Ekku Zakku

Ugh, that wasn't my point... The challenge is in having to manage longer build times, for those who want it, but it's at the cost of waiting longer or dealing with less accurate SOI changes on other craft due to a higher max time warp (although I might also be able to get around that as well). Even then, that's only for the players that use the "warp until ready" feature too liberally, which isn't the point of the feature in the first place, since it will cost a lot more Kerbal time.

I'm kinda limited right now by the max time warp (although now that I think about it, I believe I can change that... whether it's a good idea or not due to SOI changes is another thing). Construction time really isn't meaningless, it takes care of that weird insta-building of rockets that irks players like me, and will add an optional challenge (with additional waiting at max time warp, or doing way more planning depending on your playstyle) with more realistic build times. There is also still the restriction on being able to launch rescue ships immediately after realizing you need one. Really, the only way for this to be balanced is to be able to cater it for the players, which I have discovered thanks to our discussion (and I'm still loving it, it's very much needed). In the end, realism is one of the key goals and we've had that discussion before. It does still add a time dynamic, just one that will be more noticeable within the Kerbin/Mun/Minmus system rather than the whole Kerbol system. As for that, having to do research and test flights through a career mode might be the extra limiting factor to make launch windows much more critical. The way to make the construction time meaningful is not just to add more waiting, it's incorporating it into the game as a whole. You wouldn't expect DMV Simulator 2013 to have no waiting times, would you? At the same time, you wouldn't expect a Space Program game to have no time elements either?

You guys were wanting it to not interfere with launch windows, waiting, and stuff like that in the first place lol. 1 or 2 days for simple unmanned rockets, the smallest possible manned rocket that'll make it into orbit, or ones that are suborbital is reasonable (you wouldn't want to wait more than a day for your first tier-0 flight in career mode, would you?), not one that you can take to the Mun, and taking more than a day to rendezvous with a craft that's running out of life support, or didn't pack chutes and is hurtling towards Kerbin with no hope of survival isn't likely in the first place anyways. That would still require planning. A player won't want to take a decade to get to the Mun or even Duna, but I feel like an inexperienced player would find that first Duna window kinda difficult to make with a restriction like this. For the experienced players or those who want more of a challenge (like most everybody here), remember, I still do want to add a realistic time restriction as well. I should have mentioned those were what I felt were "balanced" values for the average player. Double the max time and raise up the minimum time some, and that would roughly give you realistic times. I also haven't even taken into account rockets that have been built repeatedly, or spaceplanes that are reused; to balance that, an initial build for your Duna rocket just might take 10 days, or 5 if it's tiny, but subsequent builds and revisions of it would take less time. It just gives the player more freedom with how they want to plan their space program.

Thanks! Also to correct what I mentioned in my previous post about getting the in-editor stuff done today, I'm afraid that will have to wait. I was going to work on it in class, but we got our final exam assignments given to us today and I needed to start working on them. I've got a lot of work to do by this weekend, so I won't have a lot of time to work on the mod (*cough*but I will when I'm bored with homework*cough*). Can't say when I'll get more stuff done yet. But, I do know what will come next. Along with the in-editor stuff, I will also add a "Stop Time Warp" button to the Flight GUI (since I realized it was needed today), and finalize the location and text of the icon to show/hide the GUI (I'm not gonna bother with an icon image, since text is going to be best for that I think. What would I even use for that anyways? A wrench? idk lol)

I love this idea, and I think it'll work pretty well. Remember, there was talk not too long ago about KSC buildings being destructible; I wonder if the same system, when it's done, could be implemented for bases. As for using it to pillar into the sky, perhaps only rooted parts or parts under a certain height above the ground are taken out of physics, so parts built upwards actually would have physics (and would require a good base and strong supports to be built to any decent height). Overall, I think it could work =3

