Specula

Yeah, it's weird... I make sure the fuel lines all feed into the centre... And then launch to see the fuel drains from all tanks evenly instead of just the centre line tanks. It's mind mindbogglingly stupid.

Sorry, don't care for mods myself. Sadly, I don't have the luxury of just clicking on and off every tank as I need them mid flight, especially not in atmospheric transmission. Also, I find that fuel lines don't actually do anything in my planes sadly. =\

Hi forum goers! I've been on a bit of an SSTO bend recently, and there's been one part of the game that I normally adore for making rockets but utterly infuriates me with spaceplanes: Fuel crossfeed. In most of my SSTO designs, the rockets and rocket fuel occupies the central area while the jet engines and jet fuel sit further out. Unfortunately, the jet engines always drain the central rocket fuel tanks as priority rather than the jet fuel tanks they're directly attached to. Is there any reliable, stable and non weight intensive way of making engines drain only from fuel tanks they're directly attached to?

So I've had this problem for the last two versions now where I'd go into the spaceplane hangar, use some of the funky new parts, launch and when it gets to the runway, the parts have reverted to older variations of similar parts. These older parts remain if I revert to the hangar too. I had hoped that 0.9 would fix this problem so I could play the game again, but this problem is STILL here. I've updated, uninstalled, reinstalled, updated and nothing. In addition to this, I now have a listing of two of every older part in the parts window during hangar construction. I'm running a Windows 64bit system with the current 0.9 patch. The game doesn't crash so no long can be given, but here's a few screenshots showing what I mean: Alright, everything looks good. Let's launch... ... Wot This bug was still there last patch too. Why has this not been fixed yet? It's not a small problem either.

Sorry, should have included some pics. Anyway, here's a few pics of my two current SSTOs/High altitude circumnavigation planes: Atmosphere skipper: Orbital/Interplanetary SSTO: Ah, so it's true you can add more than one control wheel. Thanks, I was under the impression that any more than one did nothing and was just extra, wasted weight.

Huh, after a quick bit of testing, I think you're both right. The CoM and CoL being out of line seems to be causing it. Thanks folks. Managed to follow Maverick's advice and while not perfect, showed vast improvements.

I've made several basic and a single complex SSTO spaceplane design, all of which have been quite effective for their purpose except for one simple and common problem they all share: They all spin wildly out of control during atmospheric decent from space or from very high altitude flying (above 30,000m). I've only successfully pulled a single one out of it's deathspin to land it, and it's frankly INFURIATING me. I simply don't understand why spaceplane SSTOs do this. Are there any SSTO designers out there that have had this problem with earlier designs and worked out a solution for yourself? Considering this seems to happen to all my planes no matter the size or shape, I don't think my craft themselves are the problem, I'm guessing either it's the overall 'wide wing/delta wing' design shape I stick to or there's some other unknown mechanic or problem I haven't addressed. Any help from the better/most knowledgeable SSTO designers on what causes this and how they fix it would be really appreciated. Addendum: I'm a stock player. Please don't suggest using modded parts/flight control mods to fix it. Atmosphere skipper: Orbital/Interplanetary SSTO:

... Yeah-no, I'm not taking that bait despite how completely wrong you are. -snip- I come in here asking for some suggestions and stating concerns that I'd like to keep it stock-like and balanced, and in less than 5 posts, people are already denouncing developers and non mod users alike and in less than 10 posts, it turns into passive-aggressive personal attacks. Now I remember the OTHER reason why I steer clear of mods and their communities. I'm out.

.... Yeah, no thanks. Posts and attitudes like that are precisely why many have problems with modding communities, modders and their fans. I'll pass on those.

Thanks for the input! I'll give them a look over the next week or so. Much appreciated.

As much as I normally don't like mods (Many modding communities for games seem to have a penchant for making mods that suck the fun out of the game by making it too easy), I'm finally getting bored enough of stock KSP that I'm looking for some mods to offer plenty of additional parts to play with. But I'm still not interested in really overpowered parts and since I've not got hours upon hours to research and go through trial and error, can I ask for some suggestions? What mods look fantastic and are filled with extremely fair and balanced extra parts in your estimation? Both rocket and spaceplane parts (and maybe some space station parts too) are desired, I play with SSTOs as much as I do conventional rockets. Thanks for any input you've got to offer.

It's even worse when the R.A.P.I.E.R runs out of air. The switchover from air intake to internal oxidiser is horrendous and very late to happen, only kicking in long after breathable air has dropped past 0.0 and your engines have flamed out. And then when the oxidizer kicks in... It consumes fuel at an abhorrent rate. Once it switched over, it consumed 660 Oxidizer in 2 R.A.P.I.E.R engines in about 20 seconds.

Cool. So how many of those were done with a Rapier engine where you have to run fuel and then fuel/oxidizer through the same set of engines for both phases of the flight? I'm betting the answer is: None.

You can tell WhiteWeasel is the only other person in this thread that's done anything with SSTOs and knows what's up. And Supernovy, I'm talking about getting MORE Oxidiser on board, not LESS.

I've been wanting these for a while since I began my foray into designing SSTOs, but now with the R.A.P.I.E.R engine especially, I crave it. The idea of a fuel tank, the same width as the small jet fuel MkI tanks, that carries nothing but oxidizer. Especially since jet engines and the Rapier engine are just going to use straight liquid fuel to get up out of the atmosphere, there's always going to be a fuel/oxidizer imbalance and I could really go for some extra pure oxidiser tanks to keep them separate. Just my two cents.

