helldiver

We're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So hopefully we should get this out soon. The big part of the project is soon coming to a close (all the art assets). Next step is getting it all in KSP. The cockpit has just taken me a bit because it just has a lot of detail and such. But it's UVed and the Sub-D is almost done, just got the seats to do. Yup, and that would be no to your other question as it goes completely against the design. As I explained earlier I'm making an orbiter, not a parts pack perse. This is also a no currently. As I explained earlier being able to switch the name of the KSO is something for the future. Everyone is getting the Dauntless test KSO, later on I might be able to work with ZRM if he's willing (and by later I mean way later) we may be able to come up with some shader system for that, possibly using the technologies he developed for the MFD. Essentially the entire orbiter would become an "MFD"... However doing that right now is out, we're not putting anything else on our plates. I want to finish this project, and want to be flying it ASP. Bogging it down with additional programming, bells, and whistles might cause us to enter "modding hell" or fizzle our enthusiasm (the most common causes of mods dying before they are completed). Fantastic!

Something about it is distracting, I think it's the tapes going too far up and down the screen; I would make the tapes as long as the height of your ADI gimbal, and the compass as wide as well. alternatively you could do something like this where the tapes are over the ADI gimbal:

Nah, just pick one. Or you can have the angled one come up when you switch to ILS mode, as that makes a bit more sense. You also want about 5+ black or dark pixels around the whole thing so it doesn't bleed into the surrounding MFD object and it looks like an actual screen.

Yes I saw it, great work! Specially getting all shaders to work Don't know why but I prefer this aircraft symbol over the other one, just seems more precise to me. As well as a much larger ADI gimbal. Typically the speed and altitude tapes will be centered on the aircraft symbol. The compass is also centered on the aircraft symbol as well.

-Separate the Glass on the MFD's no problem. -HDG will become NAV, and NAV will become ENG. Although I think what they are requesting is throttle setting information on the ALT screen. Going to rename ALT to ADI to keep things simple. -More transparency, no problem. That was just a test at like 50% opacity. I think about 10-15% is about right. I don't want to scratch up the screens, rarely is that stuff scratched or dinged as it is a very important instrument. -No looking into IVA from the external view. The cockpit right now is sitting at 19,000 triangles; although I foresee us gaining back about 1000 since the seats and control column haven't been optimized yet and are still in the "master" state. Even though the buttons use a single UV and are then copied, I'm concerned with performance hits. It would also require at least two more days worth of work to make it fully 100% compatible with the external view. I'm not burdening the people helping me with making that possible. You'd hardly be able to see into the cockpit anyhow since the windshields are tinted. That's exactly how I wanted it to look in game. Good job! The engine for my game also does the same nonsense; Normal, or Specular but not both. You really can't have a normal work too well without specular highlights. You use the specular to help define the detail that the normal is pushing. For this project the normal map is really being used for improved lighting information, not really using it for details (although the seats will take advantage of the normal maps a lot more). KSP uses very simple and clean lines, so having too much detail and floaters on the normal can break that.

Oh I didn't notice you said Max. Yeah, if you render any of my work in Max, you have to set the Normal map to flip green. When you select Normal Bump in the roll out, you will see an option for Channel Direction. Make sure Flip Green is selected.

Ahh ok. Hrm. @ZRM, did you flip the green channel on the normal, or are the lines on the corner of the MFD (on the first picture you posted) just a result of the .JPG resolution? The in-game shot looks perfect though.

Hrm, how did Bac9 and those guys do transparency on their windshields? Did they also do a custom thing? The emissives are to allow you to turn on the cockpit panel lights at night so you get better visibility.

Man, you're freaking awesome! Working on the cockpit to try and marathon it today. Hopefully, as long as I don't get distractions... it should be done by tomorrow. Also, don't worry so much about the test MFD, that is giving us the feedback I needed. I actually put all those textures on it as a test. I knew that Unity didn't handle textures too easily and that you pretty much had to program it in. Just wasn't sure if the KSP team had solved that or come up with their own routine.

