just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update.

     

    The nature and extent of the changes in the update mean that many plugins and add-ons will require refactoring, updating and at the very least a recompile. Of course modders cannot do this overnight and on the flick of a switch, especially with an update of this scope. Typically a select group of particularly KSP-savvy modders would be given access to the new update to help us find bugs, but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone.

     

    The pre-release branch will be opt-in via Steam only, and won't be available via the KSP Store. We really wanted to make the pre-release branch available on all distribution channels but given the frequency of builds, the size of those builds, and the necessity for everyone to be on the latest version for testing it proved to be impossible to facilitate this on the KSP store.

     

    To facilitate discussions of the pre-release branch we’ll be opening up a temporary forum for feedback. Additionally, a separate section will be made available on the bug tracker to report bugs on.

     

    Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have!

     

     


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    Good...goooood.  Let the butthurt flow through you.  :)  As a developer, I wanted to chime in on pre-release testing.

    Testing on Steam is really one of the best options for an external pre-realease test program.  It allows you to specify parameters, limit participation, and many other things.  Steamworks has a full API for pre-release testing.  

    Two of the biggest benefits of Steam pre-release testing:

    1. Audience Targeting - by utilizing Steam's Hardware Survey of opt-in gamers, they can distribute based on any number of variables, i.e. Video Card, CPUs, Memory, OS, RAM, etc etc etc.  Really, really good for the compatibility testing.
    2. Bug Reporting - Steamworks enables SQUAD able to track new issues and crashes in real-time and triage them based on severity and number of affected users.  It auto-collects minidumps (logs) and parses them for you.  Plus, the rapid build distribution is a benefit.  

     

    Honestly, I'm surprised SQUAD hasn't switched to 100% steam and offered the opt-in to the steam client for buyers through other services.  This would be a good game for the Steam Workshop for mod distribution and updating.

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    This thread. Wow.

    Would not exist, if Squad had held on to private QA testing and Experimentals, as they have done for previous KSP updates. We could be merrily posting good thoughts in the Experimentals announcement thread, and wondering how long it will take for various mod authors to update their mods. It's not the end of my world if I have to wait for a mod update; I have already backed up my current game state to another folder so I can keep playing with it. I will be happy to start a new v1.1 game, just to explore the changes and additions to the Stock experience. (If KSP hold no entertainment for you without mods, you should back up your current installation to another folder, before v1.1 is released.)

    An extended test period is certainly warranted, given the huge amount of changed code in the rewrite for Unity 5.  But a community test phase would not necessarily have made the v1.0 cycle any better; the 1.0.1 patch was said to include many issues already known, risks of changes close to an immovable release date got in the way.  It's a hard call to make: will the extra effort of parsing through the feedback from a public test phase find fix-worthy problems, that an extended private Experimentals test pass would miss?   Finding a problem is only half of the battle.

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    8 hours ago, Ohm Machre said:

     

    It's a beta. A closed beta at that.

     

    No it is an open beta.  Since anyone who owns a copy on steam can take part there is no application process.

    8 hours ago, Ohm Machre said:

    Literally all you need to do is convert your store key to a Steam key if you want it so badly.

    No this is not possible.  Everyone who purchased via the KSP store after may of 2013 cannot convert over to steam.


     

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    End of the day it is this :|

    After experimentals are over and open beta starts, yes at first it the game will still be full of bugs, but what about a week later, a lot less bugs I am betting and still a week away from full release. What about 3 days before full release. almost no bugs, very near certainly no bugs that will be fixed before full release.

    At some point at least 24 hour or more before the full release every steam user will DE FACTO have the full release before every other outlet.   Which means Steam users are in fact being treated better, and Squad will have DE FACTO broken its promise it is users.

    Quote

    Q. Will Steam get updates before everyone else?
    A. No, all updates will be sent to all builds for all Operating Systems and distribution methods at the same time.