It's been a while since I updated, mainly because I've had -NO- luck with getting this whale of a ship into space again. First time seemed to be a fluke, until I remembered how I'd done it. I went through multiple redesigns, shed as much weight as I could think of and tried different methods of getting into orbit until I remembered how to do it. I need to take rollercoaster dips and hills, moving up and down between about 16,000m and 26,000m, slowly rising a little more each time as I shed fuel and gain speed until finally I can project myself off one of the crests and into space. Essentially like this: But now, Bill Kerman joins Jebediah Kerman in an orbiting Fat Cat 1 (version 13): The next version will likely have a docking port senior version, just so it can dock with any ship anywhere. I just need to find somewhere I can place it that doesn't look horribly out of place or tacked on.

Thanks for the suggestions both of you. Remotetech looks like just the thing I'm after, UbioZur. Making the game harder than it already is is -EXACTLY- my thing. Yes, I'm a masochist.

One of the reasons I've resented a lot of mods in games like Minecraft, KSP, Skyrim, World of Warcraft and other really open to modding games is that many of the mods are either akin to cheating, are blatantly outright cheating (*cough*MechJebFTBHealium*cough*), or just cheapen the game compared to unmodded vanilla/stock and make it much, much easier to play than it would be with pure stock/vanilla gameplay or parts. I'm curious though... Can anyone suggest any good mods for KSP that add parts, dynamics or even new mechanics to the game that don't utterly cheapen the game, break it or take any challenge out of the game? (EG: Mods that add new dynamics or new sets of parts which offer different, but not better alternatives to regular stock)

Did a lot in KSP today. Most of it was a mix of rather incredible coincidences, great victories and epic failures. Prepare for a long post! Firstly, showed my screen on a Skype call to a friend who was mildly curious about KSP and from scratch, yanked out an old rocket, the OverEngineered Mun Cat 1 rocket, and rapid planned on the fly a trip to the Mun and back in 20 minutes flat on the fly. Botched the Mun landing several times because I thought trying to land on a 45 degree crater edge was just a fantastic idea at the time. But, like a real 'pro', no reloads, no saves, no cheats, just desperately fighting to keep it under control as it skimmed over the surface with my last few drops of fuel (literally. I had less than 5 units of fuel left when I landed) until I could skitter over somewhere flatter, the entire time my friend telling me I was a total noob and asked me what I thought I was doing. On the way there, I got to show him a perfect Munar Eclipse too: Then after the call, I spent an hour redesigning my Fat Cat 1 SSTO. Besides my first success after 6 hours of trying with the third prototype, I've not succeeded again in getting the thing into a stable orbit. After another 15 prototype redesigns and 10-ish hours of attempts, I FINALLY cracked exactly how to fly the thing into orbit. I have to do giant rollercoaster dips from 18,000m-24,000m until I can finally burn off enough fuel and gain enough speed to hurl myself off the top of one of the crests and into orbit. Basically doing this: And so, finally Bill Kerman joins Jebadiah Kerman in orbit in a pair of Fat Cats. I felt pretty boss when I finally got this blubberbutt into space: So that was my win for the day. Thirdly I tried to remake Thin Cat 1, the drone piloted refueling tanker into orbit to refuel the 80% depleted Fat Cat 1. Man, what a mess that was... 4 from the ground up redesigns and countless launch failures. Not paying attention and my engines overheating, random explosions, putting sepratrons on the wrong way and propelling spent SRBs into the main fuel column instead of outwards. So I went and cleared my mind playing some Battlefield 3 for a few hours. And finally after I got back, I decided to launch another satellite to Duna. So I got it all the way to Duna and detatched my transfer stage in a retrograde direction, and then used the last positioning stage to burn retrograde to stabilize my orbit. It was then my logical mind kicked in and said... "Hang on... I just detached a very large and very heavy lower stage in a retrograde direction and now I'm slowing down... Wait, doesn't that mean-" And sure enough, said lower stage came screaming back into view of my satellite at ~300 m/s. ".... Oh, fiddlesticks... -_-" And so my satellite after 3 hours of rocket design and RL time flying was no more than a few small struts and a dislodged battery, coated in the salty tears of hours of wasted time. Long and eventful day of KSP. Good and bad.

You have a messed up sense of priorities. Dangerously so, seems to me like you're rubbing it in more than anything. And if you want to make that claim, prove it. Right now. Show me how many hours EXACTLY you've played.

...You've never played KSP before, have you?

My first real SSTO: The Fat Cat 1. Just as heavy and difficult to get into orbit as it's name implies. Also 'JUST' capable of going to Laythe with full rocket fuel and no jet fuel after an orbital refueling. Version 2: Version 3:

No actually, trying to follow the few bits of of Scott Manley's advice I tried out has actually inhibited me. Especially the '15,000m; tilt over' part. Most of my rockets require a lot more upwards velocity before they tilt over.

True, but in the same was our Sun's distinct name might be 'Sol', it's not official. It's a sci-fi staple, and nothing more unfortunately. I'd prefer it be otherwise, but them's the breaks unfortunately. =\

This is the problem with calling something the same thing as the category it classifies as, isn't it? I get the impression in KSP that 'Mun' is it's name, while natural satellites like Gilly, Laythe, Minmus and yes, even Mun, are still called 'moons'. It'd make things easier if they just gave 'the moon' a distinct name. Especially once humanity became interstellar, space faring people, names like 'the sun' or 'the moon' are going to become completely redundant...