Jump to content
  • Opt-in Prerelease for 1.1!


    Ted

    KSP_logo_full.png.99743e7d63a15357cde91d

     

    Hi all,

     

    As I'm sure many of you read, 1.1 is to enter Experimentals this week! It's a significant update to KSP in terms of just how much has changed under the hood. We've done a complete overhaul of the user interface from a conglomerate of interface systems to Unity 5's native system. Aside from that, an entirely new system for the wheels had to be adopted due to the major changes Unity made to the native wheels system, and the list goes on!

     

    Quality Assurance is the most bare bone part of the entire testing process and is performed by around five to ten QA testers pretty much constantly. The focussed testing and efficiency mean that instead of going through the motions of the game as a normal player would, QA tends to identify areas of the new content that would usually be prone to issue and hunt for bugs there. This cuts down the time taken to find issues by a significant margin and means that the content is tested more evenly – playtesting can sometimes skip completely past some aspects of a feature. Furthermore, this method allows the testers to work closely with the developers and compare exactly what they intended to occur for specific cases, to what actually occurs – this is where QA becomes more about feedback.

     

    QA is a lot more than just finding bugs. It’s about having the knowledge of the game (especially how it works under-the-hood), the comprehension of the ideas behind the features in the game, the understanding of what a developer wants the feature to turn out like and how you can assist them in making it happen. Furthermore, it’s about condensing all of that into concise and objectively written issue reports.

     

    The QA process on 1.1 has been going for a long time, but it has been incredibly fruitful: crushing 516 issues in 107 builds! There is still more to do however, in Experimentals we hope to only increase the stability of the game, add polish to areas and carry out some bug fixing as always!

     

    The Experimental Team comprises about 100 testers. All of these testers are volunteers who contribute their spare time to playtest the game. They are normal players, sourced from the various communities via a simple application process. Often and understandably they don’t have as much spare time to devote to testing as the QA Testers and thus there are significantly more Experimental Testers ‘signed up’ than we need at any one time. This works in everyone’s favour as it keeps the activity level throughout an Experimental Phase and doesn’t put pressure on the testers while they also deal with their personal and professional lives.

     

    After we have an update go through QA, as detailed above, it is hopefully free from major issues and each feature has had any needed major improvements and refinements carried out; the update is in a feature-complete state. However, many components of a feature may still be unpolished, such as part balancing, or the performance of newer UI on different platforms. This is where Experimental Testing comes in and assists the developers in cleaning up the remaining feedback issues.

    An Experimental Testing phase typically lasts around a couple of weeks, though it is highly dependent on the number of issues that arise and how much further development is required to reach a release state. At the end of the Experimental phase, there are still a fair amount of issues on the tracker that are still open, but it’s important to note that these issues are typically minor ones, ones that aren’t in the scope of the update or simply issues that would take too much time and resources to resolve.

     

    This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1. This opt-in branch will run for just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update.

     

    The nature and extent of the changes in the update mean that many plugins and add-ons will require refactoring, updating and at the very least a recompile. Of course modders cannot do this overnight and on the flick of a switch, especially with an update of this scope. Typically a select group of particularly KSP-savvy modders would be given access to the new update to help us find bugs, but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone.

     

    The pre-release branch will be opt-in via Steam only, and won't be available via the KSP Store. We really wanted to make the pre-release branch available on all distribution channels but given the frequency of builds, the size of those builds, and the necessity for everyone to be on the latest version for testing it proved to be impossible to facilitate this on the KSP store.

     

    To facilitate discussions of the pre-release branch we’ll be opening up a temporary forum for feedback. Additionally, a separate section will be made available on the bug tracker to report bugs on.

     

    Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have!

     

     


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    I'm curious why anyone would be upset about the timelines? Has Squad ever failed to provide? Haven't they constantly moved the product forward? They have a long enough history for me that, yes, I can't wait for 1.1, but I'd much rather have it ready, then full of bugs with tons of hot fixes after the fact. Considering 1.1 is a MAJOR overhaul of everything, I'm willing to wait until they are comfortable with a release. Yes, I would love to have it, and test it and play it, but I have faith it will come and can wait.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    5 minutes ago, TopHeavy11 said:

    ETA plz?

    Sadly, we don't know for sure and neither does Squad.

    Experimentals will probably take 2-3 weeks followed by the open beta if I'm interpreting this whole thing properly. 

    The open beta will mark T-2 weeks.

    E: When I press next (or prev, first, last, etc) this comment section freezes. Refreshing will load the requested page. Anyone else experiencing this?

