ManEatingApe

Let's get the ball rolling with an actual entry! The first task is to find a suitable spot to land. A kOS script scans Tylo's equator looking for the highest point. At longitude -73.7927 it finds a nice mountain at 9,074m elevation. There are higher spots elsewhere on Tylo but choosing a location on the equator makes targeting a precise landing easier. Next task is to design a suitable craft. A second kOS script simulates a constant altitude landing burn, predicting the final TWR, burn duration and delta-v needed, so that the craft design can iterate quickly without needing trial and error. Lastly, let's fly the mission. A third kOS script controls the craft, performing a precision landing at our desired location. Let's see how the simulation compared against the actual mission. Predicted Actual Duration 434s 450s Delta-V 3,266 m/s 3,383 m/s Initial TWR 0.63 0.63 Final TWR 0.95 0.97 Not too shabby! The main difference is that the simulation ignores the final vertical landing phase for simplicity, causing a slight discrepancy. For anyone considering an entry, please feel free to use, tweak, modify and improve the scripts linked in this post.

This is fun challenge! I can think of 2 different strategies that could result in a lander with a final TWR of 1 (wrt Tylo local gravity). Both approaches will require top notch piloting skills and nerves of steel... Constant Altitude Burn Good description and discussion in these threads: What is the most efficient way to deorbit+land? Most Efficient Way to Land: Suicide Burn, good. Constant Altitude, better... Gravity Turn... Best? A constant altitude burn is more delta-v efficient than a suicide burn as TWR drops. In a nutshell the approach is: Enter circular orbit at the same altitude as the location that you want to land at (e.g on top of a handy mountain) Thrust mostly parallel to the surface, pitching up just enough to keep vertical velocity zero and altitude constant (hence the name of the maneuver) In theory with a TWR of 1, come to a perfect landing with the craft vertical (hovering against gravity) and horizontal velocity at zero. Brake Pad Insanity Burn This second approach is slightly more Kerbal: Find a nice flat patch of ground Come screeching in at ~2,300 m/s, using engines to keep vertical velocity zero Brake to a halt using wheels

Another way to test the comparison is to simulate a descent similar to how KSP models it. TL;DR A constant altitude descent consistently uses less delta-v than a suicide burn. The difference is bigger the lower the TWR of the craft, closing very rapidly to negligible values as TWR increases. Here's a chart showing values simulated for Tylo: I modeled the descent trajectory using the differential equations from the paper: Optimal Trajectory Planning for the Apollo MoonLanding: Descent, Ascent, and Aborts by Duncan Miller A kOS script integrated the differential equations numerically using Euler's method. During testing this agreed very closely with reported values from KSP, so seems to be similar to how the game code models things. The script simulated a "perfect" descent from a 30km circular oribt of Tylo to sea level. For the constant altitude burn a single pass for each TWR was enough. For the suicide burn, an iterative approach was used to determine the right altitude to set the periapsis when starting the burn.

It's an fun problem, optimizing for mission simplicity (or working around script limitations). Not totally sure on the overall mission profile yet but one idea I'm thinking of is parking a mothership in circular Jool orbit just outside Tylo, then 5 separate landers (one per moon). Not the most efficient delta-v wise but would keep mission profile relatively simple.

