Raptor831

Made an official entry here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/46209-Intrepid-Mission-to-Duna-Duna-Permanent-Architecture-Challenge I'll be posting there to keep this thread clean, and I'm hoping to actually fly these missions in full. Hopefully that won't take too long! Here's the short version: Equipment:

Intrepid Mission to Duna Original challenge here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge Concept After examining Duna and considering the President’s Vision for a continuously manned outpost on the surface, we’ve launched the Intrepid Mission to achieve this goal. The Intrepid Mission will land 4 kerbals on Duna by day 500, and include 16 kerbals by the end of day 1000. After this time, continuing Intrepid missions will function at a much reduced cost, or allow expansion of Intrepid Base. The location of Intrepid Base has been predetermined, based on the ease of landing at said site. It is near the equator, and is in a large and deep valley. All resources will be landed near this site, and the base modules are planned to be within 1km of everything, depending on the accuracy of our landings. The launch vehicle, Explorer, is rated at 30-tons to orbit, and has a turnaround time of 45 days thanks to its reusable boosters. This gives us an even 5 launches per full window in the 1000-day plan, with a total of 150 tons-to-orbit each window. Aside from our launch vehicle, Intrepid will use nine pieces of hardware, all of which will be made for multiple launches to increase efficiency and reduce cost. This mission will have a high degree of redundancy and safety. All modules will have a backup or a contingency plan in case of failure or destruction. Each 4-kerbal crew will spend about 376 days on the surface of Duna. Each crew will have a second crew on site during their stay, with an 80 day changeover when only one crew will be on-planet. All crews will have access to rovers in the mission plan, giving the crew good mobility. These rovers are short-term vehicles, as long-term rovers can be lifted as the mission progresses. Lastly, this mission will become self sufficient by the end of this 1000-day plan. The presence of kethane in-system will allow our vehicles to refuel on-site. This allows a wide range of options unavailable if only Kerbin-launched fuel and resources. Oxium and other supplies will still require launch from Kerbin, but these are much cheaper to launch than fuel. Equipment Explorer Launch Vehicle ~180 tons 30 tons to 80km orbit 61.5% reusable by weight Interplanetary Habitation Module (IHM) Transfer habitation with space for 4 kerbals. Supplies for 187 days on board (to and from Duna, plus spares) 4200m/s delta-V, enough for transfer to and from Duna. “Eden†Surface Habitaion Moduel (SHM) Surface habitat for 4 kerbals. Supplies for 187 days on board. Enough thrust and delta-V for hybrid drag/thrust Duna landings. “Janus†Reusable Ascent Vehicle (RAV) Ascent and descent vehicle for crewed Duna operations. Space for 4 kerbals, docks with IHM to transfer kerbals. 2300 m/s delta-V, enough for landing, ascent, and orbital operations. Duna Supply Module (DSM) Launched in multiples, contains supplies for the mission. In standard launch, contains 750 days of supplies. Uses only chutes to land, unpowered. Duna Surface Rover (DSR) Two-seat rover for Duna operations. Rated at speeds up to 10m/s, self-righting. Launch in pairs, enough seats for each crew. Intrepid Refueler Craft (IRC) Fuel and supply ship for ITS and IHM. 3400 m/s delta-V, can operate in Duna if needed. Supplies included to replenish IHM. Intrepid Transfer Stage (ITS) Duna transfer vehicle, used on needed payloads. Carrying 30 tons, 2100 m/s delta-V. Enough fuel to make off-window burns if needed. Can be returned to LKO for reuse. Kethane Orbital Station (KOS) Duna orbital station for processing kethane. Makes sustained operations possible. Includes scanners for kethane detection. Can operate around Duna or Ike. 3500 m/s delta-V, can transfer to Duna on its own. Kethane Extractor/Lifter (KEL) Mines and stores kethane from Ike or Duna. Takes to KOS for processing. Most useful for Ike operations, but can operate on Duna. Mission Plan Mission will be conducted in 5 phases, each coinciding with the 5 transfer windows opening during the 1000-day plan. Phase 1: Launch preliminary modules, scout landing location, land supplies ahead of main mission. Phase 2: Launch crew habitats, launch transfer stages, establish Intrepid Base at the initial site of landing in Phase 