Sternface

The entire point of KIDS, IMHO, is to require the player to build rockets that closer resemble those needed to deal with Earth's much larger mass and radius - or to just make things harder (or to compensate for FAR to bring it closer to stock). In other words, the point of this mod *is* to render craft built for vanilla ISPs useless without heavy redesign. Why install a mod whose primary function does what concerns you? If you enjoy the added difficulty/complexity, then you are probably going to have to ditch crafts designed for vanilla ISPs if you want to go beyond suborbital.

If I am not mistaken, the ISP settings in KIDS should have zero effect on the stock required ÃŽâ€V for a particular maneuver. Rather than altering the ÃŽâ€V itself, KIDS simulates this by raising the required amount of fuel needed to attain a given change in velocity (via lower ISP.) So while you will need more fuel to execute a given change in velocity, the stock ÃŽâ€V map will remain unchanged - and therefore accurate. P.S. Use whatever setting you want - the ÃŽâ€V map will remain the same. You will just need more fuel, and possibly a better mass ratio.

Lol, nice. In general aviation we have our $100 hamburger (basically an excuse to fly somewhere). Seems like rocketry has its $7,000,000 pizza Interesting bout the X-20 - never knew that! MedievalNerd: That custom module sounds pretty cool if you ever find the time for that Time to familiarize myself with the mechanics of your custom experiments! Now, assuming everything works out and this turns into something you like, I could see a plane tech branch as being another alternative for how you currently have the supplemental branch using stock science to fill in the gaps. Assuming your tree keeps the alternate stock science, it could then be used as a replacement for stock science for those interested - making it optional without the annoyances of maintaining different trees. It's not exactly rocket science P.S. But it can be confusing. Are there any installation guides anywhere? Would be cool to have a single post containing all the links, patches, fixes, and problems.

Who needs an oven? Connect a heatpipe to the heat shield But I like your jet idea better. If we're delivering pizza by intercontinental ballistic missile, might as well go big Rube Goldberg has nothing on KSP

I suppose you could deliver a 1,300kg pizza to someone half-way around the world. Guaranteed hot and under 30 minutes Scramjets would be cool, but like you said, it's totally doable with early rockets (like IRL).

For sure. Reading over this thread it's pretty clear you have a full plate+ lol. I really need to learn to code

I installed it today and it worked fine. Try reading from HERE to the end of the thread. There were quite a few changes and .cfg's I had to add to make it work.

Hey MedievalNerd, I had some free time today and tried out your tree. I'm loving it so far - it really adds a whole different element to KSP. Nice work, and thanks to those who helped out with the patches and fixes. I know you said you didn't like planes, but have you ever considered adding a historic element regarding planes as another form of 'science'? If possible, velocity used as a parameter requirement/condition could make for some interesting missions. The realistic jet turbine mod might add enough realism to make stuff like this a considerable challenge. Just to throw some ideas out there: - Transonic data collection. - Bell X-1 type mission to break the sound barrier. Collect data @ > mach 1. - Bell X-2 type mission to reach high-supersonic speeds. Collect data between mach 2-3. - Aerojet General X-8 type mission. Collect data in upper atmosphere ( ~60 km). - X-11/X-12 type missions as test beds for the Atlas. Sub-orbital test flights w/ dummy warhead. - X-15 type mission. Collect data at hypersonic speeds (Mach 5-10). Exceed 80km for kerbalnaught status. - Lockheed X-17 - Coast to 160km Ap, reenter ~mach 15. High-mach reentry testing. - X-20: Similar to Mercury and Gemini, but with the capability of gliding to earth and horizontal landing (like an early space shuttle). - X-30: SSTO - X-43: Hypersonic scramjet platform (assuming we get scramjets at one point) ~Mach 10. - HyperSoar: Mach 12 passenger plane designed to skip off the atmosphere. - U2 type mission : long-duration high-altitude subsonic reconnaissance - A-12/SR-71 type mission: long duration high-altitude supersonic reconnaissance.

The improved city lights alone are worth the download (no RSS cfg required (I think)). They really look great.

Well I tried merging the cfg and I ended up with a black sky. So I did not install RSS folder for the time being. The clouds are a little low on Kerbin (which is my fault), but it does look pretty cool from the highlands Nice job! This is during the afternoon: Nice IFR conditions.