    Edited by KerbonautInTraining
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Counter-factual timeline:

    17 hours ago, Squad post an announcement that they're looking to recruit an "Extended Experimentals" team. They give a run down of how it will play out but don't say "Steam Only" (despite them already being aware that it will only work there). They also let anyone interested fill in a form:

    Name:____________

    Email:____________

    Delivery platform: Store / Steam / GoG

    So, forward to right now. All I can see so far is upside. There's a lot less moaning (and, as an added bonus, far fewer "sign me up" posts). Of course, some of you (if you've applied) are living with false hope, but so be it.

    Fast forward to R -  3 Weeks. Squad looks through all of the applications. And basically say "Yes" to anyone who selected Steam and "No" to everyone else. They then send email instructions to those they've said "Yes" to with nicely personalised instructions on how to obtain access through Steam (see, that's why they needed to ask). All the "No" people are informed (but, without having a reason to suspect, what are the chances that anyone will work out the pattern to who was accepted?)

    R - 2 Weeks - the extended experimentals team get access to 1.1 builds. Builds more like 1.0.0, 1.0.1 or 1.03 rather than 1.0.2, 1.0.4 or 1.0.5.

    R - 0 Weeks - the final build of 1.1 is made available to everyone.

    Now, aside from it requiring Squad to be deeply deceptive, what, *materially* is different in this timeline versus the one that's actually been announced?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

    Now, aside from it requiring Squad to be deeply deceptive, what, *materially* is different in this timeline versus the one that's actually been announced?

    I am 100% certain that people would figure it out and cause a massive uproar, much larger than the protests we're seeing now.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I've been trying to find a way to frame this move in a good light and I simply can't.

    Since the game was introduced on Steam the company line has always been: It doesn't matter where you bought the game, you get the same privileges as everyone else. Now that is simply no longer true, users who bought through Steam are being given preferential treatment in the form of early access. While I understand that Steam is well suited to the update schedule and bandwidth requirements that beta versions need, it is frankly unacceptable to segregate our userbase and community in this way.

    All the reasons that KSP moved to a private experimentals group are still valid. Going to a public beta like this will result in a flood of low quality and duplicate bug reports, just like it was when there were no private experimentals. It will be just as hard to sift through all that feedback and separate the good from the bad (or perhaps worse, given that the userbase is much larger now).

    The entire community has been anxiously awaiting 1.1 and all the improvements it will bring, and the update has been in development for a long time so the anticipation is greater than ever. I expect that the percentage of Steam players who ignore the 1.1 beta releases and keep playing the "official release" to approach zero, whether they intend to provide bugtesting feedback or not. So we're going to have a week or two (or however long the beta lasts) of Steam players sharing their experiences with 1.1 and showing off all the new features, while the rest of the paying customers are left stewing with no legal means to get this latest version. We'll be split into haves and have-nots. How are the non-Steam customers supposed to feel about this?

    There will also be people looking for support along the lines of "I see people posting about 1.1 and sharing screenshots/videos of it, but I can't find it on the store and the patcher doesn't work. How do I get this latest version?" Is the answer to this seriously going to be "You don't, you bought it from the wrong outlet"?

    And where does this leave modders? Should they not release 1.1 versions until it's out of beta because not everyone has access? Should they release 1.1-compatible versions and stop supporting those people who don't have access to it? Or is the onus on them to maintain two releases and offer support to users installing the wrong version? Any approach here increases the support load for modders when they will presumably be working furiously to get their mods working on 1.1. How are modders who bought KSP through non-Steam outlets supposed to get a head start on updating, which is one of the beta's goals? And I don't even want to think of how CKAN will handle having two "current" versions of KSP being in the wild simultaneously, any approach there is going to cause additional support issues, too.

    So as I see it, the public beta is not going to significantly improve the bugfixing phase, while alienating the non-Steam portion of the userbase and increasing the workload on modders during their busiest time.

    I honestly do not think it is fair to our community to proceed with this plan. The way I see it the only fair ways to move forward are:

    • Allow everyone access to the beta, through whatever means are practical. Pony up for the additional store bandwidth, give Steam keys to people who bought elsewhere, fix the patcher so that incremental updates work instead of having to download the complete game on each update, use alternative hosting like is done for the demo version, or make at least the first beta version available through the store and other outlets so that those customers have *some* opportunity to try the new version.
    • If, for practical reasons, making it available to everyone is not feasible, then don't do a public beta. If more testing is needed then get more testers into the experimental group or extend the experimental period, or start a third private group for additional testers and modders who need early access.

