tseitsei

[quote name='jedensuscg']Ive been trying to get the stock command pod and the crew cabin back to Kerbin for two days now. The new heat and aerodynamic models are brutal. My first attempt failed because I ran out of battery and loss SAS causing my craft to gyrate and explode from heat. Second attempt failed because it took SOOOOO long to slow down to parachute speeds. I was at 2kmn ASL when I fired my chute at 450m/s and the forces ripped the chutes off the craft and I slammed into the ground. third attempt I was at around 25km and still doing well over 1000 m/s when suddently the aerodynamic forces flipped my craft sideways and resulted in an instantaneous explosion of the entire craft. I am entering from around 80km orbit, at a fairly shallow descent. As it is, it takes about 5 minutes from when I hit 70km to when I get to 30km and BOOM. Reentry has turned into a very long ordeal if you don't have the Delta-V to slow a ton in orbit. Already killed two pilots, an engineer and three tourists and I am only in the third tech tree. Thing is I tested everything in simulations (using Kerbal Construction Time) and I could get to the ground, it seems as there needs to be a VERY fine line walked to land safely.[/QUOTE] Heatshield helps (read: makes it super easy) but lko is doable without it. 1) point retrograde. Dont use sas hold retrograde since it uses up all electricity as you already noticed. Just use stability assist and manuall correct it slightly when/if needed. If your ship overheats you need a more heat resistant part at the bottom (heatshield is obviously best). If your ship tends to flip you need to design it so that it's aerodynamically most stable while moving retrograde... 2) once you are at ~900-800m/s start using your sas to turn your craft to have some aoa (angle of attack). You basically want as much area facing the relative wind as possible at this point to slow you down quickly. 3) you should be at safe chute opening speeds with plenty of time left (8000-5000m usually). If not you need to design your reentry ship to be more draggy and/or lighter so ot will slow down faster. Also if you dont play career (or already have this part unlocked) drogue chutes also make things much easier...

[quote name='Octa']I know how tweakables work and i already do it, but still thanks :wink: I just keep wondering why the shield carries that much ablator by default in the first place, or if there are situations where you really need 200 units of it.[/QUOTE] I haven't tested yet but probably interplanetary aerocapturing and/or eve reentry need more ablator

[quote name='quasarrgames'] [B]Cons[/B] -reentry heat is worse [/QUOTE] No. No it's not. It is hotter and thus harder. But not worse. I would say it's better because it prevents stupid reentrys and actually makes you design your ship for reentry purposes...

Lol... It's certainly "not widely accepted maths". It's just plain wrong maths... So in your "real world" you have 50% chance at winning a grand prize in lottery? Either you win ir you dont. If that is the case I wanna play a game with you: 1) each week we play one single ticket of lottery 2) if it wins the grand prize I'll give you 1000e 3) if it doesnt you will give me 100e By your logic this will be very profitable for you since 50% of the time you lose 100e but the other 50% you gain 1000e... But as I am sure you can see from this example, that's not how real world or real math works...

First of all more spacestation/base building parts. Including something kis/kas like mechanic. Also very high on my priority list would be to make whole kerbol system proceduraly generated (while also leaving an option to use current system if you want). And you wouldnt see the planets and their orbits first. You would have to do research (with telescopes and probes and such) to get info about the system. But that would be a lot of work and it would have to be a goal for a longer time... Also life support system (optional to use of course) Visual and performance upgrades. Option to add ablative coating to (spaceplane) parts. Visual and performance updates. Better contract system if possible (altough world first awards helps a lot already) Weather effects Roughly in order with most important stuff for me on top

What we need instead is a new game mechanic that makes us use hitchiker modules or some other modules meant for long time habitation for all missions longer than a few days. Now we can just out kerbal in a pod where there is barely enough room to sit and send him on a 10 year journey to eeloo. I dont like that.

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion but you shouldnt go around telling how game is stupid because "its impossible to make an ssto with 6000dv on lko". Or at least you should stop whining when someone specifically demonstrates with example craft how to make an ssto with 7600dv on lko. Making crafts like that should be hard. And if you cant do it it doesnt mean it's impossible. You now have proof that the way you want to play the game (apparently high dv ssto planes is your way and that's totally cool) is still doable. So now you just need to get designing/testing... If it would be easy it wouldnt be nearly as fun now would it?

Best post of the thread. Instead of crying and complaining people could and should be finding new ways of doing stuff. That's what makes ksp fun. Finding new efficient ways to do stuff that is hard to do. This guy just made a spaceplane with 1.6kdv more dv than you guys just said would be impossible. So maybe time to stop crying and start designing and testing?

My question regarding this topic is: Where can I see all the things that grant me this "worlds first" prizes?

I just came here to say LOL @ OP. Seriously... You have at least 3 options to choose from: 1. Keep using 1.04 until mods upgrade. Mods breaking is definitely NOT a good reason to stop updating the game... 2. Play 1.05 stock or almost stock. Stock game has improved very much and is very fun and enjoyable for me at least. But is no doubt harder than with some easymode mods that do half the stuff for you 3. Stop playing if you dont like it. You can come back when the mods update or when/if stock game is good enough for you or you can stop alltogether. Just stop complaining at least...

I agree that now that we have somewhat working atmo and reentry heat we need much more versatile station/space building. But that said atmo update was imo even more needed because souposphere and no reentry heating. Now that those are taken care of we can again start focusing on outer space stuff I hope that next big thing will be more station/base parts, more interesting planets and possibly new (in some way very extreme) planets

Why would you want to work on designing any spaceship? You can just use stock crafts and download other peoples crafts from this forum. The game gives us tools and parts to build working effective crafts BUT the game doesnt do it for us. Designing working crafts is big part of the gameplay.

