camlost

@ferram4, How do we make sure that Start() of WingManipulator is called before FARBasicDragModel? The pWing is still problematic even if the mesh is updated with Start(). One potentially better solution is FAR provides a public function to update wing interaction that can be called by other plugins. Also could FAR provide some in-flight info about wing interactions, to make debugging easier?

The stall problem remains. How does KSP determine the sequence of OnStart() of multiple partmodules being called ?

FAR needs to detect mesh in order to know which wing part is in front of another, this process is called wing interaction. The mesh detection is done when Start() is called for the FARWingAerodynamicModel. So pWing must update the mesh before Start() is called for the FARWingAerodynamicModel on the runway. Right now it is done in Update() Fail to do so, FAR does not know a trailing edge flap is behind a wing part, so it would make it stall early.

@Bac9, a serious problem that might be simple to fix on your side. Yet on the runway, the mesh of wings are set during the first round of Update(), if I read it correctly.

Seems like the mesh is setup in the first round of Update()

I advise against doing this, the way FAR treats inlet currently, you'll have a cockpit with no drag. You need a custom FARBasicDragModel as well. Then it's not supposed to work in that situation, your point being?

Yes, both ailerons stall at the same time, at 15 degrees. Early enough means?

Minor stall at 10-15 degrees regardless of the AR of the wing before it.

@ferram4, Seems like bac9's new procedural wing is till having problems in wing interaction. Trailing edge flaps behind a proc wing stalls early.

Kerbin's atmosphere is 0.7 times rescale of Earth. So the question is, in reality, what kind of airplane is able to fly at ~30km altitude. That is not a trivial task as what Squad fools you into believing. You'll need something like U-2, or SR-71, or X-15, to do it. Or proper use of ramjet as mentioned previously.

Better inform ferram4 to change that then.

Good to know, I haven't play-tested the new ramjet since code rewrite @Renegrade, better not do this before ferram4 figures out something more advanced. Currently, FAR would ignore drag of a part with inlet.

SCRamJet is very different, thus cannot be done at the moment. In reality, an F-16, which uses 1 x F-100 turbofan as well, has 3000kg internal fuel, compared to 750 kg from one mk1 fuselage (you seriously only have one fuselage then? your TWR must be around 3 then. Real, not real?) Yet full afterburner at sea level does not last long.

I don't get what people mean by "difficult". Difficult compared to what? To reality, I don't think so. To stock, did stock do a good job?

I absolutely refuse to do that

That's a feature not bug. It detects whether ModuleEngines or ModuleEnginesFX is used.

The sound is odd yes, as a result of using real throttle instead of stock's linear throttle. We probably need another plugin to make it right. About engine size, they really shouldn't be all 1.25m. I recommend Procedural Parts or use this patch for tweakscale @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[TweakScale]]:Final { !MODULE[TweakScale]{} } @PART[*]:Final { MODULE { name = TweakScale type = free } } @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[WingManipulator]]:Final { !MODULE[TweakScale]{} } @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ProceduralPart]]:Final { !MODULE[TweakScale]{} } @PART[Kz*]:Final { !MODULE[TweakScale]{} } @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[FARWingAerodynamicModel]]:Final { !MODULE[TweakScale]{} } @PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[FARControllableSurface]]:Final { !MODULE[TweakScale]{} } What's the problem with B9?

First, how many people bought the game knowing there's FAR? Second, Squad is not EA, modder are not that keen to join it.

I think there's a reason why Squad don't want to incorporate FAR. What they are making is a video game they need to sell, thus the development focus has been always to introduce *shiny* new features. From this point of view, realism doesn't sell. Because that and the fact that their lack of knowledge in science and engineering, KSP did not,and probably will never satisfy people who are looking for "sims". The community however, is building a sim by heavily modding every aspect of the game. So I'm not too worried even if Squad make bad decisions, the community should be capable of dumping KSP and rebuild it from scratch, making everything right from the beginning.

You guys misunderstood things. First, ferram4 is not quitting, he simply implied giving up the current implement of determining wing geometry because it is difficult to maintain. Second, the GPL license clearly dictates that FAR cannot be used as part of a proprietary software. If they want it in game, they have to ask, and they haven't.

Fixed with new FAR.

@PART[Mark1Cockpit] { @author = Ven !mesh = DELETE !MODEL {} MODEL { model = VenStockRevamp/Squad/Parts/Command/mk1Cockpit/model } MODULE { name = ModuleAnimateGeneric animationName = MK1Light startEventGUIName = Lights On endEventGUIName = Lights Off } MODULE { name = ModuleResourceIntake resourceName = IntakeAir checkForOxygen = true area = 0.006 intakeSpeed = 10 intakeTransformName = Intake } RESOURCE { name = IntakeAir amount = 0.5 maxAmount = 1.0 } } About this, when an inlet is added to a cockpit, you must add a FARBasicDragModel as well, or FAR will be broken.

In \RealismOverhaul\RO_SuggestedMods\Squad\RO_Squad_SPP.cfg @PART[shockConeIntake]:FOR[RealismOverhaul] { %RSSROConfig = True !MODULE[TweakScale] { } !mesh = DELETE MODEL { model = Squad/SPP/ShockConeIntake/model scale = 1.722222, 1.722222, 1.722222 } @node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -1.07638875, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 2 @category = Propulsion %maxTemp = 2000 } Why is this inlet resized along with Mk2 parts? If that's to be done, AJEInlet area should be rescaled as well.

New version up. All the jet engines and inlets redone. I haven't playtested every of them, and some mods are not updated for .90, so there could be bugs/balance issues.