Jump to content
  • Opt-in Prerelease for 1.1!


    Ted
     Share

    KSP_logo_full.png.99743e7d63a15357cde91d

     

    Hi all,

     

    As I'm sure many of you read, 1.1 is to enter Experimentals this week! It's a significant update to KSP in terms of just how much has changed under the hood. We've done a complete overhaul of the user interface from a conglomerate of interface systems to Unity 5's native system. Aside from that, an entirely new system for the wheels had to be adopted due to the major changes Unity made to the native wheels system, and the list goes on!

     

    Quality Assurance is the most bare bone part of the entire testing process and is performed by around five to ten QA testers pretty much constantly. The focussed testing and efficiency mean that instead of going through the motions of the game as a normal player would, QA tends to identify areas of the new content that would usually be prone to issue and hunt for bugs there. This cuts down the time taken to find issues by a significant margin and means that the content is tested more evenly – playtesting can sometimes skip completely past some aspects of a feature. Furthermore, this method allows the testers to work closely with the developers and compare exactly what they intended to occur for specific cases, to what actually occurs – this is where QA becomes more about feedback.

     

    QA is a lot more than just finding bugs. It’s about having the knowledge of the game (especially how it works under-the-hood), the comprehension of the ideas behind the features in the game, the understanding of what a developer wants the feature to turn out like and how you can assist them in making it happen. Furthermore, it’s about condensing all of that into concise and objectively written issue reports.

     

    The QA process on 1.1 has been going for a long time, but it has been incredibly fruitful: crushing 516 issues in 107 builds! There is still more to do however, in Experimentals we hope to only increase the stability of the game, add polish to areas and carry out some bug fixing as always!

     

    The Experimental Team comprises about 100 testers. All of these testers are volunteers who contribute their spare time to playtest the game. They are normal players, sourced from the various communities via a simple application process. Often and understandably they don’t have as much spare time to devote to testing as the QA Testers and thus there are significantly more Experimental Testers ‘signed up’ than we need at any one time. This works in everyone’s favour as it keeps the activity level throughout an Experimental Phase and doesn’t put pressure on the testers while they also deal with their personal and professional lives.

     

    After we have an update go through QA, as detailed above, it is hopefully free from major issues and each feature has had any needed major improvements and refinements carried out; the update is in a feature-complete state. However, many components of a feature may still be unpolished, such as part balancing, or the performance of newer UI on different platforms. This is where Experimental Testing comes in and assists the developers in cleaning up the remaining feedback issues.

    An Experimental Testing phase typically lasts around a couple of weeks, though it is highly dependent on the number of issues that arise and how much further development is required to reach a release state. At the end of the Experimental phase, there are still a fair amount of issues on the tracker that are still open, but it’s important to note that these issues are typically minor ones, ones that aren’t in the scope of the update or simply issues that would take too much time and resources to resolve.

     

    This time around though, things will get even more interesting after Experimental testing! Given that update 1.1 will be unlike any update we’ve seen to date in terms of widespread changes to pretty much any significant and underlying system in the game we're planning to provide an optional pre-release branch of update 1.1. This opt-in branch will run for just under two full weeks before the targeted release date of the final update.

     

    The nature and extent of the changes in the update mean that many plugins and add-ons will require refactoring, updating and at the very least a recompile. Of course modders cannot do this overnight and on the flick of a switch, especially with an update of this scope. Typically a select group of particularly KSP-savvy modders would be given access to the new update to help us find bugs, but the extent of the changes this time around is such that we feel we should open it up to everyone.

     

    The pre-release branch will be opt-in via Steam only, and won't be available via the KSP Store. We really wanted to make the pre-release branch available on all distribution channels but given the frequency of builds, the size of those builds, and the necessity for everyone to be on the latest version for testing it proved to be impossible to facilitate this on the KSP store.

     

    To facilitate discussions of the pre-release branch we’ll be opening up a temporary forum for feedback. Additionally, a separate section will be made available on the bug tracker to report bugs on.

     

    Please feel free to ask any and all questions you have!

     

     

     Share


    User Feedback

    Recommended Comments



    17 minutes ago, Wallygator said:

    Some grapes have seeds you know. 

    Also, It is strange that there are so many grapes being offered here and yet all we get is whine. 

    Snare roll and hi hat please...

    A grape with seeds is better than no grape at all, no matter how you slice it.

    I also want to stress avoiding the problem will be far less resource intensive than fixing the problem after it happens.  This should be more than enough motivation for squad and the users alike.