    Is it all a tempest in a teapot,  YES.  this is really a very small thing, it is the principal of the thing that matters.  IF they cannot keep their word on something small how will we be able to count on them keeping their word on something big.  like DRM for example

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    @mcirish3, 1.1 will be released at the same time on all PC platforms, just like previous and future updates.

    What will be released during the pre-release phase are experimental builds, no different to the builds that the experimentals team would use during that phase of a release.

    You and every other player will directly benefit from this, as Squad will then know of issues amongst a wider player base than the experimentals team, and will be able to fix any issues that arise before releasing the 1.1 version, I know you are aware that previous releases had to be patched after the fact, this helps to avoid that.

    It is unfortunate that the only sensible method to distribute the pre-release builds is via Steam, but as this entails participants frequently updating it is not something the store can handle, you have already been told this and it will not change.

    The pre-release will go ahead, and 1.1 will be a better release because of it.

    Also, I am removing your formatting, there is no need to be so melodramatic.

    I'm sure you will report this post for my above comment, be my guest.

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    1 hour ago, sal_vager said:

    @mcirish3, 1.1 will be released at the same time on all PC platforms, just like previous and future updates.

    What will be released during the pre-release phase are experimental builds, no different to the builds that the experimentals team would use during that phase of a release.

    You and every other player will directly benefit from this, as Squad will then know of issues amongst a wider player base than the experimentals team, and will be able to fix any issues that arise before releasing the 1.1 version, I know you are aware that previous releases had to be patched after the fact, this helps to avoid that.

    It is unfortunate that the only sensible method to distribute the pre-release builds is via Steam, but as this entails participants frequently updating it is not something the store can handle, you have already been told this and it will not change.

    The pre-release will go ahead, and 1.1 will be a better release because of it.

    Also, I am removing your formatting, there is no need to be so melodramatic.

    I'm sure you will report this post for my above comment, be my guest.

    I don't disagree with anything you just said.  I do take exception to the "good luck making your report stick", implied right there at the end, that was rather rude, and not very professional as a representative of squad.
     

    But as far as a refutation of what I said, it is not.   Both what I said and what you said are true.  there is no contradiction there.  I know fully why Squad did what it did.   It is efficient, expedient, and all of us will benefit.  No question about it.  

    It is still a broken promise though.  First and foremost, it is the refusal to acknowledge that it is a broken promise, that has me upset.   The principle of the thing.  Keeping a promise is not always easy, but that is exactly when it the most important time to keep it.   People will remember if you keep your promises, implied or otherwise, and will treat you in kind.   That after all is how the Golden rule works.

    Edit:  I was there when the conversations were had about how nothing will change.  When it was brought up that something like this situation could happen in the future the person was shouted down. "That will never happen" I remember members of Squad reassuring us at the time that nothing like this could happen.  I wish I could go get the web pages where the conversations happened but sadly most of the pages from that time were not archived. So i can only you give my word, which is not worth much.  Nonetheless I remember!
     

    Edited by mcirish3
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    Am I wrong to think this ultimately comes down to the broken patcher? If so, it's a pity that couldn't have been fixed in time for this release. It certainly would have prevented an awful lot of hard feelings. Either way, I hope and expect that it will be a priority once 1.1 is out.

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    8 hours ago, KasperVld said:

    Wow, haha! No, I can assure you that the decision to publish the pre-release on Steam only was made purely on practical concerns. Sales play no role there.

    Well, still, I support the decision. Probably because of my steam bias.

    @Temeter I was actually trying to give a verbose explanation on my opinion. I'm not sure "hate" qualifies when you cannot understand it. I don't hate someone for not being able to appreciate the time I spent in giving a reply to them. No offense, of course. Regardless, I believe your latter statement only includes you.

    Edited by Drakomis
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    33 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    First and foremost, it is the refusal to acknowledge that it is a broken promise, that has me upset.

    i agree

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    56 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    It is still a broken promise though.  First and foremost, it is the refusal to acknowledge that it is a broken promise, that has me upset.   The principle of the thing.  Keeping a promise is not always easy, but that is exactly when it the most important time to keep it.   People will remember if you keep your promises, implied or otherwise, and will treat you in kind.   That after all is how the Golden rule works.

