Raptor831

The next version of Stockalike will have Svm420's RealPlume configs included. You can remove them and use others, but it will come with some plumes. It won't cover all of the engines, though. I'm trying to push a bunch of stuff into this update, since I'm also changing the folder structure to remove the config files from /GameData/RealFuels/ to keep that folder clean. All of this is available at the GitHub repo (linked in the OP) for anyone who wants to try. If you do, be sure to do a clean install of RealFuels and then install the Stockalike folders. Hopefully, I'll get to putting in some new configs that were submitted over the last little while (thanks for those again!). JT2227: Use insulated tanks, if you're not already. That will help, but not stop it entirely. I can't remember if the thermal radiators are still in Real Fuels, but those would actively cool the tanks, which almost removed boiloff entirely (IIRC). But really, boiloff is just a problem of spaceflight you have to live with. You can thank science.

As regex said, per the license - which is CC BY-SA (which in quick terms means you can modify with proper credit for the originals but keeping the open license) - you can modify the configs and release them. And, on a personal note, you have my permission to do so. Always happy to see more options floating around, myself. There is no hard dependency on any effects plugin. You'll find some older engines without effects, but that's simply to do with the decision to make RealFuels engines derive from EngineSolver (which derives from ModuleEngineFX). You can use RealPlume, HotRockets, any of their custom setups or derivatives, or roll your own effects. Real Plume has some nice templates for you to start with, even. I do agree that it's a bit annoying to lose effects, but I'm willing to deal with that. And I've not found SmokeScreen to be RAM intensive. It's more processing-intensive, though, than stock, but that can be mitigated. As mentioned above, there are some nice config starters from Real Plume (they're on the Stock plumes page, I believe). HotRockets has a nice tutorial on the SmokeScreen configs (from which both HotRockets and RealPlume derive their effects).

You need to install the RealPlume configs in the right spot to make them work, as well. I've had them installed, but in the wrong spot, and they didn't work for me. Dunno if there was something else going on, but install them just like the Stock configs they have available. Should be in /GameData/RealPlume/RealPlume-RFStockalike/. The end folder name doesn't really matter, IIRC, but it needs to be in that spot. This is all set up in the current repo, but that's not "release ready" at this point. But you can certainly use what's there. I'd just start from a fresh RF install because the install path will change with the next release of Stockalike. Also, as mentioned on the OP, the effects missing is a known issue. It's a side-effect of moving all RF engines to the ModuleEnginesRF, which aren't effects-compatible with the original ModuleEngines. (ModuleEnginesFX ones are fine) If you're really itching to get those effects, write RealPlume configs for your favorite engines and please share. Check to make sure they aren't done already (file's in the repo), but I'd love any contributions. Svm420 has already gone above and beyond getting what we have (thanks again!), and I'm a bit pinned down with other stuff at the moment. So, if you wait fully on me, it might be a while.

Probably not wonderfully. The only engine I deal with that I know is KSPI is the methane engine (which I'm not even going to try and spell, at the moment!). Unless the KSPI-E team has added any other chemical engines, that should be it. The other changes are mostly electric engines or engines these calculations can't even begin to describe. We've talked about letting them bundle any RF/Stockalike-type configs in with KSPI-E directly, since those engines are so specific. But even the generator I have up doesn't help with those. And I don't generally play with KSPI anymore. So, in short, I don't really know. If you have some specific errors/incompatibilities I'd be happy to try and fix my end.

Yup, very interested. Thanks! Config generator is up to date, yes. If you make them, be sure to submit via the generator as well as a PR. Makes it easier to keep them updated later. As for the ratio, it's just a flavor number that's also a realistic number. I have a spreadsheet I keep to give each "personality" a set of mixtures/ratios so that it's a little more interesting. If you're doing SpaceY, you can just use the ratios already established. Should be fixed, thanks!

Wanted to mention that if you're currently using or going to use the dev version from the repo, make sure you delete the configs out of the /GameData/RealFuels/ folder that are in Stockalike. The install changed, so be careful. Might be easier to just wipe the RealFuels folder and reinstall RealFuels with Stockalike over that. Currently, the repo includes Svm420's RealPlume configs. They shouldn't do anything unless you've got RealPlume. As always, if you do use the dev version let me know if I've missed something or screwed something else up.

