Halsfury
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The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
All right, beyond this post, there will be no more discussion about Hodo's airplane and it's score which currently rests at 48 points. And yes Darren9, did get 79 points which is very good. I'd like to see more stock entries with BD armoury so that people can actually fight each other's aircraft. For instance I battled my own F-32 with a modified FAR Firehound M and found that my design is superior in energy retention. If we all have each others aircraft we will all be able to share ideas and increase our scores, and importantly test actual fighting characteristics of our aircraft -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
I myself have had trouble keeping a supersonic plane on the straight and level when moving so fast, I trust that all entries don't intentionally seek to violate the rules and therefore allow some room for pilot error. If you want to make a point about it, and I suggest you don't, then tetryds, as a moderator, can put out your flame war very quickly. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Gamer, try not to be too much of a stickler, it's my challenge after all and 12,500 meters is within the ballpark. - - - Updated - - - Thanks tetryds, also I remember that you said you built a stock FAR craft, which one was that again? -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Alright that's enough of that, Hodo, please redo to make gamer happy, if you want help tallying up your score post all the relevant data and I'll add it up. Yes tweak scale is fine. Darren9 I will add your score, it sounds pretty reasonable, I have around 74 points so far, also you can keep improving on it and have your score changed later -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Yes you can use procedural wings & mod parts so long as FAR takes them into account Also I'm not going to make stealth a necessity because it's still an open question as to how much stealth helps. The Russians and the French don't believe it is 100% necessary for example. Instead they rely on offensive electronic warfare measures like ECM pods, and of course chaffe and flares, which is more traditional but has the advantage of being proven. Also it's hard to make KSP aircraft stealthy in stock, and we have no way of measuring stealth in KSP -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Ok tetryds, I didn't fully understand what you intended when you first brought it up, but I see your point. for now the weapons must be a super cruise payload, to avoid huge weapon spam. Later we can add missions for points and build a package of crafts along with procedure for flying missions to test the aircraft. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
I'm going to institute 2 points per weapon or hard point which can safely carry and eject weapons. I think this will fit nicely with the drop tank scoring. Also don't worry the BD armoury parts are not that hard to balance. They do cause drag though, enough to make a cannons only combat measurably faster. EDIT: Also I changed the demerit points section of the rules to "A Helpful Note" with much the same basic purpose but without making a rule out of it, since it was unenforceable anyway. I think it's better now -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
I don't know what image you wanted to show, but I think I might make VTOL worth some points. On my end though I started to find that my aircraft, Now named the F-32 Hurricane II, was getting to be super manoeuvrable! but I lacked the finesse to pull off the pugachev's cobra manoeuvre. As a result I thought why not show another super manoeuvre to collect the points? So here is the tail-slide for 10 points Also I'm toying with the idea of making weapons an alternative to drop tanks in scoring how many points per weapon do you guys think to make the score roughly equal with a drop tank score? -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Welcome to the challenge, to mitigate failed airframes I suggest looking over the design of some 5th gen fighters and take it from there, my aircraft is modelled after some of the newest Sukhoi fighters, compare the Sukhoi-30MKI, with my X-32 As to the thing with turn rates, the main thing with using G forces as a measure is that it's easy and tight turning is not a real concern for a fighter, the only concern is that the aircraft doesn't lock up at high speeds and is well designed enough to do what the pilot wants. @Hodo: Your numbers seem about right. I'll add it to the scoreboard, also what's the name of the aircraft? - - - Updated - - - Also I downloaded BD armoury and am very impressed, last time I played with it was version 0.24 I faced off against the new AI in my X-32 versus another drone X-32, and discovered that even though I was raised on combat flight sims, WASD is a horrible way to control a fighter and the drone seemed very adept at tuning the tables on me. The good news then, is that the X-32 is a good weapons system, the bad news is that I'm incompetent;.; If anyone wants to put their craft files up here maybe we can take them home and have a BD armoury war-game with them for the ultimate test -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