    You need to remember that this is an opt-in beta test, meant mostly to be used by modders to update their mods, to prevent the same mod massacre that we experienced in 1.0.5.  If you want to have access to it to just have 1.1, you shouldn't even be considered for it.  People keep misunderstanding this one.  I agree that it shouldn't be only for Steam users, but I don't think it should be on either the KSP store or Steam.  I know it's hard to review everyone, but I think a select group of about 100-200 people who either have mods, or are willing to help with finding bugs should be made and given access via either the experimentals team, or some other method.  Either that, or give people at random the opportunity to apply to get the beta.

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    29 minutes ago, CliftonM said:

    You need to remember that this is an opt-in beta test, meant mostly to be used by modders to update their mods, to prevent the same mod massacre that we experienced in 1.0.5.

    I am not forgetting this, and that is not the point I am trying to make, I can infact do the opt in beta if I want.  Not my point, not my point at all, and I 100% agree with you.

    My point--------------> At some point at least 24 hour or more before the full release every steam user will DE FACTO have the full release before every other outlet.   Which means Steam users are in fact being treated better, and Squad will have DE FACTO broken its promise it is users.

    Furthermore, as a side point, there is absolutely no reason to think steam users will not be parading their new "toy" around especially near release when most bugs are fixed.   It will happen, Just saying.
     

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    59 minutes ago, Vanamonde said:

    Please post words, guys. Not just pictures. 

    Well, I did have words in my post (granted, it was just a few).  But, since you asked, here's my view on the issue.

    Both sides have presented (mostly) good arguments for how they feel. However, at this point pretty much everything that can be said has been, several times over by several people. I haven't seen anyone really change their stance on the issue based on any of those arguments, so it's all become an entertaining side show where the same arguments just go round and round.  

    I was attempting to draw attention to that fact, while providing a bit of levity to the situation, hopefully promoting that everyone realize that we're all talking about a much anticipated update to a game that we all love.

    For those interested, the "offending" post:

    Spoiler

    After almost a week of this, this is all I can think of when I read this thread:

    RLRmTjB.png

     

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    @mcirish3 Your first posts were almost completely 'scientific' about this topic, but now you have joined the emotional crowd.

    4 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

    My point--------------> At some point at least 24 hour or more before the full release every steam user will DE FACTO have the full release before every other outlet.   Which means Steam users are in fact being treated better, and Squad will have DE FACTO broken its promise it is users.

    Furthermore, as a side point, there is absolutely no reason to think steam users will not be parading their new "toy" around especially near release when most bugs are fixed.   It will happen, Just saying.
     

    First you imply malice regarding salvager's post (see quote below) and here you are implying that Steam users will "parade" around and - what? Make fun of the store users?

    What about being happy to get the unfiltered opinion from actual players during the development phase? Are you angry with the media group too? Should there be no information outside a tight knit group before the second the update gets released?

    6 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

    I don't disagree with anything you just said.  I do take exception to the "good luck making your report stick", implied right there at the end, that was rather rude, and not very professional as a representative of squad.

    It is still a broken promise though.  First and foremost, it is the refusal to acknowledge that it is a broken promise, that has me upset.   The principle of the thing.  Keeping a promise is not always easy, but that is exactly when it the most important time to keep it.   People will remember if you keep your promises, implied or otherwise, and will treat you in kind.   That after all is how the Golden rule works.

    Edit:  I was there when the conversations were had about how nothing will change.  When it was brought up that something like this situation could happen in the future the person was shouted down. "That will never happen" I remember members of Squad reassuring us at the time that nothing like this could happen.  I wish I could go get the web pages where the conversations happened but sadly most of the pages from that time were not archived. So i can only you give my word, which is not worth much.  Nonetheless I remember!
     