1. Phase 3: Launch additional habitats, expand landing site, add second crew. Phase 4: Launch final habitats, launch kethane modules, set up sustainable kethane pipeline. Phase 5: Establish rotating crews, launch any redundant modules, conduct any science packages as designed. Phases 1-4 is the “true†Intrepid Mission goal. 4 kerbals will set foot on Duna by day 500 (the initial goal), and 12 will have set foot on Duna by day 1000, with 4 more en route at the time. First launch will be ready on day 10, and every 45 days following. Given the planetary cycles, that gives 5 launches per window in the initial period. Each window has at least one launch that can be scrubbed to ensure than any lost primary payload can be replaced. During Phase 5, a maximum of 2 launches are required to continue operations, leaving 8 launches for scientific operations or additional infrastructure. Intrepid Base can be expanded at a rate of 1 Eden SHM per window, given that supplies can be sent to cover all kerbals currently on-planet. At any point during the mission, an emergency launch can be readied to retrieve stranded kerbals. A Janus vehicle with its ITS can make a one way, high delta-V, off-window burn if necessary to cut down on the interval time. In case of a single SHM failure, any other single SHM can be used to house all 8 kerbals on-planet until either a new SHM arrives or extraction can take place. The IHMs will remain on station for the duration of each mission, providing emergency egress if needed. This vehicle can make slightly off-window burns without refueling, but after kethane assets arrive, the vehicle can make emergency transfers off-window if needed. This redundancy keeps the mission on track even if any one vessel is lost at any point, either during launch, transfer, landing, or on-planet. Early in the mission, the schedule will be tight as we build up the resources and modules needed in-system for Duna. After the initial build up, more secondary launches open up, making emergency launches more available. Detailed Mission Schedule: Key: Type column -> colors designate which Phase each launch/transfer is a part of. Hardware column -> green designates transfer out, red designates an arrival. Scores Given a fully completed mission with no emergencies, scoring should be as follows: Primary Scores: Early Mission Value: 612 Early Mission NIMLKO: 11 launches, 330 tons Early Mission Efficiency: 1.85 Sustained Mission Value: 3796 Sustained Mission NIMLKO: 22 launches, 660 tons Sustained Mission Efficiency: 5.75 Achievement Scores: Mission Execution - 0 (will fly missions in the future) Crew Mobility - 2 Base Mobility - 0 Crew Safety - 1 Mission Robustness - 2 TOTAL: 5 (hopefully 8 with full Execution score later!) Mods used: MechJeb, KW Rocketry, NovaPunch, AEIS, B9 Aerospace, KSPX, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Crew Manifest, TAC Fuel Balancer, Kethane, Procedural Fairings, Editor Extensions, Fusty’s Station Parts, Kerbal Attachment System, Chatterer (doesn’t affect craft performance), Subassembly Manager (doesn’t affect craft performance), HyperEdit (testing in “simulator†only) Mods installed, but not knowingly used: Fusty Station Expansion, MapSat, pWings Other notes: I could have maxed out my score a bit by not worrying about kethane on Duna and not worrying about my Robustness and Safety scores. I wanted to go for a more “realistic†(as much as KSP is realistic!) score, though, so my hard numbers aren’t impressive. Hopefully, I can make up for it as I fly the missions. I was inspired by the Constellation mission video, which I wanted to emulate for this. I couldn’t quite do that given the restraints of this challenge, mostly due to the weight required to do so. I might have made a massive 50- or 60-ton launcher and gotten away with it, but I would have had to nail every launch to get 4 kerbals by day 500. With what I have, though, I got close enough to call it good in my book. I think I got the spirit of the mission though! This is, by far, the most interesting thing I’ve done in KSP. I'll be posting in this thread as I complete missions with pictures and updates.

Yes, that's true. But let's hope the Proteus (and the crew!) holds together until then!

You, sir, have a knack for the dramatic. I get mad every time something goes wrong with the Proteus' crew, which is a good sign for any story! But why the death!?! They're supposed to make it back ok! Ok, sorry... Need to remain calm. Thanks for the great story, and I'm looking forward to finishing it!