I'm back! Azimech, you should tot up your score, but you can improve with some area ruling, the little nose cone and other 0.5m parts can smooth out your cross section to reduce your transonic wave drag. This is the reason you're not getting great top speeds. You should be able to do much better than mach 2.3 at 3k. When you're doing these tests though toggle your gear up in the hangar, it will give a more realistic impression of your performance. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Yeah, the TWR must be 1:1 at some point but it doesn't have to always get that ratio. Many fighters are designed to work only at certain speed and altitude ranges, for instance the P-47 Thunderbolt was useless below 24,000ft (about 6000m) yet above 24,000 it could outturn everything fielded by Germany and Japan at the time. The moral is that with a fighter, the engine and it's performance is the limiting factor -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
More area ruling lol Also, I've had yet more trouble with super manoeuvrability, the rearward sweep on the wings needs to be overcome! Also since we've been on the subject of supersonic VTOL, check out this terrifying freak of a plane! the Bell XF-109 It's got death written all over it with 8 jet engines total! 2 in each nacelle, and 4 packed into the rear like C class rocket motors into a cluster booster made by arsonists. Oh and it's a tilt jet, so those nacelles swing through 90 degrees for VTOL, that would be even safer! -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Ok, that looks great, and within challenge rules, I won't hold the VTOL engine to the 50% throttle limitation because it's hard enough as it is. Now you need to screenshot the various qualification tests and points tests. EDIT: In other news my design is coming to maturity, I've done some tweaking and reduced the wave drag below 1m^2 which nicely made the aircraft super manoeuvrable at the same time (moving the wing forward and inward) Now I have only to move the tailplanes out to a point where they provide more control authority in high AoA situations -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
All the nuFAR versions have nicknames which must be inspired by the kerbal name generator, I have no idea why but it helps keep track of the versions. They all have names beginning with F at any rate EDIT: Maybe I'll find out more about AJE and make a leaderboard and adjust the rules for it, but for now everything is legal so long as it uses the 2 jet engines which are stock. Also Hodo, I'm a really big fan of VTOL aircraft, but you've got too many engines, if you want VTOL 1 engine is all you get for VTOL and 1 for horizontal thrust. BULLETIN: Also if anyone has skills with gimp or photoshop and some free time, would it be perhaps possible to get a sig medal designed for this challenge? -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Well a drop tank is kinda only external, I suppose you could have an internal drop tank, then pop open the bay and eject it, but why would you want to waste the space on a bay on a small ship? FourGreenFields asked about what counted as super cruise with payload, when I was designing the challenge I meant super cruise with full payload measured in litres of fuel, now if you have a bomb of 2000 kg then you'd have to calculate how many litres of fuel that would be so 2000/5=400 litres of fuel would make 2000kg. Also I meant that super cruise with payload would be with the full design payload, i.e. the same amount with which you did the fuel lifting challenge. - - - Updated - - - That sure is a new approach to area ruling, I like how the mid section is waisted just by using adaptors and no homemade anti drag blisters. Also that wave drag area is seriously low at just 0.43m^2 - - - Updated - - - Yeah I was thinking about this. It might be the right way to go, in fact that's just the right kind of nerf, not arbitrary or meaningless either, it's just a reasonable design requirement -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Same happens to my drop tanks, the wind just catches them after a few seconds of flight and then they rip Post some pictures we'd love to see them and craft files are always appreciated too. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Ok I built my drop tanks, the plane can take off with them (landing doesn't need to be tested with drop tanks they can be thrown away beforehand anyway). each one is filled with 960 litres, or 4,800kg of fuel so this gives a total of 38.4 points and it flies like a milk truck. The range is around 3 hours (despite what the screen shot says) for 2 points But then I used a time warp speed of 2x and this happened, the good news is that they separated cleanly Now my interim tally is 37 from previous tests added to 40.4 points for a grand total of 77.4. then 10 bonus points for a meagre super cruise when loaded with the drop tanks of mach 1.04 as pictured above so 87.4 is my total so far. Now I'm going to go and try to top tetryds top speed - - - Updated - - - Yes super cruise is 1/3rd thrust on the turbo jets when they are 50% limited, you'll know you're doing it right when they don't produce the afterburner effect, which was partly the reason for the choice. Any more that 1/3rd throttle would produce after burning effects - - - Updated - - - Well this makes life really hard... friction is tough to deal with -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
well you have 1,200 litres per drop tank and 2 drop tanks so 1,200 x 2 = 2,400 divided by 50 = 48 Maybe I should nerf that, can you super cruise with all that stuff? If not it might be better to make the bonus for super cruise with payload significant so that you don't want to make the trade off any more. It's still a new challenge so I have to figure out just how to balance it, I don't want to reduce your points either but the ease with which you can pull that off... I thought that getting that much fuel into the air would be hard, after all each litre is 5 kilograms of fuel so you can lift 12 tons extra? Ok I'm going to go see what happens when I do something similar. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Since that was your top speed run you don't get any points up to mach 2.0, the points only start rolling in once you exceed the requirement. so mach 2.1 is worth 2 points, mach 2.2 is worth 4 etc. unless your saying that that was a cruise speed run which is a bit improbable. Unless your saying that you accomplished a super cruise of mach 2. So with super cruise that would be 10 points (mach 2), for top speed 46 points (mach 4.3), TWR would give you 1 point, and 9 g turns give you 5 points. So 62 points is your interim tally? Could you post your super cruise run? Also if you super cruise at mach 2.2 then that's 12 points not 10 because there is no limit which says that super cruise is only between mach 1 and 2, it needs to be sustainable on cruise power that's all the rules say -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
You can apply for the challenge so long as you meet mach 2 top speed at 10km, mach 1 cruise speed at 10km, have a high TWR, don't crash, and pull 6g in a sustainable manner. You've definitely made the requirements for speed but if you can't cool it down, then mach 4.2 will be your top speed, but I really want to see how it turns out now, with all that excess power Also your score for speed so far is mach 4.2 -2.0 = 2.2, 2.2 x 10 = 22, and finally 22 x 2 = 44, Frankly I should go back and see if I can go any faster, top speed is a very useful advantage to a fighter and it's weighted pretty heavily by my rules as a result - - - Updated - - - Is this possible in FAR? The rules are designed to encourage area ruling aircraft and sound design to cope with subsonic, transonic and supersonic flight regimes into a single aircraft. If you can really do it then show the FAR flight data GUI in images -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Actually that's doable I just misunderstood what you were trying to do, range only tests range and max super cruise speed is only a test for max super cruise, I don't see why you'd have to do both tests at the same time, so long as you use the same amount of fuel in both cases, so that we can get a clear picture of performance. - - - Updated - - - I've never heard of AJE, the intention was to make the challenge more focused on stock aero solutions but I can see why people want custom wings etc. I get that manned and unmanned doesn't matter in KSP but the grading system reflects realism. Also I don't want to make KerbinSide necessary for playing the challenge, also the needs of a manned fighter differ in many ways to a race plane. If you want though, so long as you come up with the rules for the races I'll create a leaderboard for it and post the rules on the OP. Also you have to choose just one race course, it would be untenable to use several as I'd need to keep separate leaderboards for each. - - - Updated - - - NOTICE: I've updated the rules to make the challenge more understandable based on the questions you guys have asked. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Q: Will you get more points for pulling more g forces? A: A manned fighter is limited here, due to the pilot, since the idea is to create a competitive fighting machine, I don't see an advantage to being able to pull 30 g when doing so is worthless to the pilot also the challenge is for continuous g forces in a turn not instantaneous turn rates Q: Speed close to the ground is important, why are there no points for it? A: If you can hit high top speeds at 10km you will surely do well, at lower altitude, 10 km was chosen because it corresponds to 33,000ft which is roughly a cruise altitude, and it's important to be able to compete against manned air superiority fighters high up. Q: I suppose when measuring flight time (not range) in supercruise it is enough to stay at supersonic speeds (= you don't need the max cruise throttle of 1/3 turbo jet, or 2/3 basic jet)? A: If you can super cruise with less then go ahead, but I don't see why you wouldn't use everything you can for speed to get all the speed points, which at least for my design are easier to get than range points. Q: Just to make sure, B9 Procedural Parts (spefically the wings) is allowed, right? A: If you want, Q: Can thrust vectoring stay enabled? A: Thrust vectoring was always enabled, you can't really do post stall manoeuvring without it. Q: Can you use realism overhaul or other kerbin rescale mods for greater realism? A: You are actually putting yourself at a disadvantage since the atmosphere on kerbin is smaller and thins faster than earth's atmosphere, should you do this I would look up what the pressure is at 10 km on kerbin (in FAR) and complete the challenge at the corresponding rescale altitude. -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Yes it is possible with basic jets in FAR. One needs to area rule the aircraft to the point where there's very little wave resistance to the craft. We're talking wave drag area less than 1.0m^2 If the aircraft in question is able to get to around mach 1.22 under 1000m then it will break mach 2 at 10,000m It is easier to take the turbojets, even as they have been nerfed by challenge rules, they can tolerate larger wave drag areas. My design has a wave drag area of 1.08m^2 for instance, this would be unacceptable for a basic jet powered craft which would need something like 0.6m^2 wave drag area In fact I'll even concede that maybe the rules should be purely turbojet based, but I think there should be a basic jet hardcore mode. -
Kerbin Circumnavigation 1.0.2 - Aviator Challenge
Halsfury replied to Fengist's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
Can you complete the challenge with FAR? -
The 5th Generation Fighter challenge [FAR]
Halsfury replied to Halsfury's topic in KSP1 Challenges & Mission ideas
I've been hard at work trying to create something which might even score a point. Many designs ended in the most kerbal way possible. Many test pilots were stretched out upon the earth as I figured my way about completing my own challenge. I think I got a good result though. It uses turbojets because flames! which are thrust limited by half, it still has mad performance. I initially built this design with basic jets but they gave me ceaseless trouble, then while tinkering I thought; why not see if this thing has any potential? The new engines were mounted and they produced a serious improvement not only in thrust but also in area ruling. Before this point anything I tried just failed to cut down the wave drag. I figured that based on my experience, if you need a turbojet for the design to work, it need only be thrust limited to 50% so you can't just crash through the sound barrier regardless of how good your design is. It still needs a separate leaderboard, since when the turbojet gets going at high mach the thrust output increases, consequently it has a range of super cruise speeds depending on how much fuel one feels like spending. Mach 1.9 is just about the limit for cruise which for a turbojet is 1/3rd throttle on a 50% nerfed jet. Top speed was also determined by how crazy Jeb feels, mach 3.1 on a mediocre day I found that the design has a TWR of greater than 1 but only at speeds which are already high, so it was difficult to measure accurately. The craft is pictured here pulling 10 g's at mach 1.7 and can pull more instantaneously in some situations. pulling more than 9 g's is worth 5 points Finally the most serious test, landing, it's absolutely mandatory (for obvious reasons) The breakdown so far. -22 points for a top speed of mach 3.1 somewhat north of the 10km altitude target, so maybe I need to redo this test. I got 1.1 mach over mach 2 for this so each 0.1 is worth 2 so 11x2=22 -9 points for mach 1.9 top cruise speed, each 0.1 mach being worth 1 point over mach 1.0 -TWR of 1 or greater is possible, though it needs a run up to get those jets working. 1 point -5 points for 10g turn -Range is about 45 minutes without drop tanks (which have yet to be designed so I'm not finished the challenge) 0 points awarded for range bonus and no drop tanks to score. -Can this craft super cruise with external stores? I bet it can, but as of yet 0 points -Super manoeuvrability remains an issue, though the craft is very manoeuvrable by traditional standards, it still can't do anything that cool. 0 points there Interim Final Tally: 37 hard won points I predict that there will be a lot more turbo jet entries...