IMO overheating is a good extra challenge for eve. I like it that there is this final "boss monster" in ksp. And since I had done eve landing+ascent already in the earlier versions the new extra challenge is welcome I'm currently playing career for the first time but will play with eve sometime too

This. People need to understand this. Remember that reentry in real life is very dangerous also. Engines still being good heatshields is what disturbs me most now... What I think we need is reentry that makes heatshield absolutely necessary. And if we do that we also need ability to add ablator to spaceplane parts (ofcourse with mass and price penalty) to make shuttles and spaceplanes able to reentry. Also aerobraking/capturing from interplanetary speeds should be extremely difficult and dangerous.

I'm interested in divisions 1 & 4. 1 because it's finding the absolute limit for payload fraction in current ksp. And 4 because ssto without recoverability could just as well be considered multistage because it doesnt offer any advantage over multistage design. Good changes. Will see what I can do in new version next week.

Why is using re-entry heat or kerbal salary any more or less optional than using any part(s) you dont like? That op part doesnt make game too easy/hard/whatever for you if you choose not to use it... Yes and I as a customer am telling my opinion that differs from yours. That I dont consider this feature to be an improvement and I think that squad should use its time for other features instead. (I wont start talking about what features I would like. That's a discussion for another thread). The key difference here is that heating and aerodynamics are important aspects when FLYING AND DESIGNING a spacecraft. Salary is important while FINANCIALLY MANAGING SPACEPROGRAM. I like the flying and designing aspect of the game so I would like to see new features and upgrades on that. You obviously also like the financial tycoon type aspect of the game and would like to see improvements there. It's ok and understandable BUT dont call me selfish just because I want different features to be implemented in the game. From my point of view you are just as selfish. You want squad to use their time on some salary stuff instead of the upgrades I would like. Just as I want squad to use their time on stuff I would like to see instead of salary or other financial side stuff...

Calm down man. As I said it was just my opinion... No need to calm me selfish because of that. Let me explain you why I think "if you dont like it dont use it" is not a good logic IMO. Lets say a new horribly overpowered engines are added to the game. Something like 10000kN thrust 50000s isp 1t mass and 1000kerbucks price for example. Would you like that? Would that be just fine im your opinion? I think yiu wouldnt like that. I sure as hell wouldnt like that! But by your logic if you dont like them you can just choose not to use them... And by continuing that even further literally ANYTHING can be added to the game no matter how stupid as long as you add a button to turn it off... IMO that is not a good logic. Also a side point is that developing any new feature takes squads time. Time that they could use to develop some (imo) better and more important things. Disclaimer: I am not saying that horribleopengines and kerbal salaries are equally bad. I'm just trying to show you why "if you dont like it dont use it" is not a good logic...

I prefer keeping this as a spaceflight/exploration game rather than another tycoon game. There are already plenty of those tycoon games if you like managing money and resources... Ksp should be about building and flying spaceships imo

Ok in that case I pretty much agree with you And also as you said, there is nothing wrong if someone wants to use those tools even if they dont know how and why they work... Everyone chooses how they want to play . But I agree with you that if you wouldnt be able to do something without mods then you cant really say you can do that...

BoilingOil: If I CAN do my dv calculations on a piece of paper with no helping tools (which I can) but I'm still using KER to give me dv readings while building, do you consider that cheating? I just do it because it's too boring/time consuming to do the calculations by hand every time you build a new vessel... IMO that's in no way cheating. Just similarly I COULD calculate optimal launch windows myself (I know how to do it) but I wont because it takes too much time and gets boring quickly. Instead I use launch window planners coded by some other people (or quite often just eyeball it...).

IMO there should be 4 categories: Multistage rocket Completely reusable rocket Multistage airbreathing Completely reusable airbreathing Because I find the idea of ssto that cant be recovered quite stupid and unpractical... Complete reusability would practically mean ssto but it would also mean it needs to be recoverable. By completely reusable I mean that you can land it reasonably close to ksc and only thing that is needed for new launch is is refueling it.

Yeah. Needs bigger rudder. It doesnt even need that much (if any like slash said) control authority but yiu need significantly bigger passive tailfin. I usually still have some small control surface on my rudder but as slash really knows what he is talking about so.... and yeah delta wing is a good tailfin for bigger planes.

Why should you be able to re enter atmosphere straight from interplanetary transfer AND WITHOUT A HEATSHIELD? That's literally what heatshields are made for. How many of the real life spacecrafts have tried to use their engines as a heatshield instead of an actual heatshield? The fact that you can do it from inside kerbins SOI means that reentry heat is actually still quite forgiving... Also SSTO spaceplanes to laythe are completely doable in 1.04 stock ksp. Just go to challenges subforum and look for "SSTO to laythe and beyond". If you cant do it, it's not the games fault. You just need to learn more to be able to do it. The bigger problem IMO is that heatshields act quite differently than they should (as already stated in this thread). And that we cant coat the underside of our spaceplanes with heatshielding material (like the spaceshuttle did). Still even without that I have succesfully reentered spaceplanes to Eve so reentry is possible still to anywhere but aerobraking often isnt because using heatshield/ablator isnt reaöly possible for spaceplanes currently...

We need pics to be able to help. If we cant see your craft it's mostly guesswork

This. So much this... There would still be our good old kerbol system to use if we wanted to BUT you could always choose to start fresh and actually get to explore the new solar system everytime without knowing what you would find... that would be amazing...