Thanks! I will try that out. Would the Laythe go under the Laythe header as well? The fact that it is indented is throwing me off

Question, are we supposed to manually merge the RSS.cfg included with the RSS.cfg from Real Solar System? If so, 1. Would it look like this? (Copied portion in red at the bottom of the code box) 2. Or would it be included before the final (leftmost) curly bracket? 3. Or would it be added under the existing Kerbin header? 4. Or something else? REALSOLARSYSTEM { // Kerbol 6.4:1 Scale v3 // Kerbol uses our own Sun's radius and density, otherwise it would be kind of silly scaled up. // Jool uses the density of Jupiter but is otherwise unchanged in physical characteristics (aside from upscaling). // Every other body has its density fine-tuned to arrive at the gravity values of the stock game. // Orbital period has been calculated from the orbital values of the bodies and will significantly differ from stock. // Rotational period is calculated using tidal locking values or through some bull****. Kerbin has a 24-hour day. // Any body with an atmosphere has its scale height and maximum altitude increased by 32%. // Flying threshold for science is based on either the max atmospheric height or the radius of the body. // Space threshold for science is based on the body's radius and whether it is a moon of another body. // For the purposes of this file a moon is any body with an SMA < 5,000,000,000m. // PQSMod_VertexHeightMap values are 1.5 times larger in deformity with offsets fudged to make oceans look proper. Sun { Radius = 695500000 Mass = 1.984187307E+030 rotationPeriod = 262906.828 } Moho { Radius = 1600000 Mass = 1.0362999946E+023 rotationPeriod = 440000 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 33684085145.6 period = 3376468.89 } PQS { Moho { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 19.1 heightMapDeformity = 10226.0 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1022 persistence = 0.3 frequency = 120 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 8000 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 2000000 } } Eve { Radius = 4480000 Mass = 5.0252753468E+024 rotationPeriod = 113490.088 atmosphereScaleHeight = 8.74 maxAtmosphereAltitude = 127655.318 atmosphereMultiplier = 5.066 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 62929181081.6 period = 8621915.022 } PQS { Eve { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = -2215.4 // -2815.4 heightMapDeformity = 11289.0 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1410 persistence = 0.31 frequency = 16 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 27700 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 2000000 } } Gilly { Radius = 83200 Mass = 5.0854477285E+018 rotationPeriod = 67236.895 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 201600000 period = 982364.843 } PQS { Gilly { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 995.5 heightMapDeformity = 9600.9 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 860 persistence = 0.46 frequency = 12 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 2000 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 12480 } } Kerbin { Radius = 3840000 Mass = 2.1687475458E+024 rotationPeriod = 86400 atmosphereScaleHeight = 6.6 maxAtmosphereAltitude = 91182.37 atmosphereMultiplier = 1.013 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 87038977638.4 period = 14024787.498 } SSFStart = 78000 SSFEnd = 80000 PQSfadeStart = 80000 PQSfadeEnd = 100000 PQSSecfadeStart = 80000 PQSSecfadeEnd = 100000 PQSdeactivateAltitude = 105000 PQS { Kerbin { PQSCity { KEYname = KSC latitude = -0.0969 longitude = -74.6004 repositionToSphereSurface = true repositionRadiusOffset = 75 //42.7000007629395 lodvisibleRangeMult = 6 } PQSMod_MapDecalTangent { radius = 8500 // KSP: 7500 heightMapDeformity = 75 // was 75 absoluteOffset = 0 absolute = true latitude = -0.0969 longitude = -74.6004 } PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = -1886.4 heightMapDeformity = 10141.5 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1200 persistence = 0.38 frequency = 24 } PQSLandControl { LandClass { landClassName = BaseSnow altitudeRange { startStart = 0.9 //0.60000002384185791 startEnd = 0.98 //0.800000011920929 } } LandClass { landClassName = BaseBeach altitudeRange { endStart = 0.001 //0.004999999888241291 endEnd = 0.004 //0.019999999552965164 } } LandClass { landClassName = RockyGround color = 0.758, 0.628, 0.464, 1 //0.2835821, 0.241034418, 0.169554323, 1 noiseColor = 0.808, 0.678, 0.514, 1 //0.321568638, 0.3019608, 0.274509817, 1 altitudeRange { startStart = 0.85 startEnd = 0.9 } } } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 19800 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 2000000 } } Mun { Radius = 1280000 Mass = 4.0039886626E+022 rotationPeriod = 351604.384 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 76800000 period = 351604.384 } SSFStart = 170000 SSFEnd = 175000 PQSfadeStart = 170000 PQSfadeEnd = 175000 PQSdeactivateAltitude = 180000 PQS { Mun { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = =371.9 heightMapDeformity = 10591.5 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeight // doubles { deformity = 1200 // 400 persistence = 0.6 //0.5 frequency = 6 // 12 } PQSMod_VertexHeightNoiseVertHeight // floats { deformity = 1200 // 400 frequency = 12 // 12 } PQSMod_VoronoiCraters { KEYvoronoiSeed = 462 deformation = 600 //200 //voronoiFrequency = 100 //50 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 6400 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 192000 } } Minmus { Radius = 384000 Mass = 1.0854885297E+021 rotationPeriod = 80399.005 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 300800000 period = 2725393.394 } PQS { Minmus { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 0.0 heightMapDeformity = 8586.9 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 860 persistence = 0.31 frequency = 24 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 2000 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 57600 } } Duna { Radius = 2048000 Mass = 1.8487980356E+023 rotationPeriod = 102385.826 atmosphereScaleHeight = 3.96 maxAtmosphereAltitude = 54709.422 atmosphereMultiplier = 0.203 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 132647393689.6 period = 26386008.601 } PQS { Duna { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 83.0 heightMapDeformity = 12396.5 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1240 persistence = 0.42 frequency = 24 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 11900 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 2000000 } } Ike { Radius = 832000 Mass = 1.1422957777E+022 rotationPeriod = 165831.544 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 20480000 period = 165831.544 } PQS { Ike { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 48.8 heightMapDeformity = 19102.6 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1905 persistence = 0.18 frequency = 36 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 4200 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 124800 } } Dres { Radius = 883200 Mass = 1.3215796333E+022 rotationPeriod = 74619.032 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 261371828499.2 period = 72981667.503 } PQS { Dres { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 16.5 heightMapDeformity = 8504.6 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 850 persistence = 0.54 frequency = 24 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 4400 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 2000000 } } Jool { Radius = 38400000 Mass = 3.1545246352E+026 rotationPeriod = 75894.664 atmosphereScaleHeight = 13.2 maxAtmosphereAltitude = 182364.745 atmosphereMultiplier = 15.199 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 440150786048 period = 159487937.04 } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 39600 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 3840000 } } Laythe { Radius = 3200000 Mass = 1.2051688533E+024 rotationPeriod = 99400.826 atmosphereScaleHeight = 5.28 maxAtmosphereAltitude = 72945.895 atmosphereMultiplier = 0.811 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 173977600 period = 99400.826 } PQS { Laythe { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = -2800.0 heightMapDeformity = 9067.1 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 908 persistence = 0.29 frequency = 24 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 15800 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 480000 } } Vall { Radius = 1920000 Mass = 1.2767523392E+023 rotationPeriod = 198802.272 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 276172800 period = 198802.272 } PQS { Vall { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 0.0 heightMapDeformity = 11983.7 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1198 persistence = 0.35 frequency = 18 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 9600 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 288000 } } Tylo { Radius = 3840000 Mass = 1.7354391957E+024 rotationPeriod = 397608.635 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 438400000 period = 397608.635 } PQS { Tylo { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 0.0 heightMapDeformity = 16923.8 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1692 persistence = 0.42 frequency = 16 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 19200 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 576000 } } Bop { Radius = 416000 Mass = 1.5281975483E+021 rotationPeriod = 1021585.317 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 822400000 period = 1021585.317 } PQS { Bop { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 1335.3 heightMapDeformity = 32632.5 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 1200 persistence = 0.19 frequency = 36 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 2100 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 62400 } } Pol { Radius = 281600 Mass = 4.4346210692E+020 rotationPeriod = 1692117.369 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 1151296000 period = 1692117.369 } PQS { Pol { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = 521.3 heightMapDeformity = 8385 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 850 persistence = 0.41 frequency = 22 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 2000 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 42240 } } Eeloo { Radius = 1344000 Mass = 4.5768479096E+022 rotationPeriod = 55799.642 Orbit { semiMajorAxis = 576760448000 period = 239231753.534 } PQS { Eeloo { PQSMod_VertexHeightMap { heightMapOffset = -587.0 heightMapDeformity = 5810.2 } PQSMod_VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute { deformity = 580 persistence = 0.42 frequency = 24 } } } CelestialBodyScienceParams { flyingAltitudeThreshold = 6700 spaceAltitudeThreshold = 2000000 } } } [COLOR="#FF0000"]{ Kerbin { AtmosphereFromGround { //apply your settings here, like waveLength = 0.85, 0.72, 0.55, 0.5 } } } Laythe { AtmosphereFromGround { //apply your settings here, like waveLength = 0.1, 0.9, 0.8, 0.5 } } } [/COLOR] Nice work btw, this looks really awesome. Can't wait to get it running Thanks