Well, honestly it's safer there than here. At least there's a big list of "hey, you missed this!" than one random post on page 76 that I've already forgotten about. Also, missing engines is a major glitch, in my opinion, since this is an engine config set! As long as it's not "hey, something broke!" without leaving at least a log or a screenshot or something. lurkaholic left some good bug reports in the issue tracker, if you guys want examples. Basically, tell me what exactly is wrong (i.e. Mainsail thrust is half of what is listed in the config and webapp), post the logs and/or appropriate ModuleManager.cache sections, and reproduction steps if applicable (place a tank and the Mainsail, throttle up, thrust reads 150 kN). The more info I have to go on the easier it is for me to find. If you're unsure it's a bug, check here. I won't be upset if we have to confirm something. I also try to keep the OP semi-updated for known issues (like the plumes breaking), so check there too. And on to a bug report! @FireFaced I'm not quite sure of exactly what the error is you're having. Is the engine just DOA when you get in-game? Or is this preventing load? I can say with some certainty that the FX probably need a RealPlume setup or at least a HotRockets-type setup. IIRC those did not have the ModuleEnginesFX set up and will not display any FX with this right now. Can you post up the ModuleManager.cache file Vulcan section? Would like to see what the final part node looks like to make sure everything looks ok. NathanKell, et al, would know better exactly what's breaking from the errors, but before I send you over there I want to make sure my configs don't just suck.

Still working on getting everything updated. I've been taking it a bit easy lately, more or less to offset the business with RL lately. So, not a lot of progress, but it's still going. What Svm420 said is correct. If you want to "combine" them, just install the Stockalike version, then only install the Stock Configs that are not covered within the Stockalike version. It'll get you the most engines configured. There's really no way to make them "compatible" anyway. Just like you can't use RO engine configs with Stockalike. The engines should all be respecting stages and crossfeed that you set. I haven't noticed anything funny, but that doesn't mean it isn't messed up. Can you confirm with a minimal setup? Like a poodle, fuel tank, docking port set to disabled, and another fuel tank? If so, post the logs and your ModuleManager.cache file. The Atomic Age configs were probably built before that engine came out. I want to sat that one is new. We can go through and check though. Also, as a PSA, it might be helpful to report confirmed bugs/engine omissions on the GitHub repo at this point. There's enough going on that I'll eventually lose track of something. But if it's at least in the GitHub's issue tracker, it'll be there waiting for me.

Wait! Joseph!? No man! C'mon! Great episode. Remember when Joseph was the "bad guy" in Gateway. Come a long way since then. I know the cinematic portions are really arduous to do, but they certainly are amazing. Thanks for all the work!

Yeah, neither one of those should have anything to do with the ullage/ignitions at all. If you could, post up your logs somewhere so we can take a look. RE: RLA - Oh, boy, new toys to set up! I'll put those on my list of additions. Actually on vacation at the moment, so forgive the lack of updates. @lurkaholic I see the PR you did for the Stock Revamp engines, so that should be in place soon. Thanks!

Hrm. I'll take a look at that. I thought they were a little more broad than that, to be honest.

That's right. Thanks, Starwaster, didn't remember the tech level detail.

The RealPlume configs don't cover every engine we have in Stockalike. That's a lot of engines, and I'm really happy Svm420 was able to get what he did so quickly. The rest will come over time. Alternatively, you could try the Stock configs for RealPlume, but make sure they use ModuleEnginesRF and not ModuleEnginesFX. Or even HotRockets, with the same caveat. The engines that break used ModuleEngines, which do not use EFFECTS nodes by default. Switching them in this manner completely nukes their effects, so you just need to get EFFECTS nodes set up for them. It's "simple" but it just takes some time. @Svm420 I'm not surprised if it doesn't work. Min throttle needs to be set to something above 0 to be not fully throttleable. I threw that config together in about 10 minutes. If it's something that we want to add, I can make the throttling default. Also, ignitions, you should get unlimited with anything below 1. 0 or -1. I could be wrong, since I don't remember what the code looks for, but I'm pretty sure it's assumed that all engines have at least 1 ignition, so anything below that would imply unlimited. On another note, my adventures in Linux ended unsatisfactorily. I'm apparently a bit too frugal with my hardware, which is so old the newer versions of Ubuntu and the associated drivers don't like it. :sigh: Might try again later, but my quest for more mods has ended. Back to working on the issues here.

I was really hoping that wasn't the answer. I had seen that AMD had stopped supporting older cards, but I was still hoping. And the dumb this is that the Ubuntu open source drivers say they work with the card. Ah, well, everything still works on the Mac. Thanks for the help, sal. Might try later, and if I do get it to work I'll be sure to leave a note here.