Description There has been plenty of healthy debate on this forum about the merits of flying missions manually versus various forms of autopilot assistance (for example MechJeb). This mission thread will not attempt to address that debate, but instead try something a little different by taking autopilot assistance to the ridiculous extreme: Completing the Jool-5 challenge with no player input whatsoever! Required Mods kOS (Kerbal Operating System) is the core mod enabling this attempt. kOS adds a virtual computer to craft that allows execution of scripts of arbitrary complexity. kOS-EVA will support control of Kerbals on EVA (presumably by implanting a chip in their head Black Mirror style ). RSVP library will handle the complexity of orbital rendezvous and transfer planning. Details A common approach to solving complex software problems is divide and conquer. Break the problem down into smaller chunks (recursively if necessary), solve each of them individually, then integrate the parts into a cohesive whole. The Jool-5 challenge is no different and can be broken down into the following sub-problems: Ascent: Launching into orbit from a planet's surface (both atmosphere and vacuum). Descent: Landing intact on the surface of a planet from orbit (both atmosphere and vacuum). Docking: Joining with another craft in orbit. Rendezvous: Transfers from planet to planet, and from ship to ship. Orchestration: Execute each of these steps in the correct order for the correct craft (there will be multiple craft). Plan My approach will be to solve each of these sub-problems one at a time, then attempt to stitch them together into a complete mission attempt. The initial solutions will probably be far from optimal, as the primary goal is to prove the overall feasibility. However a nice benefit of breaking the problem into chunks is that individual parts can be improved and tweaked over time (for example the descent script could be improved without requiring changes in other scripts).

The only wrong direction is if you capture into a retrograde orbit of Jool! (have done this by accident) Seriously though, the great thing about KSP is that there are always many ways to accomplish things. Want a pod..use it! Want all the science..do it! Want to use nukes...go for it! You can optimize in any of several areas e.g low mass, low part count, low risk, low mission complexity, low requirements in real time. Then you can always go back and try the same mission in a different way just for kicks. It's not strictly related to your question, but it's also fun to toss a probe into a one-way trip into Jool's atmosphere and let it get crushed. You can transmit some extra science and the added mass requirements are not too high, if you let aero-braking do most of the work.

For the Tylo lander, have you considered a command chair instead of a pod? The mass savings would be considerable. A flags and footprints only Tylo lander can be in the 2 to 2.5 ton range (budget some more than this for the Science Jr) Your plan to re-use the ascent stage of the Tylo lander for Val, Pol and Bop is a good idea and a great way to save some parts and mass.

4,000 m/s dV should be more than enough to return from Jool to Kerbin, including capturing propulsively into Kerbin orbit. A thought occurs based on your description (but a picture would be even more helpful) - where is your transfer trajectory intercepting Kerbin? You want the PE of your transfer to be a close as possible to the PE of Kerbin. This way your craft's velocity and Kerbin velocity are mostly aligned, so you only need to cancel out the hyperbolic excess. If you're intercepting Kerbin away from the PE of the transfer orbit, then you'll have a significant radial component. Hopefully this sophisticated diagram help show what I mean: Another suggestion: Tylo and Laythe are wonderful for gravity assists when arriving/leaving Jool, due to their large mass and high orbital velocity. With a little practice you can also eject directly from Laythe/Tylo orbit into a Kerbin intercept.

This is a fun challenge with plenty of potential! A single stage vessel to Eeloo at periapsis needs about 4,500 to 5,000 m/s from LKO. High but not impossible for an efficient design. The obvious choice of ion engines is feasible but has some drawbacks. Solar power is basically non-existent at Eeloo's apoapsis and Eeloo's gravity is high enough to make landing on the low TWR of ions alone challenging. Best bring some alternate power source and some extra landing engines. A Rapier/Nuke combo would also be quite effective and probably simpler to execute the journey. To get the ball rolling here's an entry applying the strictest interpretation of the rules. Single stage from Kerbin to Eeloo's surface without any refueling. A fuel cell tucked away in a non-stageable fairing provides enough power to run 2 ion engines consistently. Just enough fuel to make it to the surface intact! I'm sure that the creative and ingenious folks on this forum can come up with plenty of other approaches. Full Album Link @Nicodo123 You could consider tweaking the challenge to attract some healthy competition. For example you could split entries into ranks, here's one idea: Gold: Kerbin to surface of Eeloo and back to Kerbin without any refuelling whatsover. Silver: Kerbin to surface of Eeloo without refuelling along the way. Bronze: Kerbin to surface of Eeloo with a pit stop. Alternatively, ranking by cost / mass / part count are also popular options.

That's gonna be a little tricky (but not impossible)! One idea to consider is a separate tug craft, with RCS and a decent reaction wheel that could wrangle your side by side rockets together.