It is a pretty big difference considering the Kerbol system is so small. Time passes at about a second per day at max time warp, and if the days it takes to build is too big, then warping through build time really would be waiting. A 10 to 20 day build max (say, for Whackjob's creations) would be long, but understandable. A 5 to 10 day build for huge asparagus staged rockets would be common, 2 to 3 day builds for medium-sized, and 1 to 2 days for small rockets or planes seems like what I'm leaning towards currently. It also helps with them being short, since 10 days or so is gonna be your launch window to Duna, if you start building too late it'd be possible to go for a cheaper approach and still make it there. This, I feel, also goes along with how Kerbals would really run a space program; fast, loose, and cheap! I can imagine Werner Von Kerman saying, "hey Bill, I forgot to tell you that your Duna launch window came up yesterday, might want to get on that!" and having all those silly builders in the VAB rushing to get a ship done in time. I'd imagine that they'd care less about safety than us, so they could get a rocket built in such a short time span.

Didn't get to the Editor Timer quite yet, but I was making so much progress with GUIs that I felt I had to get a new version out today. GUIs actually aren't so bad after all XD I'll probably get the in-editor stuff done tomorrow. Can't guarantee that the "Show/Hide KCT" icon won't interfere with other mods, I'm just not too sure where to put it currently =P at least that massive main window can be minimized now lol. Also added a pop-up when time warp is stopped due to an SOI change.

Why wait until the ship is ready then? Why not go out and actually manage time like a proper space program would and launch multiple missions? That's what I'm going to gain the most from the mod, since I don't like "linear launching", or doing each mission after you finish the last one, ad infinitum. Currently I don't have motivation to run multiple missions at once, but having to wait to launch will make me want to multitask so I won't have to (even though warping until ready will take essentially no time at all, just adding that extra roleplay element helps).

I'm crying over here XD Thus why my mod will have a "Simulate Launch" button, which possibly won't handle every case of that, but will still help. Later on I'll probably add a feature to update a rocket that is in construction or ready, but hasn't been put on the launchpad (and only adding or subtracting the time from the previous version, if parts were added or removed, respectively). This will make quicksaves useful if you're doing another mission, say, after you made a burn as Kegereneku mentioned, but only afterwards notice a flaw.

Really? I already have a feature in my mod that stops time warp if a ship crosses from one SOI to another... It's easy to implement and makes for much better gameplay. And going along with that... This is essentially what I'm doing, but also having a "warp until ready" button to allow a user to skip dealing with other flights just to get their ship ready. Anywho, off to work on the mod some more XD

We discussed time passing in the VAB on the "Do you think rocket construction will ever "take time"?" thread, and concluded it was a bad idea. The devs also don't like it XD it just interferes with current flights a lot more than would be pleasant.

Yup, I'm just a busy guy XD I work in retail, and the last week was obviously quite crazy. I'm gonna put some more work in tomorrow, it'll maybe be a week before I get the next version out though. Don't worry, after Scott Manley vaguely mentioned my mod in episode 11 of his Interstellar Quest series, I'm quite dedicated to this mod now!

This is why I want to remove the vessel from the world entirely, since I know just having the fuel and electricity removed isn't going to work in every instance (like for those who use the launch clamps as fuel pumps). Same thing with the GUI, it needs lots of work and I hate making GUIs without a GUI maker =P I'll go ahead and change things/add a countdown until the build is ready, it does make more sense to have that lol. Thanks for your input! Exactly the kinds of things I need to hear =3 Also, how exactly will RemoteTech interfere with this mod?

Yeah, that's more what I mean, I didn't want to imply "Pe over 70 km, simulation over!", because that would be stupid XD I just don't think that simulating an entire mission would be that great for the mod, since dV readouts from other mods and dV maps and those things should take care of that, if the player desires. Just knowing the rocket works is the main thing.