I've taken a little break from KSP. But with all this work on the heightmaps and terrain, I may have to get back into it I keep switching between RSS and stock - I love the design aspects and realism of RSS, but I love exploring the cool terrain on stock. Seems like I might be sticking with RSS once .24 comes out. Nice work SpacedInvader + the usual suspects! Appreciate it.

Now that I am almost at the end of the tech tree in RSS, I thought I would share the progression of my spaceplanes as I moved up the tech tree. Here are four designs, only the last of which is an SSTO: The first is mid-early tech. 4 stages. It is not reentry capable, and was designed to bring surface samples to an orbiting station. The pilot had to wait for a crew capsule before returning to Kerbin. Total payload-to-orbit was around 1.6 tons. The second is mid tech. Two primary stages, all jet equipment jettison-capable. More of a true orbiter shuttle that is capable of reentry and landing. Crew only; payload capacity is very small. The third is mid-late tech. One primary stage, all jet equipment jettison-capable. About half the weight of the prior space plane, as better tech is available. Most of the craft is returned upon landing. The last is future tech, made possible by KSP Interstellar. The first true SSTO - nothing is jettisoned. Large crew and payload capabilities. Hope you enjoyed

Should be between 9,500 and 10,200 m/s, depending on how efficient your launch profile is. Are you using FAR? It will help you get to orbit and is much more realistic. My launch profile is different for each launch vehicle, but this is a basic summary: * Launch @ 90 degrees. * Wait for vertical speed to be around 100 m/s to begin pitch-over into gravity turn. (With higher TWR, you can start earlier, with lower TWR, I like to wait till my vertical speed is higher). * Turn very very slowly. You want to keep the navball on surface mode and make sure you are within a few degrees of alignment with your surface vector to keep your AoA small. Otherwise transverse aerodynamic stress can force your launch vehicle upwards or downwards uncontrollably. * Typically, I will be at 80 degrees until ~ 8000-10000m, and slowly pitch over to around 60 degrees by 25,000m. I like to keep my Ap between 30 and 60 seconds away until I leave the atmosphere, and I use pitch to keep it there rather than throttle. RSS should really not be used with stock. Check out the realism overhaul thread, which has a list of recommended mods for use with RSS. Arguably the most important are the Real Fuels mod, Stretchy tanks, FAR, and Kerbal Joint Reinforcement. The Real Fuels will change the masses to do exactly what you are interested in, and is a more accurate representation of reality than stock. Make sure to instal an engine configuration! This will give you the power you need to really take advantage of RSS without having to build 500 part+ rockets...... Engine configuration information is on the Real Fuels page.

I was wondering if there was a way to maintain the terrain (heightmaps?) from stock? It looks like the terrain was smoothed out so that mountains aren't ridiculously high, but I kinda miss some of the more treacherous terrain on some of the moons (using stock system rescaled) When I am in low orbit, the terrain appears to be stock-like, but once I get close to the surface, it appears to load a different heightmap that makes everything pretty flat. Not sure if this is as simple as editing the .cfg or not so I thought I would ask. Thanks. Edit: So after reading a bit it looks like PQS is responsible for terrain generation. Can playing with these values in the .cfg give more varied and uneven/mountainous terrain? It also looks like only Kerbin and Mun have these settings in the RealSolarSystem.cfg though. Assuming I can play with these values to change the terrain, how would this be applied to other celestial bodies?

You know you play too much KSP when you instinctively reach for the period button on your keyboard to time warp through a boring "when I was your age" phone call with grandpa.

Hey ferram, this newest version rocks. Fixed all my 6m+ woes Thanks for all the hard work.

Before I had a general idea of transit times to the various celestial bodies, I used to keep a satellite in low Kerbin orbit equipped with Mechjeb. I would switch to it, and use the maneuver planner to see how long the trip would take, in addition to when the launch window was. I found this to be a very fast and easy way to determine these variables.