Nice entry, added you the leader board in the chair category. I liked the truly minimal design and taking advantage of the extra EVA fuel allowed by the new 1.11 inventory system.

That's an ingenious and entertainingly Kerbal discovery! I like the idea of your unfortunate Kerbal clutching an extra tank of fuel all the way down and back. Sure, I'll allow it: I'm intrigued if it will work.

Gotcha - the parts remain outside the bay, but the nosecones are placed inside it. Clever, but I'll have to disallow it. Either live with the drag of the nosecones or streamline things into fewer stacks. Flags producing body lift at an angle is a confirmed bug. The ESA exploit challenge feels like a better home for flag related chicanery.

Thanks for asking for clarification in advance, I appreciate it. This spirit of this challenge is to get as cheap as possible, within the constraints of the normal intended physics of the game. Excessive clipping is just one aspect of that philosophy. Bearing that in mind... Hard no on both of these. (they would come under the Wheaton rule category). The heat shield trick is amusing, but falls under the same category of unintended physics glitches as the (now fixed) drain valve exploit or various other Kraken-tech. Any entry using this would go straight to the Rogue's Gallery. You could submit a clearly labelled entry just for fun on that understanding. I'm a little dubious on this, but perhaps a little more explanation would help before making a decision. As I understand it parts that are completely contained within a service bay or fairing are not considered for aerodynamic drag, so I'm not sure about the advantage of adding a nosecone inside the bay. Absolutely yes and I would encourage it! Both DLCs are completely fine. There's even a number of different approaches you could consider: Propellers in addition to rapier/whiplash to assist in lower atmosphere. A separate propeller mothership entirely, that carries and releases a more conventional rocket powered craft (e.g SpaceShipTwo / WhiteKnightTwo). This mothership could then return to KSC. A propeller powered recovery vessel that is launched separately to the initial craft and recovers the parts dumped around Kerbin, returning them to the KSC for 100% recovery value.

Nice work on the ruthlessly reduced reusable refinement. You retain the top spot in the category.

Another fun trick - if you get a Kerbal to jump, then run the EVA report while they're in the air, then you'll get the Flying low EVA report (which is per biome).

MOAR Boosters... 2nd mission (first part of six): Checkout the original posts here and here, and the entire Kerpollo sequence of videos at my Vimeo account, set to some crackin' tunes.

A single like just doesn't seem enough for this amazingly creative achievement! KSP will now need it's own version of the Oscars... Awesome work @Makc_Gordon

The goal of this challenge is to play a community game of "reverse" pass the parcel. Players will take turns transporting a parcel back and forth between the KSC and the Island Airfield, using the EVA Construction Mode to add a part to the parcel each time it's shuttled between the KSC and Airfield. The last team to transport the parcel successfully is the victor. Rules: There are 2 notional teams: "Team KSC" and "Team Airfield" Players take turns sequentially. Players can submit entries for one or both teams. Players can enter more than once, the only restriction is that a single player may not take 2 turns in a row. Each Turn: Choose 1 part that does not already exist on the parcel (the parcel may not have the same part added twice). Transport the parcel to the other team's home turf using your creativity and ingenuity Team KSC: Home turf is anywhere within the grounds of the KSC. Team Airfield: Home turf is anywhere on the island that contains the Island Airfield. Using the EVA construction mode, add that part to the parcel permanently. You can add the part to the parcel before, during or after the journey. The journey does not necessarily need to take the shortest path between the KSC and the Airfield. The parcel must survive the journey intact. You may not use any resources from the parcel. Other rules: Team Airfield can use the Airfield launch option from the VAB or debug menu to place their craft on the island initially as a convenience. Stock parts only. No modded parts or DLC parts - this is to ensure maximum compatibility for all players. If you use a mod such as MechJeb or KER make sure that no modded parts corrupt the save. As a courtesy to the other team, don't intentionally block the runway or launchpad. No Kraken drives or similar exploits. Keep it clean, have fun and don't go looking for loopholes. Victory: If a team succeeds in making the parcel too large or awkward to transport any further, then that team is victorious. If every possible part has been added to the parcel and there are no unique parts left to add, then both teams share a joint victory against the Kraken. Logistics: Add a post to the thread requesting a turn (or DM me) and I'll add you to the turn queue. When notified that it's your turn, download the latest save file from Github. Take your turn then save the game as a new save file named in the format "<turn number> - part name". For example, the current save file is named "001 - hubmax,okto2". If you add a mystery goo, then name your save file "002 - mysterygoo". The next player would then name their file something like "003 - z100" and so on. Open a PR in Github or upload the file somewhere publicly accessible. Create a post in the thread with photos or video documenting your journey and include the link. Try to keep turns reasonably quick (within 24 hours) to keep things flowing. No problems if you have real life obligations, just let me know and we can either work out a small extension or bump you one or two places down the queue. Turn Queue: ??? ??? ??? The parcel is currently on the apron in front of the SPH awaiting transport to the Island Airfield...