I'll work on the reusability aspect later, but I envision that having a recovered SSTO would go along the same route as a standardized rocket, the more you launch it, the less time it takes, and the first version of an SSTO isn't going to be refueled and launched again after its maiden flight; it'd make sense that it would be worked over to ensure reliability. Perhaps in the SPH I can shorten the build times in general, since planes are so often reused. I'll think about it more later XD I was thinking about a time limit for the simulation, possibly just until orbit, but it'll have to be playtested I'm sure to figure it out. I know the launch is what goes wrong most with new craft, so just knowing it can make it into orbit would be enough for me. I think the clock will be my next feature then, it would be pretty useful (thanks Nathan, I'll be sure to check your mod out for that!). When I get further along I'll certainly think about having it only in career mode, but since it's just 1 small .dll, and it's simply for testing currently, I won't get to that right away. Keeping it in sandbox right now is actually a pretty good thing for testing =3

I did not, it all came about from the thread I listed in the opening post lol. And thanks for letting me know, I fixed it =3

Nathan and Cooly both leaving a post on my mod thread, you two are awesome XD I'm not sure yet what I'm going to work on next, so anybody who tries it, let me know what seems most needed and I'll focus on that first.

This project is now owned by magico13! I decided I wasn't able to finish development of the mod due to life reasons, so I wanted to hand it over to somebody who was already familiar with the code and did his own development for the mod already. Good luck magico13, I know you'll make the mod what it needs to be =) NEW THREAD HERE: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/69310-WIP-0-23-5-Kerbal-Construction-Time-PreRelease-5-%284-30-14%29 I will update this thread with more details when they become available; I'm sure magico will want to make his own dev thread, and as such, this one will likely be closed down at some point. Thanks for all the input you guys have given me, I'm sorry that I'm not the one to finish this mod. I had a lot of fun though, and I hope that it will turn out to be what I envisioned it to be! This is my WIP plugin, brought up from this thread. I realized that this was the kind of thing that I always felt KSP needed, and took it upon myself to make a mod to make it happen (and to test my skills as an upcoming professional programmer). KSP needs more "space program" elements, and while Squad is currently implementing career mode, it seems like it will be a while (if ever) before they implement some time elements to it. http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/kct/ Alpha Version 3: Editor Clock! There is a bug with the current version; when construction is complete, the vessel on the launchpad is still empty of all resources. To get around this, press the "Warp to Launch" button when construction is complete in order to fill the vessel up with resources This will be fixed in the next version! Source Code Disclaimer: this mod currently may have undesired effects with mods such as ones that add life support, as it removes all resources currently in a vessel. This will be dealt with in later updates! This mod makes rockets take time to build, rather than being put instantly on the launchpad ready to go. My planned feature set is: Rockets take time to build. ✓ (TODO: work on a build time algorithm to make things balanced and believable) Rockets in construction are added to a list, and cannot be put on the launchpad until they are ready. (This will require saving to a file, to prevent loss of craft) Warp to launch button, in order to skip to when a rocket is ready. ✓ While warping to launch, stop warp if a vessel crosses into another SOI. ✓ Launch Simulation, to test a rocket before it is launched, while not disrupting your save. (I like the idea of this; if a rocket passes the simulation without exploding, it could still explode on the real launch! This adds a bit more realism, and gives some much needed uncertainty to the game) With Launch Simulations, allow a user to make changes to a craft and update it in the build list. Research takes time, unlocked parts aren't available immediately. Lowering construction time based on repeated builds of the same craft. In addition to/alternatively, give an option for "Experimental" and "Production" rockets/planes to help minimize construction times (this idea popped into my head recently, not sure if it's what I want to do in the end, but I thought it might be worth looking into). Clock in the VAB/SPH to tell the user how long a rocket will take to build. ✓ Update a rocket that is in construction or ready, in case a flaw is noticed too late (perhaps a "rollback from pad" option as well? I'll deal with that when I get to it). Possible integration with Kerbal Alarm Clock. This mod, from my point of view, will add a lot more incentive to run more missions at once. Adding a realistic time element that will cost the player in time (currently to no effect) if they launch craft linearly, without considering that they should plan ahead and have them ready to go beforehand. It also eliminates the slightly immersion breaking effect of KSC pumping out rockets like a broken fire hydrant. I hope you enjoy this little demo of what's to come! There's a lot that still needs to be done, but putting this out for other people to play with will help me test, as I don't have a whole lot of time to invest in programming as well as testing the mod extensively. License: https://github.com/EkkuZakku/Kerbal-Construction-Time/wiki/License Changelog: Alpha Version 3: Implemented VAB and SPH clock, to tell how long a ship will take to construct. I'm still pretty happy with the build time algorithm I implemented last version, so it will stay for a while. Finalized the location of the show/hide GUI icon, let me know if it doesn't fit with another mod, or if it's in the way of something with your screen resolution! (I did research several other mods and where they had their icons, I think mine won't clash lol). Alpha Version 2: Plenty of bug fixes to make the mod a lot more useful, timewarp can be stopped more easily (and by KAC, if it's being used), and put down some of the foundation for having a construction list. Alpha Version 2: Improved GUI; can now minimize main window, and added a pop-up when time warp is stopped due to an SOI change. Alpha Version 1: Initial release, basic functionality