     

    7 hours ago, mcirish3 said:

    After experimentals are over and open beta starts, yes at first it the game will still be full of bugs, but what about a week later, a lot less bugs I am betting and still a week away from full release. What about 3 days before full release. almost no bugs, very near certainly no bugs that will be fixed before full release.

    At some point at least 24 hour or more before the full release every steam user will DE FACTO have the full release before every other outlet.   Which means Steam users are in fact being treated better, and Squad will have DE FACTO broken its promise it is users.


    Is it all a tempest in a teapot,  YES.  this is really a very small thing, it is the principal of the thing that matters.  IF they cannot keep their word on something small how will we be able to count on them keeping their word on something big.  like DRM for example

    Please do not make this community akin to the WoW crowd, where even a couple of days between each countries content release would create an uproar of "but than xyz can kill the new bosses first!" - it was utterly childish back then, it is completely uncalled for in a single player game.

    I think this is all that this topic has become, a question of principle. This is not a broken promise like a "but honey, I only told you there would not be any other WOMEN..." - this is "I did not think our users would see a testing phase not as something different than an actual release".

    There is a big difference between 'implied' and 'interpreted' after all.

    At the end of the day all this "tempest" will have done is either the end of future open experimentals once and for all, or the investment of money into third parties that could have gone into development of KSP one way or another.
    Good job, everyone.

    Edited by KerbMav
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    26 minutes ago, KerbMav said:

    Good job, everyone.

    cut the "everyone", since it seems to be just a few returning ones trolling up this topicc again and again to have the last word on this.

    Edited by Speadge
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    15 hours ago, Korvath85 said:

    Honestly, I'm surprised SQUAD hasn't switched to 100% steam and offered the opt-in to the steam client for buyers through other services.  This would be a good game for the Steam Workshop for mod distribution and updating.

    Honestly, many hate not everyone likes DRM. For very exact reasons.

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    7 minutes ago, Kerbal101 said:

    I hope you guys also push 1.1 update to GOG.com. I am GOG customer and prefer it much over Steam.

    If it's anything like previous releases, the finished 1.1 will be pushed to GOG, Store and Steam at around the same time. The pre-release however, at least for 1.1, is a Steam-only affair. Sorry about that.

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    2 hours ago, Kerbal101 said:

    Honestly, many hate not everyone likes DRM. For very exact reasons.

    What do those two articles have to do with this, exactly?  Darkspore closing it's doors and the Linux Game Publisher being dead in the water?  Neither are Steam,  and Steam hasn't had many if the issues other content publishers have. For example, as soon as you purchase a program, you never have to go online again. Launch the app from the file system instead of the Client. 

    Now, I'm not saying steam is a catch all, and is the best for all involved. But fir a developer the size and resources of SQUAD, my opinion is that it's the best way to go. Read: delta patching. 

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    On 05/03/2016 at 4:14 PM, comeonnow said:

    Wanting to be allowed into the opt-in beta just to play the game early is a complete perversion of the developers' intentions.  It's clear that's what people who are complaining want - they want to play the game 2 weeks early.

    This is a personal attack; you are calling everyone who is upset a liar.

    You are also wrong. I have _never_ played a new version of KSP on release day, since I always wait until my must-have mods are updated; I'm still playing 1.0.4, since I've never yet tried to update mid-mission and I'm doing a long circumnavigation.

    So, tell me why I'm suddenly going to reverse a policy I've held since circa 0.23 and install a pre-1.1 just to play it early?

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    11 minutes ago, Korvath85 said:

    What do those two articles have to do with this, exactly?  Darkspore closing it's doors and the Linux Game Publisher being dead in the water?  Neither are Steam,  and Steam hasn't had many if the issues other content publishers have.

    Steam has, however, forced through a non-trivial change of terms and conditions by offering users the choice of agreeing or losing all their games. You might think that isn't a serious issue, but I disagree.

    Given that I've also seen at least one game (Crusader Kings II) go _retroactively_ Steam-only, I'm not exactly overcome with joy at Squad treating non-Steam users as second-class citizens - let alone at the suggestion of going Steam-only.

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