ALT is the ADI you are making right now, that would come up. HDG would be the HSI with compass rose and all that jazz. The rest I think you can figure out, let me know if you need layout or more information on the other MFD modes. We won't use ILS, A/P, DTV, or Docking modes for now. Unless you can figure out how to implement those? Converting to FBX and I will PM you the download link Sorry for all the posting, had to step out several times.

Hrm I think I already accounted for that, we shouldn't have issues. Going to convert to FBX soon as I get done here, I'll then upload to my webspace so you can download it. You'll have to manually assign all the textures in Unity or what have you. Will explain the buttons in a moment.

Gotcha! You understood exactly what I meant! Ok, should have the MFD ready in about an hour or two

No no, you are correct, the ADI is part of the PFD, sorry for the confusion. I meant the texture assets for the display (the numbers, horizon gimbal) that stuff. Can they be put on the same texture sheet as the PFD box?

I forgot to ask, The ADI instrument texture, does it absolutely have to be its own texture? We can't put it on the PFD texture sheet as well? Or would that complicate things for you? I would give you a lot of space, we can do 1024x1024

Gotcha! -Don't worry about the mode data for now (HDG, ALT, A/P, and the purple numbers). -A/P in green in that picture means the ADI is set to Autopilot information mode, so it displays the purple numbers which is what the autopilot is set at. Ignore that for now. -HDG SEL at the top is Heading Select mode, it's when you're punching in Heading data using your VOR's, FMC, or other device. Ignore that for now. -ALT is Altitude mode, basically an uncluttered ADI, this is the one we'd be using. It also puts altitude data on the ADI gimbal. -VOR, DME, VOR Identifier code and frequency, ignore that we won't use that for now. But we may in the future. -Don't include the barometric pressure data. We won't be using that since we won't be adjusting instruments do to barometric pressure differences. Besides in real life pilots dial that in using ATIS info, or NASA automatically has a prelaunch team set all that up. Hence players won't be screwing around with instrument calibration... Although to be honest, that would be cool and something we can think about in the future in cases where players try to land the KSO on other planets -The compass rose at the bottom is circular, can you make it square like this one? -We need that one so that players know what heading to rotate to. Although you can also put heading information at the top of the ADI gimbal.

Most displays I've seen are 1:1 or 3:4 variable ratio Resolution (I'm going off of the F-16 MFD) was 512x512p 4"x4". I'm assuming on an airliner or Shuttle you'd add an inch to that. Ok, gonna get you an MFD, with buttons, their collision meshes, and the display Pane. That will all be linked in a hierarchy so you can test things. By layout do you mean cockpit panel layout? Or do you mean the MFD information itself? The cockpit panel is already laid out if you see the pics I linked. I placed the gauges and MFD in the locations where they are typically placed in aircraft to make it easy for a pilot to keep track of all instruments during his monitoring cycle. Those Guages and MFD's are temporary though. Most aircraft (and that would apply to the space shuttle), follow the same layout and it has become almost a de-facto standard with a lot of influence from the FAA. You don't just put gauges and instruments where they look pretty

Oh you wanted an HMD Ok, so pull the HUD off? Although I wasn't planning for the Kerbals to wear their helmets while in the flight deck.

You're horizon is perfect. I prefer that one to the one the Space Shuttle uses. We're making a Kerbal shuttle after all. Besides, I prefer your clear ADI much more than the smaller cluttered ones I see on the Space Shuttle. If you've already made an ADI like that, then the HUD is halfway done. All we'd have to do is apply a transparency to your textures. Fantastic job! Also, don't make it circular. Leave it rectangular like you did. Quick question, on the MFD you're going to slap this ADI and other systems on, do you need anything special? Basically I have a Box, with buttons, that's about it. I'll have a picture for you soon as I get home. Do I need to separate the glass pane you're projecting on or anything? You want to wait for the full cockpit to be textured and done? Or would you like me to send you an MFD you can play around with?