Yeah, speaking of that... It was all ready and I was wanting to put it up tonight, but Git is retarded and difficult to learn, so for now I'm going to get some sleep and tomorrow morning I will put the dev thread up lol. *shoots self for not going to bed earlier* EDIT: development thread here, for those who want to follow it: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/59704-WIP-Kerbal-Construction-Timer

Well, I'll see how things go when I further along, but I don't see why not. I'd probably have to detect if the player is using KAC or not, and if so, interact with it in order to create alarms. I'm not quite sure how I'd do that right now XD

Alright, sorry it's been so long without any word on my mod, but I got swamped with work and school stuff. I got pretty near to an initial release around last Tuesday, but haven't put the last few touches on it yet. Expect the development thread tomorrow though! So far, I implemented a "warp to launch" button that does exactly what it says on the tin, checking of other vehicle SOI changes during warp, and to prevent a vehicle from launching while it's in its construction time, I currently remove all the fuel from the vessel. I will later be removing the ship from the launchpad entirely, and adding it to a list of ships in construction, but that involves a bunch of GUI stuff and saving craft to a file, so I'm saving that for later. Also the current build time I have implemented is just taken directly from the cost, where 1 unit of currency = 1 second. I think later on I want to have it related to both cost and part count, but I'm not sure how I'll do that just yet. With the source code available, I suppose anybody can suggest how best to go about that XD I want to avoid implementing KAC entirely, since I think that should be the player's choice, but it would of course be highly recommended due to such a big time element being involved.

Of course it's very possible to do in 2, I've yet to do my second mission in my 2-launch unlock save, but it'd be quite easy. I doubt this so much you wouldn't believe... the most recent record for tier-0 science was about 5500, and I'd say a tier-0 tech tree unlock would be in the odds of about a trillion to one. It also certainly wouldn't be done before .23 is out, which is going to change science as it is.

It's true that build times should be scaled down for the Kerbal universe, I can't believe I only just realized it lol. Because the system is scaled down and things happen so quickly, a transfer window will pass by faster than one would in reality. Thus, in order to avoid passing over those windows, the time to build should of course be scaled down. If this will end up being a feature of KSP, and there are no options to determine how long the user feels like they should wait, then a scaled down build time will be the only way to do it. Of course, it will be trivial to make options for a mod, and mine will let anybody chose their desired wait time =3

Not yet, I just want to have a little bit more done (a simple working thing with no major bugs like the SOI change problem I have with it now). I'll let you all know here when I make it! Might be by this weekend, since I'm quite interested in spending my evenings until then coding it. This will be my first real programming project that isn't school-related lol. Don't worry though, I've always been a natural at programming XD I'll definitely get it made, it's just a matter of managing my free time.

That's only for those who do a linear progression of missions, rather than multitasking several missions at once (which I really want to do, but since I only come up with big, difficult missions rather than small, easy, progressive missions like a real space program would, I never really get the chance. Career mode missions would give me that). This feature is really only for those who want more realism in their career modes, and while regex calls it tedium, so is launching progressively larger missions and unlocking better parts. What else is there to expect from career mode? You start off small, and work your way up, even if you're capable of making 1-launch grand tour ships or SSTOs to Laythe. The career is a space program game, not just a rocket building and flying game like the sandbox =3 this is just something else that will add to the career, but I can certainly see the desire to not want it. Just a matter of player choice, like the career mode will likely be to a lot of players, due to the restrictions.