Psycho_zs

Streetwind, that seems to be a great suggestion. Another thought: insulators can come handy even with stock mechanics (I doubt that conductors would have any use in that case). So switching global/local may be required even for HC.

Sorry if I accidentally contributed to the hostility. I hope, I didn't. On contrary, I'm glad that stock heat mechanics is evolving. I would gladly change my vote to A, but as it was said, global cooling simplifies gameplay compared to HC. I wonder if radiators have any other cfg parameters except those that actually used in stock configs? And what does radiatorHeadroom do?

B1, no fridge. Cheap, but without boost. Radiators should have high skinInternalConductionMult to allow heat to pass through skin flawlessly. It is strange: stock skin is not tweakable, but I see a wide range of skin mass ratios across parts.

Yeah, modify them to use HC logic, but with one exception: no 'fridge circuit', make them unable to heat above parent part.

Anyway, skin is a big step forward for stock heat model. Although, according to Starwaster, skin is not tweakable.

First thought: hide stock radiators. HC radiators can heat up more than parent part, which means they pump heat carrier through a circuit with pressure difference, like fridges. They draw power, but they are efficient. Stock radiators are passive, but use trickery with heat routing and instant transfer. Well, strip them of these tricks, beef up conductivity and emissivity, leave as high conductivity passive emissive radiators, increase mass and cost.

The other look like from DRE. The only one actually present in stock is skinInternalConductionMult. Is there any official list for modders? I wonder if there is more stock parameters, but unused.

Isn't skinMassPerArea for fairings mass?

Anybody knows if stock skin has mass-ratio/thickness parameter?

Stock radiators have "emissiveConstant = 0.90", while wings still have 0.95. hm... I wonder what "radiatorHeadroom" parameter does. Folding radiators also have "skinInternalConductionMult = 2000", while static do not. It seems to be practical infinity since engines have 4.0. Throwing in some ideas: Radiator switchable to suck heat either from skin or from inside of parent part (yeah, I already posted that). It can be used in conjunction with reactors if Nertea decides to implement core as stock internal portion of the reactor. But I can't seem find the stock parameter that sets ratio of skin mass.

Looks like they overnerfed exhaust heat. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/126311-1-0-3-Heating-oversight Any chance beefing it up a bit here? LOL

Not all the gas would be able to transfer it's momentum to the target, some of it will flow around, some will be deflected sideways, giving only part of forward momentum. Anyway, exhaust temperature transfer still looks odd.

Well, I doubt that already expanded gas blown at a part from nearby can move it with almost the same efficiency as Sepratron strapped directly to it. And... about temperature: Flea burns 750kgs of fuel in 5,5 seconds. Sepratron burns 60kgs in 4 seconds. Same fuel, close timing, but an order of magnitude difference in quantity. Flea should dump about 9 times more heat per second. Yet they both burn the test plates simultaneously.

Hi! Found the thing that bugs me... Engine exhaust heat and impulse. I've tested Spark, Terier, Reliant, Flea and Separatron in a rig, each pointed at a structural plate. Separatron and Flea burned through their plates in about 5 seconds, while LFO engines took very long time to do it, and the beefiest Reliant was not the best at it. Separatron also transmits ridiculous momentum via it's exhaust (other engines too, but not so pronounced). Rigged two wheeled weights with Separatrons on one of them pointed at the other, gave a short burn. Both weights gained almost the same momentum. Well, I can deduce that Separatron is actually a disguised lightsaber with built-in Force push power

Cool stuff! Although, IMHO, there is no need for exchangers to be diameter-to-mass proportional. 2.5m exchanger does not need to be so heavy. It could be 2 times flatter and lighter since only conductivity and radiator attachments matter.

Girder to 3.75 and girder to 1.25 adapters would be nice indeed! What is that pony's heat production rate?

Girder docking port lacks CLS config (judging by model, it should be airtight in conjunction with pressurized girders)

Hm... my attempts to get NFT and DRE along stalled at the point where radiators' equalization and critical temperatures are approximately half of that without DRE. @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleStaticRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } But anyway, that might become irrelevant soon. 1.0.3 could bring some possibilities. For example, radiators could have a switchable: either draw heat from skin, or 'pierce' the skin. Reactor core could be described in stock terms... But another rewrite and rebalance... Hang in there, Nertea!

