# Quincunx

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1. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Right... Derp... Completely obvious... How could I EVEn say that Moho was harder to land and return from? It's like I don't know anything about this game... my apologies! I think you captured the gist of my argument in your second sentence. Moho is pretty difficult to get to w/o GAs. But GAs change the whole story. Then the question is whether one orange tank is enough, and I agree a single-stage craft would be more difficult still. It would probably be easier to stage the plane parts off. Still, being able to land horizontally should save you some dV through braking, and taking off hori
2. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Do I understand you correctly? 1. LKO - Munar GA - resonant Kerbol orbits: 850 m/s 2. Kerbin - Eve - Kerbin - Eve - Moho capture: 1050 m/s 3. Moho capture - Moho surface: 1150 m/s 4. Moho surface - Moho orbit: 1100 m/s 5. Moho - Eve - Kerbin AC - Kerbin surface: 1050 m/s Firstly, these dV estimates add up to 5200 m/s, not 5150 m/s. Assuming they're correct, your burn to break Moho orbit would leave you running on fumes. But the wiki has Moho orbital velocity as 795 m/s, not 1050 m/s, and the dV chart shows that a Moho landing costs ~870 m/s, not 1150 m/s. Thi
3. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

And with that, you have authoritatively answered the titular question of this thread. Thank you!
4. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Glad you're enjoying it! I for one am extremely pleased with the response and participation. Fertile ground they are indeed - but my chief impression is that you can get really good at this game if you happen to enjoy orbital mechanics calculations (which I do), so there's hope for me yet. It has been said, by me, in the OP I had another think (thinks are easy to have when first you take your mind off things!) and it occurs to me that there is another aspect that can be optimized. For a landing on Minmus with a spaceplane rather than a rocket, one doesn't actually need to
5. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Apologies for the bump, but I just had a think, and I think Duna orbit -> Laythe surface should be possible in <400 m/s. I just applied the same reasoning as you with the Kerbin orbit -> Duna surface calculation -- you can use Ike the same way you used the Mun. I'm not sure how many Ike GAs you need, but ideally you should be able to use one or more Ike flybys to get kicked out of the Dunan SoI and then spam resonant orbits again. 360+30 m/s to get an Ike encounter, and maybe ~10 m/s to set up the multiple GAs, and you should be good. Duna->anywhere in 400 m/s. Let's say your
6. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

I think if you do a single Mun gravity assist and burn at Munar PE for Duna, you lose out on the Oberth effect from Kerbin and therefore actually cost dV relative to a direct insertion rather than saving it. Multiple Munar GAs can be used to eject you from the Kerbin system, whence further GAs (executed like camacju did) will add to your savings. I'm sure if you give it a try, you will confirm that a direct insertion is more efficient than K-M-D, and multiple GAs are the way to go.
7. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Apart from Moho, Eeloo, Bop, and Pol, basically a grand tour of the old Kerbolar System. On one orange tank. ... "You, sir, are a steely-eyed missile man." If this were a (n active) reddit challenge, you definitely would get some sort of flair thingie. I guess the best I can offer you is a quote (for your sig if you like): Camacju, you took a single orange tank on the greatest road trip of its life. You have beaten hardereresterestest mode. ... actually, now that I think about it, I could probably learn a lot from your mission, especially in terms of dV. Can you clari
8. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Thanks, that would be awesome! I don't know if your mission is still running, but if you're taking requests, would you be interested in flying around some more (Ike, Mun, Minmus or whatever)? Your posts in this thread have been both informative and entertaining.
9. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Do you have the thread link? I suspect such a discussion would have addressed many of my questions (including ones I don't yet know I have).
10. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

My Kod, camacju. That is simply amazing. [:O] I bet I can learn quite a bit from those images you posted, too. EDIT: You say your first Mun encounter was suboptimal as in > 850 m/s. I'm looking at your remaining dV and it seems you went from 4859 m/s dV to 4008 m/s dV, i.e. an 851 m/s burn. Am I missing something or were you just being that literal? And you got from there to Duna in an additional 21 m/s. Wow. That's even more incredible to me considering the route you took was...let's see... K-M-M-M-K-M-D? The original mission plan I had in mind was to land on Ike, get
11. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

No worries, I guess this chart is lost to the aether. Now I'm starting to wonder if GAs in the reverse direction can be done to get to Eve, for a follow-up GA to Duna. Clearly there are a lot of possible mission plans to consider. Some of them make sense (i.e., they are provably better than a direct insertion), and some of them don't (they are provably worse). Most of them look really difficult, though. Perhaps a challenge could be to attempt some of these GAs to Duna and see how much dV each of them costs. Anyone interested? EDIT: On page 16 of the community dV map thread
12. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Thanks VoteSquid, but I already looked at this chart and don't see any mention of GAs (which is the rather salient point here). Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, referring to this thread, it seems I may have this all wrong. Maybe I want an Eve GA for these purposes.
13. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Thanks for the advice, Gargamel. In the meantime, though, I would still really like to ask my theoretical question: What is the minimum amount of dV required to get to Duna from LKO? I'm envisioning several scenarios based on the above discussion: Kerbin-Duna (because...yeah) Kerbin-Mun (burn at PE)-Duna (this seems to cost dV because we lose out on the Oberth effect) Kerbin (burn in LKO perfectly)-Mun-Duna (this seems good, but potentially hard?) Kerbin-Mun-Kerbin (burn at PE)-Duna (get the benefit of the Oberth effect again) Kerbin-Mun-Minmus-Kerbin (burn a
14. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Because I'm a cheapskate who got KSP back in the bad old days and don't know how to update it.
15. ## How far can you take an orange fuel tank?

Thank you, camacju, for your participation! To be perfectly honest, rather embarrassingly, I am still on KSP 0.22 and I did not even realise the Rapier is stock... I've been trying to do this using two nuclear engines and a pile of jet engines with a whole stack of intakes (plus aerospikes if they help). Since you roundly crushed the original challenge, are you (or is anyone else) up for hardereresterestest mode with these engines only? As for your suggestion, let me confirm what you proposed: LKO - Mun encounter - Kerbin orbit (?) (with high eccentricity) - Mun encounter - ...
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