    I write this as someone who is a fairly strong Squad supporter, who bought KSP through the store early enough that I could transfer my store purchase to Steam, and who is a member of the experimentals team. I personally would have access to the beta even if the current plan goes ahead, so I'm not just trying to get access for myself. I love this game and the community around it, this is about what is fair to that community as a whole.

    It is not "entitlement" or "whining" or "drama" to ask to be treated the same as other paying customers.

    Please consider the above as constructive criticism and reconsider this move.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    8 minutes ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

    E: When I press next (or prev, first, last, etc) this comment section freezes. Refreshing will load the requested page. Anyone else experiencing this?

    Yes. I've been opening the page number links in new tabs, which seems to bypass whatever the problem is.

    5 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

    Fast forward to R -  3 Weeks. Squad looks through all of the applications. And basically say "Yes" to anyone who selected Steam and "No" to everyone else. They then send email instructions to those they've said "Yes" to with nicely personalised instructions on how to obtain access through Steam (see, that's why they needed to ask). All the "No" people are informed (but, without having a reason to suspect, what are the chances that anyone will work out the pattern to who was accepted?)

    You are a true evil genius. I think the one material difference, though, is that your scheme is more busy work for SQUAD. Their way, they tell Valve, "Pls turn on the opt-in beta option and here's download #1, more to follow," and the opt-in distribution takes care of itself once they post the single public message with the instructions (N.B., everyone posting "sign me up" :rolleyes:). Your way, they would have to have somebody reading all of these extra messages to find out who was naughty or nice, then sending all these emails (or managing their automation) and dealing with recipients' spam folders, mistyped addresses, etc. A small but still unnecessary hassle. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 hours ago, Speadge said:

    So Just because 1/2 of the community cant use it, u r flaming around now? thats not worth it! Just accept, that it is "either steam users or noone" and stop destroying the whole "pre-release idea".

    1/2 is a bit of an exaggeration, I'm afraid.

    1 hour ago, Elway358 said:

    My only reply here is I think it's a preeetty safe bet that there is gonna be an equal amount of moaning amount bugs at the "actual release" regardless of pre release "testing." Obviously this is pure speculation and opinion on my part; Although a pretty fair assessment based on historical facts surrounding this product.

    Despite your sceptical opinion on testing, it actually works. Forums and bugtracker are full of bug reports filled in by players. 1.1 release is going to be the biggest one ever, since it's changing games' gddmn engine. Pre-release beta is a good move, reasoning behind steam-only is totally understandable.

    So, let's imagine 10k ppl opt into beta. Main mass screw around, whine on forum, etc. 500 ppl fill bug reports, 200 of the reports are actually usable and only 30 are unique. But it's 30 more issues to fix. No QA, experimental, whatever team can't find all the bugs.

    Look at some flat releases by major companies (especially  Sega, it screws up harder every time). Could open beta pre-release save them? - Yup. But hell, they are major, they need monies, they overhype community and advertise their product all over the internets. And - boom, deadline, hype - game is an unplayable buggy crap.

    Why not give some appreciation to SQUAD's attitude and delivered continued development, and chill a bit?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Paragraph 1 - 8 = Check it out guys!  You get to help us test the new version of KSP just like the old days!

    Paragraph 9 = Oh, also...The lowly old-timers get to sit on the sidelines and not participate for a few weeks. 

    I'm not mad;  just disappointed.  I've got my 18 bucks worth many times over since 0.17.1 in 2012, but paragraph 9 was a kick in the gut after getting hyped up while reading the previous 8/9ths of the article.  :(

    Edited by SuperFastJellyfish
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I'd love to test, it's just that I wont touch Steam with a ten foot pole.

    But I do understand and respect the Squad's choice so I'll just continue to deploy senseless contraptions and code along on my optimal launch calculation toy :)

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    users who bought through Steam are being given preferential treatment in the form of early access.

    It's also been stated by a member of staff that the version available in this way is not recommended for normal use. I'm not so sure that temporary access to an incomplete product is preferential treatment.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    I expect that the percentage of Steam players who ignore the 1.1 beta releases and keep playing the "official release" to approach zero, whether they intend to provide bugtesting feedback or not.

    I suspect a rather smaller proportion of players than that monitors the forum and dev notes. If this works like other betas on Steam, it'll be hidden behind a dropdown in a properties dialog, so a more casual player who just has occasional fun blowing stuff up on the launch pad will probably be on 1.0.5 till the official release, Steam or not.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    There will also be people looking for support along the lines of "I see people posting about 1.1 and sharing screenshots/videos of it, but I can't find it on the store and the patcher doesn't work. How do I get this latest version?" Is the answer to this seriously going to be "You don't, you bought it from the wrong outlet"?

