miyuruasuka

The bug was in RealismOverhaul. It attempts to overwrite all the engines. It will be fixed, apparently, in the next version of RO. Sorry for bothering!

Apparently not. The mentioned file seems to attempt to put ModuleEnginesRF on everything to hack RealPlume on all engines. It broke KSPI horribly. After removing it, KSPI works perfectly and there doesn't seem to be anything else that has broken.

As I said, there's no specific config file that mentions the engine. StoryMusgrave's suggested hack (in the RO thread) of removing "RealismOverhaul/RealPlume_Configs/000_Generic_Plumes_Catchall/000_ModuleEnginesFixer.cfg" works perfectly for me. (By the way, why do I have to keep repeating that this is not due to RO having a broken config that changes the engine? This is a problem with RO attempting to convert everything to Real Fuels even for engines that already support RF fuel names using the stock fuel system, and has *nothing* to do with there being a config changing the engine.)

Thanks, I'll try and see whether it works. By the way, what's the rationale for RO touching engines that it doesn't have configs for?

So over at the Real Fuels and KSPI Extended threads, I've been trying to hunt down what's causing KSPI Extended engines to not scale thrust when propellants change, a bug that happens only when Real Fuels + Realism Overhaul is installed. Considering that KSPI Extended engines are labeled "non RO", I was not expecting RO to touch the engines at all, but somehow it breaks the engines. StoryMusgrave claims that RealismOverhaul "touch[es] ALL engines by changing them from ModuleEngines/FX to ModuleEnginesRF", and that this probably broke the engines. Is this true? If so, is there some way to force RealismOverhaul to *completely* ignore certain engines?

I'm not claiming it's a Real Fuels issue. As the other user said, it's probably because RealismOverhaul is "steamrollering" over everything. I was just asking whether there was a workaround (say, by config file) or not; I have no intention to blame RF. RO is weird in that it touches *every* engine whether there's a config for it for not, and somehow this touching breaks KSPI but not most other "non RO" mods. I'll post about this in the RO thread.

So if I understand correctly, there is no way of working around this issue unless ModuleEngineRF fixes its steamrolling over non-RO engines?

The "4.0 kN" thrust value is essentially pulled out of some @$$. It also doesn't scale with different fuels. It's also wrong in asserting that the engine consumes LiquidFuel only: it consumes all sorts of fuels, and they all work properly, with the correct Isp even, but the thrust is always stuck at the totally wrong 4 kN value. Removing RealismOverhaul/RealFuels makes the bug disappear. Clearly something is forcing the engine to ignore KSPI when calculating its own thrust; however, scouring the whole GameData directory I couldn't find any ModuleManager patch patching over this engine specifically. KSPI also does set the thrust correctly *somewhere*: MechJeb thinks the thrust is the value given in the KSPI documentation, and thus is also massively confused.

I'm the user who reported the problem. I'm fairly sure that the engine pack (Realism Overhaul) did not touch the affected engines. In fact, the affected engines have "(non RO)" displayed over them. Perhaps it's the attaching of the "non RO" label that messed things up? The engines are also not "altered" in the sense that any specs, ModuleManager-wise, seems to have changed. Instead, there's a new field "Real Fuels" in the VAB part description, and the thrust is stuck at the value in that field rather than varying procedurally (based on the fuel given, reactors, etc).

Can you explain exactly in what way is RealFuels taking control over engines? I think this is simply because KSPI doesn't use SolverEngines, and I think that you should consider moving to it, because AJE and a few other mods also use SolverEngines.

It happens with all the engines. It's always stuck to the thrust listed in the VAB. Please fix this ASAP, it makes Interstellar really unplayable for me because I rely heavily on RealFuels. I'm ending up only using the reactors for electricity. Edit: I'm guessing this has something to do with RealFuels' usage of SolverEngines (similar to AJE); could you look into better integration with SolverEngines with KSP Interstellar, maybe even use SolverEngines to implement thrust switching etc?

No, the issues is not with MechJeb. There is no issue as long as Real Fuels is not installed. Please see these screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/HqPe0. The thrust should be 12.4 kN in space, and it is without RealFuels, but with RealFuels it's stuck at 4 kN. *This* is what confuses MechJeb, because it's getting conflicting values from different places.

When RealFuels is installed, KSP Interstellar's engines have the wrong thrust values. Essentially, no matter the choice of reactor, etc, the thrust is always fixed at a particular, arbitrary value. The easiest way to reproduce this would be to get the CANDLE and turn it on. It always produces 4 kN in vacuum, no matter what type of fuel you give it, although the Isp does properly change. This is more than a nuisance even though the wrong value is generally in the right order of magnitude, because MechJeb and other similar tools actually think that the maximum thrust is the correct value, when in reality it's stuck at, say, 4 kN for the CANDLE. This means that MechJeb starts burns at the wrong time, crashes probes attempting to use the landing autopilot, etc.

Random thing: shouldn't the first page and the title be updated? I was really confused for a while and thought AJE had been suddenly abandoned, since I see "April" and "[0.90]"...

That is something I will definitely do once I get back home. It would be on 0.90 with the last stable version of AJE, though. - - - Updated - - - It's a constant, though. In real life, for a converging nozzle, it should start near 1, and approach 0 as the speed increases. Currently, there is no speed (according to AJESolverTester) at which a turbofan would start to produce "negative" thrust. The NetThrust decreases as ram drag increases, but after a certain point, the increasing thrust overpowers it, and goes into speedy ramjet mode. I'll demonstrate this once I get on my KSP computer.