    2 minutes ago, Gwtheyrn said:

    I really liked this community. I thought it was neat, science savvy, friendly, and fun. Though, as I read through these coments today, it's revealed itself to be little better than a typical Reddit page. There's flames and salt going around, and now even folk claiming to be better or more important users because of where they purchased the game. There's people who've become entrenched in their positions, reinforced by their own echo chamber, and unwilling to listen to anyone else no matter what they have to say, even going so far as to imply that Kasper is lying to them and there's secret nefarious intentions. I'm just really disappointed in the whole community today. This is childish.

    Good luck and goodbye. I'm out. Don't want to be a part of a group this toxic.

    You probably wont read this but you should read the post I made just a little up stream, it might help you understand it all.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 minutes ago, Gwtheyrn said:

    I really liked this community. I thought it was neat, science savvy, friendly, and fun. Though, as I read through these coments today, it's revealed itself to be little better than a typical Reddit page. There's flames and salt going around, and now even folk claiming to be better or more important users because of where they purchased the game. There's people who've become entrenched in their positions, reinforced by their own echo chamber, and unwilling to listen to anyone else no matter what they have to say, even going so far as to imply that Kasper is lying to them and there's secret nefarious intentions. I'm just really disappointed in the whole community today. This is childish.

    Good luck and goodbye. I'm out. Don't want to be a part of a group this toxic.

    Where were the people saying there was lying?

    (And, I never said I was better, but that my choice to get it off the store was mostly in support, but I hadn't the foresight that something like this would occur)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    33 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:


    Alo as far as the flame war goes:

      You have group one who correctly sees the pre-release a a bonus for themselves and the community and are confused as to why group three can't see this as a positive for all of us.
     

    As for Group three they correctly state "BUT hey we can't have three grapes even though at first we were offered three grapes"( again the way the OP presented this made it even worse) "we lost a grape that really sucks even if I did not want the extra grape it still really sucks" (loss aversion).  They are mad at group one for not recognizing the fact they they lost a grape.

    I'd say this is more like Squad unexpectedly gave an earlier, unripe half of grape 3 out to some people, but can't do the same for others because of delivery issues, only guaranting the final ripe grapes to everyone.

    Until now Squad always stated they wouldn't do open experimentals because of all the drama and issues with inefficient reporting (which might be partially fixed through steam). That's why the idea, Squad goes against their promise, isn't completely correct. They are kinda going against their original public stand.

    It's even more questionable because the people being bothered by the decision, even if very understandable, are finally arguing by the basis of 'if I don't get a pre-release, nobody should'.

    Edited by Temeter
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    1 minute ago, Temeter said:

    I'd say this is more like Squad unexpectedly gave an unrip half of grape 3 out to some people, but can't do the same for others because of delivery issues, only guaranting the ripe grapes to everyone.

    Until now Squad always stated they wouldn't do open experimentals because of all the drama and issues with inefficient reporting (which might be partially fixed through steam). That's why the idea, Squad goes against their promise, isn't completely correct. They are kinda going against their original public stand.

    Dude read the post just above the one you quoted, watch the video and listen to the podcast then talk.  Knowledge makes all the difference.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    7 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    It's even more questionable because the people being bothered by the decision, even if very understandable, are finally arguing by the basis of 'if I don't get a pre-release, nobody should'.

    Except Squad made , at least implicitly, a promise that they would not treat any group different depending upon where the game was purchased, however it does matter now doesn't it.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    20 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    Dude read the post just above the one you quoted, watch the video and listen to the podcast then talk.  Knowledge makes all the difference.

    Not even necessary to watch the video, I think I know exactly what you are trying to say. Of course these reactions are human and honest, I was bothered too when I first heard it's steam only, because I stayed on my steam store release. Then switched to steam because I kinda realized there isn't really a cost in going for steam anymore, if anything it's more comfortable.

    But now matter if I got beta-access or not, I wouldn't have argued for nobody to get the pre-beta just because I couldn't. Because that's a bit of a dick move and really just costs me in the long run. Why do you think there are mods available as soon as an0 update of KSP officially releases?

    14 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    Except Squad made , at least implicitly, a promise that they would not treat any group different depending upon where the game was purchased, however it does matter now doesn't it.

    Talking about promises, these updates aren't new. Again, there are always were closed pre-release betas, as well as preview versions given out to modders and even streamers. There was even a small minority complaining about this stuff, seeing other getting the new stuff early. So there isn't actually anything new about all of this, they just expanded the amount of people getting the beta.