Almost ready to submit my mission plan. I need to do some final testing of all the modules before I commit. Make sure I didn't forget batteries anywhere... In the meantime, I can show off some pics of what I do have. Here's my launcher, the Explorer, rated at 30 tons: Reusable boosters from Explorer, splashdown was within ~10km from KSC: My rover module in testing: Rover container landed (on the launchpad again) ready to be deployed:

I actually did that when I started setting up my plan. Max you can lift over the 1000 days is 660 tons (or close), no matter the size of the lifter. It all comes down to the timing of your launches and what you can actually send to Duna. Which is why I trimmed my payloads down to under 30 tons. Not as good looking, but they get the job done just the same. I still have to trim my launcher for 30 tons, but it does qualify as reusable at 34 tons so I'm still good there. I like wide margins anyway... I'm still not setting kerbals down until the second window, as I'm sending a large kethane/MapSat probe and an unmanned lander. But if my plan holds it will be 5 kerbals at the second window with dual redundancy for habitats. Next set will make the base self sufficient (kethane), add a rover, and 5 more kerbals. 3rd window will have more rovers, 5 more kerbals and original crew coming home around the same time. Last window (which doesn't make it before 1000 days) will increase safety (extra escape launchers) and add still more kerbals. I'll have at least 10 kerbals on Duna at once, with missions being around 400 days per 5-kerbal crew. We'll have a regular train of interplanetary vehicles transferring back and forth, and I can send rescue landers at almost any point. Once I get the plan cleaned up I'll post the official one here.

Well, back to the drawing board. When planning my missions, my timeline is so tight I can't miss a single launch or vehicle, and I've only got 10 kerbals on Duna by the end of 1000 days. And no rovers or science-y cool stuff. Looks like a weight reduction is in order. NeilC, I guess you were right. Or, I guess if I increase the nominal mass of my launcher enough I could just lift it all at once. Will have to test it out again.

Yeah, I know about the missed window... :sigh: But it's only 6 days off-best-window, so I may just eat the dV penalty anyway. I'm going for the "rule of cool" more than I'm going for score. I tried, really really hard, to get my payloads below 30 tons to hit the 2-launches-before-transfer window, but I just hated the way they looked. I was thinking that I may send a "research" flight up first, with kethane scanners and other "science" stuff to act as a scouting trip. I want to use kethane in-situ so I gotta find a pocket somewhere. Alternatively, I may send some infrastructure equipment (supplies mostly) to Duna then. Get a site ready for the main launches. I'm shooting for a Constellation-esque mission, since I was inspired by this video: Won't be quite the same, but I'm hoping for close. We shall see... I'll be back with a proper plan, hopefully soon!

This challenge is too amazing to pass up. I've been feasibility testing designs, and I think I've finally gotten enough to throw my hat into the ring. Still in the planning phases, and have no full mission plan as of yet. I do have a launcher (34 tons nominal mass), a lander, a habitation module for 5 kerbals, and a transfer stage ready. I've got to figure out mission timing, habitation for transit, and supply chains. This is a great challenge, thanks!

This is supposedly a stock bug (which is frequently triggered with MechJeb/Kethane). Support thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/42601-Star-map-stuttering-on-rotation/

Looks like I'll have to retry the launch with the new craft for .21. I need to try and get a few more drops of fuel out of it anyway!

I think as long as you're heading upward at at least 100 m/s after 50 or 60 km, the drag doesn't kill you. According to MechJeb, you take most of your drag losses before 10,000 m, I think. I'd have to test that to be sure, but hey, guesstimation is Kerbal. I've had orbit insertion stages that had a TWR of .6 and still made it. I like my launch stages to have around 2.3 TWR, so I can hit terminal velocity fast. After you hit 1500 m/s velocity, you're really only adding to your horizontal velocity, so TWR doesn't matter as much. I'll have to try knocking down my max accel to 22 m/s^2 and see if that helps eek out a few more fuel points. The last one I did was a one off, so I could probably squeak out a bit more.