Oops, I should've copypasted it instead of editing... Fixed that, there is only one moduleAeroReentry entry per radiator in cache now and it contains proper values. But actual maxTemp is still low, around 700-800K Other observations: - Thinner skin is less conductive, despite conductivity still set to 1, difference between body and skin temp increases, so I ended up setting skinThicknessFactor = 0.99, this reduced difference to minimum. Radiators are all about skin anyway. - When in timewarp, skin conductivity also failing (timewarps below 1000 of course). Inside heats up more with increasing warp. When timewarp is off, it slowly equalizes again. - At max power radiators equalize sooner with about half of nominal temp. GR-4 radiator at full power equilibrium with DRE: temp 529K skin temp 523K rad area 2.62m^2 exp area 2.37m^2 thermal mass 64 rad flux -400 UrlConfig { name = radiator-conformal-2 type = PART parentUrl = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 url = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 PART { name = radiator-conformal-2 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-conformal-2.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = nuclearPower entryCost = 6400 node_attach = 0.107, -0.02, 0.00, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 1600 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastria description = A small conformal heat radiator designed uniquely for the MX-4 reactor. From the box inset: "Six shall be the number of thy radiators, and the number of thy radiators shall be six". What an eccentric way of putting it. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.08 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 8 maxTemp = 1900 breakingForce = 13 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = Midlink pivotName = Midlink isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMedium_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumReactorRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 2.99 AreaExtended = 2.71 Radiation = 100 RadiationExtended = 450 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } } GR-4 radiator at full power equilibrium without DRE: temp 1397K thermal mass 64 rad flux -400 UrlConfig { name = radiator-conformal-2 type = PART parentUrl = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 url = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 PART { name = radiator-conformal-2 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-conformal-2.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = nuclearPower entryCost = 6400 node_attach = 0.107, -0.02, 0.00, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 1600 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastria description = A small conformal heat radiator designed uniquely for the MX-4 reactor. From the box inset: "Six shall be the number of thy radiators, and the number of thy radiators shall be six". What an eccentric way of putting it. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.08 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 8 maxTemp = 1900 breakingForce = 13 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = Midlink pivotName = Midlink isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMedium_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumReactorRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 2.99 AreaExtended = 2.71 Radiation = 100 RadiationExtended = 450 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } }

OK, with this code numbers in cache are correct: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.01 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleStaticRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.01 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } But radiators are still blowing up early, around 840K. UrlConfig { name = radiator-universal-1 type = PART parentUrl = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 url = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 PART { name = radiator-universal-1 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-universal-1.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = heatManagementSystems entryCost = 14000 node_attach = 0.0, -0.00, 0.00, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 3500 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = XR-550 Standardized Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastra Inc. description = Attach this deployable heat radiator to cool parts. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.19 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 4 maxTemp = 1900 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 bulkheadProfiles = srf MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = LinkRotator pivotName = LinkRotator isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMediumUniversal_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumUniversalRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 1.17 AreaExtended = 4.31 Radiation = 150 RadiationExtended = 1100 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry] { skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.01 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 0.12 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } }

Here is a part of MM config cache regarding one of the radiators: UrlConfig { name = radiator-universal-1 type = PART parentUrl = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 url = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 PART { name = radiator-universal-1 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-universal-1.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = heatManagementSystems entryCost = 14000 node_attach = 0.0, -0.00, 0.00, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 3500 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = XR-550 Standardized Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastra Inc. description = Attach this deployable heat radiator to cool parts. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.19 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 4 maxTemp = 1900 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 bulkheadProfiles = srf MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = LinkRotator pivotName = LinkRotator isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMediumUniversal_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumUniversalRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 1.17 AreaExtended = 4.31 Radiation = 150 RadiationExtended = 1100 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 0.12 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } }

With I've tested DRE version 7.0.3 with NFE and the following code: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ @skinHeatConductivity = 1 @skinThicknessFactor = 0.9 @skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } Skin and internal temperature now level pretty good, that is fixed. But radiators are still blow up somewhere around 700 and skinThicknessFactor does not seem affecting skin thermal mass ratio at all. (edited @maxTemp, nothing changed)

I've got message from Starwaster, Latest version of Deadly reentry fixed skinHeatConductivity. In theory, the following code should make radiators compatible with DRE: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ @skinHeatConductivity = 1 // this line probably can be ommited: @skinThicknessFactor = 1 @skinMaxTemp = 1900 } } Can't test now, lots of things happening IRL.

Hi! With latest version I've got a weird bug: several seconds after loading the craft in space its center of mass (and camera) starts shifting away, rotation and orbit calculation gets messed up.

I've decided to get NFE and DRE along, but something is not working. Applied this patch: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ @skinHeatConductivity = 1 @skinThicknessFactor = 1 @skinMaxTemp = 1900 } } But radiator's skin vs part temperatures are still far from equal (something like 600K part, 120K skin), skin to part mass ratio still 1/10. And they are about to explode when reaching 800K, despite maxTemp for these parts is 1900. Log says my patch applied to desired parts.