    No matter as to how honest their feelings might have been, no matter as to how socio-economics understand this, this behaviour is still immature and I've got the intention call that out. Frankly, people complaining on the internet is taken far to seriously anyway. You can count the people being bothered in this threads on a few hands.

    Problem is, vocal minorities are nowhere louder than on the web, and many companies are struggling with understanding these issues, being terrified of angering a customer base and basically act based on said minorities. Majority of KSP's player base will actually never even learn of the pre-release, as much as they don't seem to know these beta-processes are old.

    Edited by Temeter
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    55 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    What squad has accessed in its user bases in this open beta test is the natural human aversion to loss. 

    What I have an aversion to is bait and switch. (I don't even know if I'm in your group two or group three). When I bought KSP I already had grave misgivings about Steam. I'd already seen a significant Steam T&Cs change forced through with the threat of "or lose all your games"; I'd already had one non-Steam purchase from Paradox change retroactively to be a Steam purchase; I'd already got some reservations about _anyone_ becoming a de facto monopoly in digital games distribution, not helped by the increasing number of Steam-only titles.

    I bought KSP not just because it wasn't Steam, but because of what appeared to me to be a clear promise never to treat non-Steam users as second-class citizens. So yes, now I'm upset; and also now I'm concerned, because I don't know what else is going to change under my feet now I know I can be treated as a second-class citizen.

    The straightforward "it's easier to do this testing via Steam" argument (which mirish3 was not advancing) misses that the cost to Squad of leaving everyone who bought KSP via the store feeling betrayed might be hard to measure, but it still exists.

    I also suspect a "pricing and financial analyst for a large electronics distributor" with billions in sales would be able to use punctuation, but that's besides the point.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    Not even necessary to watch the video, I think I know exactly what you are trying to say. Of course these reactions are human and honest, I was bothered too when I first heard it's steam only, because I stayed on my steam store release. Then switched to steam because I kinda realized there isn't really a cost in going for steam anymore, if anything it's more comfortable

    But now matter if I got the release or not, I wouldn't have argued for nobody to get the pre-beta just because I couldn't. Because that's a bit of a dick move and really just costs me in the long run.

    Talking about promises, these updates aren't new. Again, there are always were closed pre-release betas, as well as preview versions given out to modders and even streamers. There was even a small minority complaining about this stuff, seeing other getting the new stuff early. So there isn't actually anything new about all of this, they just expanded the amount of people getting the beta.

    No matter as to how honest their feelings might have been, no matter as to how socio-economics understand this, this behaviour is still immature and I've got the intention call that out. Frankly, people complaining on the internet is taken far to seriously anyway. You can count the people being bothere in this threads on a few hands.

    Problem is, vocal minorities are nowhere louder than on the web, and many companies are struggling with understanding these issues, being terrified of angering a customer base and basically act based on said minorities. Majority of KSP's player base will actually never learn of the pre-release.

    I think a large part of your basis is that everyone is saying 'If I cant have it, noone can!', because only a few are saying that. My statements were merely that I payed the same and it felt bad to be treated as a second class customer due to my platform choice, and I, whether justly or not, felt that squad should be expected to possibly pay a bit for the ability to put less man hours and get more done as far as bugfixes and allow all to have it. As previously stated, by using the amazon listings I found that if on average 5000 people download from the store per day (The amount that KasperVld mentioned), the cost would be < 6000$. And as I do not know their financial situation, I myself cannot claim whether or not that is feasable, but from estimates I have heard that KSP has had over a million sales thus far, that pricepoint doesn't seem to crazy to me, especially for now getting double the bugtesters (and also double those who just play and dont bugtest, but thats beside the point), and possibly leading to a more polished update. Although I could be wrong, maybe SQUAD is in bad financial situations, or are seeing a decline in KSP sales strong enough that they may need to keep as much savings as possible to stay afloat, I really dont know.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    9 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    Talking about promises, these updates aren't new. Again, there are always were closed pre-release betas, as well as preview versions given out to modders and even streamers.

    A reasonable non-Steam user can distinguish a pre-release beta offered to a selected few (whether or not they used Steam) to a beta released to the majority of the playerbase (unless they don't use Steam). The latter is a betrayal of the promise not to treat non-Steam users as second-class citizens, where the former is not, which is why the latter has non-Steam users upset and why the idea that this isn't new doesn't stand up to close examination.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    8 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    Talking about promises, these updates aren't new. Again, there are always were closed pre-release betas, as well as preview versions given out to modders and even streamers. There was even a small minority complaining about this stuff, seeing other getting the new stuff early. So there isn't actually anything new about all of this, they just expanded the amount of people getting the beta.