We're way beyond stock-like man... We're like in orbit... @ZRM Are you sure we should do a HUD? I mean it's modeled, and I've already started UV unwrapping. I'll be doing Sub-D tomorrow for the normal maps, AO bakes, and specular. -You lose some visibility by having the HUD. I made them foldable, but you still lose some visibility. Real ones aren't really foldable, adjustable at best. You think you'll be able to program the HUD? The view from the PIC View with HUDs folded. We can play around with FOV and Depth of Field I suppose to give players a better view? View from the rear All my shots are 1920x1080p, but I resize them to 800 so the forum doesn't get all fudged.

Outstanding! Soon as the flight deck is done and instruments, I'll send it to you. I have a few questions regarding collision meshes in the cockpit, but I'll get to those once the art is done since scaling or resizing is easy.

I'd rather the ADI and HSI be separate for a number of reasons. Only a few modern aircraft do that, yet they still have a separate HSI. It would be impossible and very confusing to have both on the same screen. Notice the separate screens for ADI and HSI: The space shuttle uses a similar layout, notice the HSI is selected on the left most MFD, and the ADI is on the right of that. (large image) I wanted to keep the analog gauges while we tested and got the stuff above going. Also just in case something got bugged? Unless you want to make an MFD that is selectable? So we could pull up which ever display we wanted on any MFD? [Edit] Sorry there is some confusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Primary_Flight_Display.svg The bottom circular thing is just a compass rose with VOR to-from information (or ILS marker info) it is not an HSI. You don't use that to punch in HSI information or to line up properly on a glide slope. It's simply there so you have a single screen to look at while maintaining proper heading without having to look over to the HSI or VOR instruments. Also, an HSI works only in the atmosphere with ground transmitters (VOR Stations, NDB, ILS systems). We can worry about an HSI later. It would be impossible for you to create a functioning HSI without laying out ground VHF stations or rigging up the KSP runway with an ILS transmitter. I will make those parts in the next phase of this project. What do you think? You can ask me any information you wish regarding those instruments and how they more or less function.

Yeah, that's not a problem it's all already done that way. The lower strut is an olio designed to slide in and such.

Ok that's not a problem. Let me finish brick and mortaring it and I'll send you those components. So while you work on that portion, I'll begin the collision meshes of the external orbiter parts so we can get this project in the bag. If Tiberion is up for it, or someone else of his or you guy's caliber, I could also outsource the FBX-Unity-KSP process for the flight components. I would just need to coach them or work with them regarding the special animation requirements of several parts, specifically the landing gear, ventral RCS port, and the air-stair. They are already animated, it's just that I don't know how to Unity/KSP handles that. For example, they are currently animated Opening. Does Unity/KSP Automatically reverse the animation back to closed? Do I need to animate a "closed" animation from the open position? How does Unity/KSP know when to trigger the animation? Unless animation isn't a big deal? How do I get the landing gear to animate properly in KSP? Is there anything special I need to do?

Wow did you guys luck out... No tangent errors, or texture errors. I learned something new regarding tangents, seems they are preserved even if I split off and then re-weld. The original shuttle was actually baked as one piece. I've never had something like that go so easily (took me like 5 minutes). Usually I end up with tangent errors and have to re-bake that whole piece. Had to touch up the AO but nothing that took too long. So I'm back to working on the cockpit. Now I'm wondering if we should just weld the Cargo bay to the command deck segment? We'd end up with one long piece, kind of feeling meh about that though. I'd rather leave them separate so that in the future we could add a crew/passenger segment instead of a cargo bay.

That's fantastic! If I were to send you guys the parts of a CRT screen to be made into an MFD, what parts do you need? -The screen itself -The box containing it -Buttons with collision meshes. Anything else? -Do I need to punch out a letter/font sheet? -Compass rose and associated graphics? I'd texture it, pack it, (normal map, diffuse, etc), and convert to Unity friendly FBX2013. [Edit] What sucks is I had a version of the shuttle that had the SAS and Cockpit segments welded together as well as a sub-divided high resolution mesh specifically for it. I deleted it a couple days ago since I figured I didn't need it...