Sweet! Congrats! I think around 4330 m/s was the best I've ever seen in my launches (which funny enough came on a Mun landing mission, I think), so I'd agree that this is about as good as it gets! Unless, of course, you drop the Ap and the Pe down a to just above 70 km. If you don't mind posting, what were the parameters you used? I, for one, would love to see that!

I'll throw my hat in. 318/450 = 70.6%

Sweet! And RL comes first, no worries. I'm just really curious as to what the graph turns out to be!

Any luck on the visual aid? Oh, and *BUMP*

Oh. My. That. Was. Amazing. That's gotta be the best planned mission I've seen so far. Oh, and for landing on a freakin' docking port? That's gotta be the single best feat I've seen in KSP. Ok, enough gushing. I finally got a working "side landing" hab module for a future base. Hopefully, it will be going to Duna, but I've tested it on the Mun a few times. May have to use a landing system like yours to pull it off though. That canyon seemed quite hairy to land into!

My path was in a previous post, so hopefully you can use that! I'd just have a plot, y-axis for altitude (0 km at the origin and 75 km at the top) and x-axis for pitch (start at 90 deg and go to 0 deg). It'll also look a bit like the arc, so it'd be intuitive visually. It'd also be nice to compare when people start their gravity turns, how flat or curved the turn is, and when they just push for velocity.

But it's so Kerbal... Seriously, though, this mod rocks! Thanks for taking the time to do this!

I basically had goals to hit for each flight level I hit. I started the gravity turn at 6000m, I believe. (it might have been 5000m, I did so many I forgot!) The degrees of pitch at a certain altitude went as follows: 6000 m = start (80 deg) 9000 m = 70 deg 12,000 = 60 15,000 = 50 20,000 = 40 25k = 30 30k = 20 35k = 10 40k = 5 45k = 0 (i.e. "Bring me that horizon") As I said in my previous post, I tried not to touch the controls at all. If you put your nose on the outer ring of the velocity vector you tend to arc over like this naturally. I had to hold in a few spots and push it over in a few others, but for the most part once I started the turn it went happily where I wanted it. I set MJ to limit accel to terminal velocity and 22.5, so you hit 22.5 m/s^2 accel just before you begin the gravity turn, which prevents MJ from messing up your horizontal terminal velocity. Once I was done with the gravity turn, I changed the max accel to 12.5 (highlight the 2, hit 1). I stayed on the horizon line until the apoapsis reached 74 (which I actually missed, was busy looking at the fuel remaining!). At this point you're probably around 50k-52k, so you've got a minute of upper atmosphere coasting to do. Since I overshot, I didn't need to pulse to ensure the apoapsis stayed high enough. I let MechJeb do the circularization burn to only 74.1 km. Don't have any vids or anything, so I hope the description makes sense!

This is how I put them on my rockets: You want them pointed mostly up, with a bit of an angle out. If you put them straight out, sometimes the exhaust will hit the main rocket or (if it's light enough) it will just flip the booster really fast back into your rocket. This way it just pulls away nicely and slowly from your core.

What I found out was that the autopilot was costing me too much delta-v. For most of that run I was just letting the rocket naturally arc over for the gravity turn. I had marks I wanted to hit, so I adjusted as needed. Made for the horizon at around 45,000 m and cut the accel to 12.5 m/s^2. If anyone wants my flight profile, I'll post it up here. I'm sure that number can be broken, because I overshot the apoapsis by a good bit.

The further the CoL is behind the CoM, the more stable your craft is. It also means your maneuverability goes way down. If you make a craft that reenters with the CoL in front of the CoM you do death-flips into the cold, hard ground. I've done that many times. Ideally, they should be close to each other for normal flight. If you want a quite stable craft then you really want the CoL about one "ball" behind the CoM. Also, if you can't pull up, is it because you simply don't have enough lift? Or not enough control surfaces? Both of those will hurt you in glide.

Now that's how you aerobrake! Bet Jeb loved that.

Woohoo! I made it to double digits! I almost didn't believe it! I did a hybrid between manual and MechJeb. I used MechJeb for limiting the throttle and the orbital info, but the actual piloting was manual. So, here's to breaking your categories!