    Oh, but this is something new. The experimentals group is, at least nominally, selected based on merit: You have to demonstrate that you can provide useful, constructive feedback during testing. The group is small so there is pressure to actually do testing and share the feedback; as I understand it testers that go inactive get removed from the group. And most importantly, the exps testers are under NDA and discuss the experimental versions in places out of public view. So people who weren't included in the exps group did not have to read about it and feel envious or excluded.

    This beta is different. The only requirement is that you bought through Steam. There is no onus to provide any useful feedback, users can just play with the new toys and let everyone else do the work. And worst, the subforum for the beta will be public, and there's nothing stopping people from sharing their screenshots and video all over the forum while those who have to wait can do nothing but wait. All because they bought through a venue that put more money in the developers' pockets, while being told that where you bought it would not affect access to future versions.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    32 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    Snip

    You have group one who correctly sees the pre-release a a bonus for themselves and the community and are confused as to why group three can't see this as a positive for all of us.
     

    22 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

    Snip

    As for Group three they are mad at group one for not recognizing the fact they they lost a grape.



    Case in point!

    Edited by mcirish3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    43 minutes ago, nosirrbro said:

    I think a large part of your basis is that everyone is saying 'If I cant have it, noone can!', because only a few are saying that. My statements were merely that I payed the same and it felt bad to be treated as a second class customer due to my platform choice, and I, whether justly or not, felt that squad should be expected to possibly pay a bit for the ability to put less man hours and get more done as far as bugfixes and allow all to have it. As previously stated, by using the amazon listings I found that if on average 5000 people download from the store per day (The amount that KasperVld mentioned), the cost would be < 6000$. And as I do not know their financial situation, I myself cannot claim whether or not that is feasable, but from estimates I have heard that KSP has had over a million sales thus far, that pricepoint doesn't seem to crazy to me, especially for now getting double the bugtesters (and also double those who just play and dont bugtest, but thats beside the point), and possibly leading to a more polished update. Although I could be wrong, maybe SQUAD is in bad financial situations, or are seeing a decline in KSP sales strong enough that they may need to keep as much savings as possible to stay afloat, I really dont know.

    That's assumptions for now, tho. I don't think this is about money: It takes a lot of time to set up a completely new infrastructure for fast updates and bug processing, it's not just about cost. My idea would be, it's probably just not worth it for two weeks. You aren't asking to spend 6k or anything, but to build a new steam-like platform. Don't think the patcher, if it even works atk, is built for that.

    36 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

    Oh, but this is something new. The experimentals group is, at least nominally, selected based on merit: You have to demonstrate that you can provide useful, constructive feedback during testing. The group is small so there is pressure to actually do testing and share the feedback; as I understand it testers that go inactive get removed from the group. And most importantly, the exps testers are under NDA and discuss the experimental versions in places out of public view. So people who weren't included in the exps group did not have to read about it and feel envious or excluded.

    Well, all mass betas are kinda built around the idea of quantity>quality, at least in some respect. Which tbh didn't work out that well for KSP.^^'

    That's why I'm also pointing out the media release. Ofc that stuf does make you a bit envious as well, but that doesn't mean it's not a bad idea. In fact, that's almost a plus. Thing is, people could live with it.

    Quote

    This beta is different. The only requirement is that you bought through Steam. There is no onus to provide any useful feedback, users can just play with the new toys and let everyone else do the work. And worst, the subforum for the beta will be public, and there's nothing stopping people from sharing their screenshots and video all over the forum while those who have to wait can do nothing but wait. All because they bought through a venue that put more money in the developers' pockets, while being told that where you bought it would not affect access to future versions.

    I agree that's not optimal, but I think it's at least understandable. The KSP store just lacks any kind of infrastructure to reliable do updates like steam. My issue here is really, that at this point a plus to some people is considered worse than a plus to nobody. And as said, I'm seeing this whole thing as an unexpected plus. And I think the open discussion would definitly help the game, e.g. public feedback seemed to have a huge impact to the changes after KSP 1.0.

    Yeah, sucks the store won't/can't do the beta thing, but at the same time Squad themselves always denied planning this kind of beta again in the first place, so it's not exactly like breaking a promise.

     

    21 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    As for Group three they correctly state "BUT hey we can't have three grapes even though at first we were offered three grapes"( again the way the OP presented this made it even worse) "we lost a grape that really sucks even if I did not want the extra grape it still really sucks" (loss aversion).  They are mad at group one for not recognizing the fact they they lost a grape.