As always, a neat and efficient entry. Added you to the leaderboard. For anyone who is following this thread, the latest 1.11 version brings in some interesting changes. Kerbal's EVA packs and parachutes now add mass to the craft, which has the following implications: Podded entries are mildly more efficient (you can omit the jetpack and personal parachute) Command chair entries are potentially much more efficient (a 0.05 versus 0.09 ton Kerbal is a more significant change) A personal parachute vs a chute on the command chair entries is now more balanced (both add mass) I'm sure that enterprising cheapskates will find a way to leverage the inventory system for costs savings and look forward to the entries!

Hurray! I look forward to the reign of terror ...erm I mean benevolent dictatorship...no wait...stewardship of respected clan elder @JAFO I think one of the things that make the Caveman challenge such a success is the simplicity of the rules, basically: No building upgrades of any kind Just raw primal KSP with the ever present danger of the sabre-toothed Kraken To encourage innovation I would make 2 suggestions: Explicitly allow EVA construction to inspire creativity and add to the established repertoire of lawn-assembly and orbital assembly. Bring the Breaking Ground and Making History DLCs in from the cold (so to speak) in a unified leaderboard. Some of the possibilities this could unlock: Hinges, pistons and servos from Breaking Ground would allow the creation of cranes and other advanced construction equipment to take lawn assembly to the next level Caveman prop planes and helicopters! Using the propellers and duct fans could allow such things as electric powered Duna or Eve biome hoppers.

Now that the 1.11 update is available, I'm curious what the clan thinks of the new EVA construction mode and how "compatible" it is with Caveman? My initial feeling after a short testing session is that it will be a nice addition that will spur further creativity and fun design patterns (which there is already plenty of in this thread ). The largest container available at Caveman tech levels is the SEQ-3 that can fit at most an Oscar fuel tank. It seems most useful for adding small science, batteries, antennas, solar panels, ladders and whatnot to craft after launch where part count, rather than mass is the limiting factor Construction in orbit would require an engineer to ride a ladder to space, so not hugely more advantageous than assembling multi-craft with docking ports.

I threw a rock at Eeloo back in 1.1 days (a probe into low Eeloo orbit). However I don't think anyone has landed on it. With 9,000 m/s delta-v you could visit Eeloo and...Dres!

Unfortunately with that glitch no-one can know what the actual fuel consumption was - so I can't accept that entry officially but I appreciate your honesty about it. However it's pretty clear that you go can lower than your current 1st place score, perhaps even lower than 160 funds by iterating on your current design. If you want to enter again with a tweaked version of your current 1st place entry, I'm happy to update your slot. (It's fine to do named quicksave regularly just in case that unexplained fuel glitch strikes again, so you could revert to a known good point without having to start the entire mission over)

Apparently I did visit Moho! Found the album for the mission that delivered a probe into a low polar orbit of Moho. That's technically a little better than a flyby, but not by much. So looks the achievement of landing is still waiting to be claimed in both Kerballed and non-Kerballed categories. And since Commnet was introduced in 1.2 there's an extra challenge if someone would like to attempt another flyby with Commnet on.