A real SSTO would need a massive maintenance overhaul after each flight. Considering there are no repair shops on Laythe, perhaps you could just be careful enough with your reentries so that you have enough shielding to return to Kerbin for 'maintenance.' Then just recover and launch it again all refurbished. For me that would solve the role-playing element, especially if you landed back on the runway. Doesn't do much to give you a maintenance-free SSTO tho... Sounds like you need an ablative-replacement-from-EVA mod... P.S. You could always simulate a replaceable shield by tweaking the relevant part's configs to raise its maximum temperature or ablative quantity. Kinda hackish tho.

You know I always thought the same thing. And I always used tail fins with FAR. However this last week I tried using zero tail fins on my larger rockets and I found them to be so much more stable, especially under high Q. The only thing is that you must keep AoA very small throughout the entire turn, and mistakes are much less forgiving. Without tail fins, I was actually able to use SAS on a 1000 ton+ rocket for the first time without catastrophic results. Never going back to them! [hijack] P.S. Blackstar, if you haven't tried out the engine igniter mod or Real Fuels, I highly recommend them if you want to change up how you do your launches. The Real Fuels mod changes engines to have limited throttling, with lower stage engines often only able to burn at 100% power. And the igniter mod limits the amount of ignitions you can do. So you are forced to use pitch as the only real means of speed control. [/hijack]

If you are using FAR, it is listed in the flight into popup. I don't think you can stock tho. P.S. Maybe if you click on the nose and watch the drag? I believe it should be proportional to Q, but I could be wrong, and it could be modeled differently in-game. P.P.S. Does stock even tell you drag? Can't recall.

You want to start early, but very slowly. The first 10-20km of my turn rarely is at an attitude less than 60 degrees. Once dynamic pressure drops you can really pitch over. But yeah, if you pitch over too quickly, transverse stress will force your rocket down. It also helps to keep your eye on your vertical speed, and keep it from dropping too low. I try to keep my Ap about a minute away at all times, and vary my pitch to keep it there. Pitch up if it starts dropping, and down if it starts rising. No need to coast to circularization that way, which helps if using the engine ignitor mod. You could also vary thrust instead of pitch, or both.

With FAR installed, (and RSS), when I start my gravity turn is totally dependent on the design of my launch vehicle. With larger and heavier rockets, I tend to start my turn later, especially if it has a high TWR that cannot be throttled back (like when using the Real Fuels mod). Without throttle control, you need to get out of the lower atmosphere as soon as possible before dynamic pressure builds too much. Larger rockets, especially longer ones that don't use asparagus staging, are simply more susceptible to transverse aerodynamic stress. Having too large an AoA (Angle of Attack, which is sometimes confused with attitude) when dynamic pressure is high can easily force my rocket into an uncontrollable downward pitch, or even worse shear it apart. Keeping an almost zero angle of attack while turning would solve this by starting the gravity turn very soon after launch before velocity builds, but I usually want to get out of the lower atmosphere ASAP. With large Saturn V-like launch vehicles, I basically start my pitchover maneuver when dynamic pressure (represented by Q in the FAR flight info) drops below a certain threshhold, rather than by a specific altitude. Depending on the rocket, this can vary from 4000m to 16,000m. This allows me to risk a non-zero AoA before my velocity vector lines up with my pitch without tearing apart my rocket. Usually I wait for Q to be under 8000. In real life, large rockets usually wait to break through Q-max before pitching over and beginning their downrange acceleration, which is one reason they don't begin the gravity turn immediately. (this is what happens if you turn too quickly )Another reason why I don't just start my turn right away to negate the need to manage Q and AoA is because I like to stage my boosters while the vehicle is facing up. Don't like them slamming into me. When you do your gravity turn, keep the NAV ball on surface mode and watch your vector. You want to keep your AoA (deviation from your vector through the atmosphere) as close to zero as possible. It will follow your turn if you do it slowly. Deviate too much and transverse stresses can ruin your day. P.S. When I say I start later, I mean when I pitch over to less than 75-80 degrees attitude. It is always good to start right off the launch pad, but very slowly.

^ The only practical application I can see, other than very limited use, is if the rocket was so heavy that series staging would snap even the strongest of materials due to it's length. That would be quite a heavy rocket.