    The plan is to have a separate sub-forum for the pre-release, right? It wouldn't be that hard to write a sticky post explaining what it's about. Though I don't envy the forum mods who may be faced with a flood of posts that need to be moved into that forum.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    And where does this leave modders? Should they not release 1.1 versions until it's out of beta because not everyone has access?

    No, they should not release 1.1 versions until it's out of beta because changes during beta might break such mods, because it's normal to expect a delay in mod updates, because it's very reasonable to tell people to wait two weeks (no one even needs to know if you finish early!), and because they'll need much of that time to catch up on development anyway. I may try out the pre-release, but if I do, it'll be pure stock only.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    How are modders who bought KSP through non-Steam outlets supposed to get a head start on updating, which is one of the beta's goals?

    SQUAD staff stated in this comment section that such persons should send private messages to make arrangements, so this concern seems to have been covered. Maybe that should be appended to the OP to catch the eye of non-Steam modders more readily.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    And I don't even want to think of how CKAN will handle having two "current" versions of KSP being in the wild simultaneously, any approach there is going to cause additional support issues, too.

    CKAN has the ability to track multiple versions of a mod, each tagged specifically to which KSP versions it requires. I can still switch over to my 0.90 install and add/remove compatible mods for it if I like as long as the download links haven't gone dark. So that should work out fine if some modders do decide to release early, unless I'm misunderstanding your concern.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    So as I see it, the public beta is not going to significantly improve the bugfixing phase

     

    We'll just have to wait and see; no one can honestly claim to know at this point. Presumably SQUAD will be paying careful attention to learn whether this approach makes sense for future releases.

    17 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    Please consider the above as constructive criticism and reconsider this move.

    It was quite constructive, so thank you for that and all the other efforts you've put in.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    I got ksp on steam a day or two after .21 came out. I launch from the ksp icon not from inside steam. But, I checked the steam thingy and saw NO button or marker for opt in for this beta thing for 1.1. So, its not clear how that works...

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    40 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    Since the game was introduced on Steam the company line has always been: It doesn't matter where you bought the game, you get the same privileges as everyone else.

    Red has put this more eloquently than I could. All I can add is that I've just been through the Internet Wayback Machine to look at the KSP website in September 2014, when I bought KSP for the first time.

    At this point the buy page had a link explaining the situation with Steam key transfers. It said:

    Quote

    Q. Will Steam get updates before everyone else?
    A. No, all updates will be sent to all builds for all Operating Systems and distribution methods at the same time.

    The main purchase page links to another page explaining what you get when you buy that pre-1.0 version. It said:

    Quote

    By purchasing Kerbal Space Program, you are entitled to the following:
    - Access to the software in its current state.
    - Access to all updates for the software.
    By 'updates' we mean software updates including content, features and bugfixes, released as a new version for the same title, before or after the official ("1.0") release of the software.

    I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm still playing 1.0.4 and I have never yet played a new version when first released. However, it seems clear that Squad are proposing to break that promise they made in very clear language.

    That's what's wrong with Snark's analyses in these threads; they're missing step 0, keep your promises to your users even if they become inconvenient.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Well, it seems any of our hopes to have any way of participating in the 1.1 prerelease have been shot down or ignored by devs, so I'm just done. You win, we will have to wait the extra half month, life goes on.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

    I got ksp on steam a day or two after .21 came out. I launch from the ksp icon not from inside steam. But, I checked the steam thingy and saw NO button or marker for opt in for this beta thing for 1.1. So, its not clear how that works...

    This pre-release branch isn't available yet, we have to go through experimental testing first. One it becomes available we'll post information on how to access it.

     

    1 minute ago, damerell said:

    I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm still playing 1.0.4 and I have never yet played a new version when first released. However, it seems clear that Squad are proposing to break that promise they made in very clear language.

    No, the update will release for everyone at the same time. The pre-release branch consists of in-development builds that can and will break in many and unexpected ways. It is meant for people who want to update mods, or help find bugs. As I stated earlier I would not recommend using these versions for regular gameplay.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, damerell said:

    Red has put this more eloquently than I could. All I can add is that I've just been through the Internet Wayback Machine to look at the KSP website in September 2014, when I bought KSP for the first time.