I'm having trouble getting Ubuntu to work properly for me. I can install Ubuntu on my external drive, load it with rEFInd (I'm on an iMac), and launch the OS. The problem is I can't get the graphics drivers to work with my card (I think). I have an old card (Radeon HD 4850) which is a notebook card to boot. Since, that's how Apple rolls... Anyway, I have to boot with the "nomodeset" flag, since otherwise it's just a black screen. With that I can get into the desktop, update the OS, launch programs, etc. But there's no way I could play KSP on that. I've tried the newer open source drivers as described in this thread with no luck. I've attempted to get the legacy AMD Catalyst drivers, but I think I botched that. My next move after reinstalling Ubuntu is to try and install fglrx by building from the legacy driver without trying anything else. But, I'm not confident that'll work. Does anyone here know of how to get this card to play nice? Or at least point me to some resources? I'm on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. I'm open to using another flavor of Linux, especially if it'll work without having to hunt down drivers everywhere.

Ok, basically the problem looks to be it's still using ModuleEngines and not ModuleEnginesRF. The ModuleEngineConfigs is trying to reference the MERF, which might cause issues too. Try changing the ModuleEngineConfigs part to reference ModuleEngines instead and see if that helps. Otherwise, I think you'll have to just update to the dev version and wait for a plume. I haven't messed with electric engines because I have no idea how to scale those things. They're already way overpowered compared to reality, but considering gameplay I'm not sure we'd want to have 16-hour long burns to worry about. None of my mass/thrust calcs work for an electric engine. I'm not knowledgeable enough in electric propulsion to come up with those calcs, so I ended up leaving it alone.

If the max level is not set, it should default to the highest possible. For NTRs, it's TL 8. The minimum TL for an NTR is 3, so that at least makes sense... I honestly forget how to set a max TL. I want to say it's in there, but I'd have to check Real Fuels again to make sure. Stockalike doesn't use that at all, to my knowledge. Can you post the part in question from your ModuleManager.config file? It's odd that your engine is stuck at TL 3, and I want to see what the final part looks like.

Yes, actually, it is what rocket plumes look like in reality. Because there's less and less pressure, the exhaust expands faster and faster. If you find a launch on YouTube and check it out (say SpaceX or a Soyuz, or even a Saturn V) you'll notice it as the flight progresses.

In the SmokeScreen menu you can specify the maximum number of smoke particles. It defaults to 8000, but a max of 2000 seems to be the magic number for a lot of people. Adjust to your liking.

All engines that don't have an EFFECT{} node will need one, since ModuleEngineRF is based off of ModuleEnginesFX. RealPlume can add one, or HotRockets, or you can roll your own. RealPlume configs are pretty easy to set up (see their tutorials). If you write some, please share. I'm planning on compiling any configs for Stockalike specifically and releasing those with the config set, so I'll need help to get them all. In the meantime, I'll update the LVN Cluster engines in the app to reflect your changes, since I got those engines you sent. EDIT: They're in the app now permanently. If you want to submit the pull request from your fork (for proper recognition, since you did the work!) please do. Otherwise, I can drop those in. Ok, cool. Glad it was nothing. Please let me know, as always, if you find something that seems off. Better to check it out, especially with all the new changes.

I checked the repo, and at least there the engines have ullage specifically turned off. Link: https://github.com/Raptor831/RFStockalike/blob/master/GameData/RealFuels/Stockalike_KWRocketry.cfg#L2551 Are you sure you're up to date? If you are, post your ModuleManager.cache section for the ullage motor as a start, and maybe one of your logs.

Ah, those are newer as well. Explains why I didn't recognize them. Might want to just try replacing ModuleEnginesFX with ModuleEnginesRF and see what that does. That's the only thing I could see after a quick glance.

Hmm. I don't remember having a config for those. I can certainly put that on my list, though.

Which part exactly is that, and what mod? I don't recall any NTR clusters that are in Stockalike, off the top of my head.

I'll be doing just this hopefully this weekend. Finally got a decent enough external drive I can use for Linux-y things, like playing KSP in 64-bit. @ebigunso Yeah, VMs are great but not for gaming. It's just hard for the virtual machine to access the resources needed to run stuff well. I've tried this with an old XP install running on my Mac in VirtualBox. 2D games worked well enough (like Command and Conquer), but 3D ones just plain broke. If you can find an external drive (you don't need a big one, like ~40GB would do if all you want is an OS and a few games), you should install Linux on that. Not sure how this works on Windows, but on Macs you can just switch your boot drives at will (on startup or in the OS). I've had an internal OS X, Bootcamp Win XP, and an external bootable OS X all connected before without any trouble. It definitely is worth the effort to get this running.