    But are the feelings of group 3 relevant enought to hurt everybody? Mind, there is a huge difference between people not being able to get the beta and people complaining about the situation, so the vocal group 3 might be only a fraction of an actual group. So is this 'group 3' even big enough to matter? Will they even care after a few days?

    Edited by Temeter
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    On 02/03/2016 at 11:08 PM, MrWilliam932 said:

    Awesome! I can't wait!

    It's not just awesome, this is KSP 1.1!!! KSP is Utterly Epic and V1.1 should be worshipped! I may be a 2871 hours newb and I have not escaped from Eve since before V1 but I know KSP is better than Awesome! Remember ALT + F12 is not for proper men!(or women!(or cattle))

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    DId you read the posts up thread? Because if you had you would know that I never said:

    5 minutes ago, Speadge said:

    following ur logic to treat all the same way would mean: noone gets the beta

    nore did I imply that.

    How does understanding how others feel and think lead to what you said?

    Start here:

     

    Edited by mcirish3
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Great.  Another beta test group I'm not allow to participate in, this time because I didn't purchase through steam.   Really, an opt-in beta for a fully released game is silly.  On the other hand, I can understand why Squad wants to retreat back into the world of "it's still beta".

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Before I check out on the Steam Store and purchase another copy of KSP, just so I can take part in the experimentals, I want to express how disappointed I am. This feels like a slap in the face to all of the users that purchased through the KSP store and not Steam. Granted I was a latecomer to the party, I found out about KSP just before the 0.90 update, I wanted to ensure that every penny I put into the game went to the developers and not to Valve. I wanted to know that I helped an independent company, that I wanted to succeed, put out the best product they possibly could. That is not to imply that anyone that purchased through Steam is a lesser user, or likes Squad more or less than me. It is simply my thought process.

    KSP is not a shooter, it is not a platformer, it is not a fighting game. KSP is a simulator and a darn good one at that. With KSP my daughters and I have stood on the moon, where Neil Armstorng and Buzz Aldrin walked. We flew by Pluto as we watched the Science Channel's documentary on New Horizons. We saw how close we could get to the Sun without exploding. I thank Squad (and the modders that helped make it possible) for these moments. The people that play KSP are the type of people that love experimenting and would provide feedback. Whereas, many Steam users will have just seen the game in their Discovery Queue or on a advertisement in the store. That is not to say that all Steam users have no love or passion for the game. Nor is it meant to imply that Steam users would not provide the feedback Squad is looking for. I am stating that I feel the percentage of users in the KSP store, versus the install base, that would provide feedback would be higher than the percentage of Steam users, again versus the install base, that would provide feedback. 

    That being said, I also understand the frustrations of a small company that cannot handle the infrastructure required to push the updates and support the traffic required to maintain the update schedule the experimental releases will cause. But, perception is reality and the perception here is that the Store users can simply wait it out and be happy with a final product. Though, even in the article you clearly say you want to open the testing to everyone. Then your next sentence is "opt-in via Steam only". This is hardly everyone.

    I am fortunate, an additional $40 to purchase a second copy of the game is not a financial burden to me. There are many that would love to provide feedback that this may not be the case. 

    Again, thank you Squad for one of my favorite games of all times. And to the modders that make it more accessible to everyone out there. I will end my rant here.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    17 minutes ago, Drakomis said:

    I am quite surprised no one has called Squad out on the economic move it just made here.

    You mean motivating people to buy their game through an indirect source that results in less revenue?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    More posts have been removed from this thread. Please do not derail the discussion with personal feuds, and instead talk about the subject rather than each other. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    2 minutes ago, Temeter said:

    You mean motivating people to buy their game through an indirect source that results in less revenue?

    I am going to go with Yes, though I did not make the statement.  I guess maybe it is becuase to most people never stopped to think about it.  The less revenue part is true but I am betting that Steam is a lot less hassle to maintain and deal with than their own servers.  So maybe it is a wash, and when the users are all on steam the devs have more time to do well... dev stuff.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    4 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

    I am going to go with Yes, though I did not make the statement.  I guess maybe it is becuase to most people never stopped to think about it.  The less revenue part is true but I am betting that Steam is a lot less hassle to maintain and deal with than their own servers.  So maybe it is a wash, and when the users are all on steam the devs have more time to do well... dev stuff.

    Come on, now we're drifting into the realms of conspiracy theories.

    All the while we exactly now that constant and fast updating isn't possible through the KSP store.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites




    Guest
    This is now closed for further comments

×
×
  • Create New...