    At this point the buy page had a link explaining the situation with Steam key transfers. It said:

    The main purchase page links to another page explaining what you get when you buy that pre-1.0 version. It said:

    I don't have a dog in this fight; I'm still playing 1.0.4 and I have never yet played a new version when first released. However, it seems clear that Squad are proposing to break that promise they made in very clear language.

    That's what's wrong with Snark's analyses in these threads; they're missing step 0, keep your promises to your users even if they become inconvenient.

    Is it really so hard to understand this isn't an official update but a prerelease beta. >_>

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

    When I press next (or prev, first, last, etc) this comment section freezes. Refreshing will load the requested page. Anyone else experiencing this?

    I have noticed this myself.

     

     

    56 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    Please consider the above as constructive criticism and reconsider this move.

    Very well said.  Thank you.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    7 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    Is it really so hard to understand this isn't an official update but a prerelease beta. >_>

    Who on reading "No, all updates will be sent to all builds for all Operating Systems and distribution methods at the same time" would have reasonably predicted the caveat "unless it's a certain kind of update in which case we'll give it to whoever we like"?

    Once you're rules-lawyering over exactly what that sentence means, rather than taking it to mean what it says, you've already decided to break your promise to everyone who bought the game through the store. It should not come as a surprise that they are upset.

    Edited to fend off the obvious response: a reasonable person can tell the difference between "a prerelease build offered to specific modders" and "a build offered to every Steam user". The latter is manifestly not a "prerelease" anything. It has been released.

    Edited by damerell
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, damerell said:

    Once you're rules-lawyering over exactly what that sentence means, rather than taking it to mean what it says, you've already decided to break your promise to everyone who bought the game through the store. It should not come as a surprise that they are upset.

    But that rule was there in 2014 and not now right? I'm pretty sure they can change them, but let's not make this into a legal debate.

    Also:

    "but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone."

    I feel this isn't 100% truthful....

    Edited by KerbonautInTraining
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

     When I press next (or prev, first, last, etc) this comment section freezes. Refreshing will load the requested page. Anyone else experiencing this?

    Yep, me too.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

    But that rule was there in 2014 and not now right? I'm pretty sure they can change them, but let's not make this into a legal debate.

    I'm pretty sure they can't; when I bought the game from the store it did not have (Steam-style) T&Cs attached that say they can change to be anything retrospectively, and of course such conditions are not permissible under EU consumer protection law anyway.

    But it's not a point about the legality; it's a point about broken promises. Whether or not you can enforce it in court, what that _says_ is that store users are never going to be second-class citizens compared to Steam users. Now we are.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    3 minutes ago, damerell said:

    Who on reading "No, all updates will be sent to all builds for all Operating Systems and distribution methods at the same time" would have reasonably predicted the caveat "unless it's a certain kind of update in which case we'll give it to whoever we like"?

    Once you're rules-lawyering over exactly what that sentence means, rather than taking it to mean what it says, you've already decided to break your promise to everyone who bought the game through the store. It should not come as a surprise that they are upset.

    It's not an update to the game if you have to take several steps to gain access to a dev-branch in which you're willingly accepting that things may break and don't work for normal play. If you try to establish your reason with this line in the rules it doesn't really apply as this would be a step back from an official release into a beta again. Does not make sense because no developer would do this as "official" update to a game which is already released. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    9 minutes ago, damerell said:

    Who on reading "No, all updates will be sent to all builds for all Operating Systems and distribution methods at the same time" would have reasonably predicted the caveat "unless it's a certain kind of update in which case we'll give it to whoever we like"?

    Once you're rules-lawyering over exactly what that sentence means, rather than taking it to mean what it says, you've already decided to break your promise to everyone who bought the game through the store. It should not come as a surprise that they are upset.

    You still don't seem to understand these beta updates. They aren't anything new, they were always there, just as closed beta instead of open beta. Read OP, it even explains modders always got early access.

    Now more people than before got access, and at the same time people start complaining, which is completely ridiculous. Result is most likely gonna be Squad reverting to closed updates after 1.1.

    Edited by Temeter
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 hour ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    snip

    Thank you for that post. I've been struggling to say the same things, just couldn't seem to find the right words without sounding harsh. I can't say enough how disappointed I am that I have to sit back and watch as all the Steam users get early access. But, I must say that the only thing we are really losing is the early access. We still will get to have our feedback later on down the road. It's not like this is the last chance to be involved with the game's future. But, yeah, kinda feels like a slap in the face.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Guest
    This is now closed for further comments

×
×
  • Create New...