Gravaar

Fixed it (can only go to font size 7)

Initial design was a standard aerospike pancake and then I thought "What happens if I just bolt on BIGGER boosters" so I had to try it (Jeb made me do it) Summary :- BIGGER boosters are Heavier , staging went from 16 to 6 (not counting the descent stage fuel tanks), drag was way less even when exceeding terminal velocity (Thrust to weight trumps all contenders) TLDR :- Science experiment gone insane

You might want to ask people how many hours of KSP they have played BEFORE putting up a score system and deduct 1 point for each 10 hours they have played (or even a 1 for 1) E.g. I would start with Minus 60 points (closer to - 120 *wink wink*) by my hours on steam there is a vast skill difference between someone who has 20 odd hours with it and someone who has 200 hours KSP doesn't have a learning curve it is more like a learning wall And maybe force experienced people to play hard core mode, no quicksaves or quickloads, and dead is dead

You might need more rules about plane design specs And I forgot to drain the monoprop but the screen shots show I didn't use it

LOL now I find out

MISSION PROFILE 1. Take off 2. DO NOT EXPLODE 3.get rid of useless junk on way to orbit 4.locate Eve and head in that direction 5. leave a way to get home in Eve orbit 6.Land on Eve 7. do science stuff with the dirt and ?water? 8.leave Eve 9.head back to Kerbin 10. try not to crash ................................................................ MISSION REPORT 1.Been there done that END REPORT ................................................................ - weight and part count of the vessel on the Launchpad :- 10187.403 tons and 671 parts - weight and part count awaiting liftoff on Eve :- 681.73 tons and 189 parts - the approximate price tag of your entire mission, if at all possible 4,510,492 - game version :- 0.25 - mods used :- Mechjeb for info and dull piloting (it doesn't handle this ship all that well) Landings required manual control until the last touch down (MJ by itself stuffs it up and wastes to much fuel) - if there's anything that your are especially proud of :- Altering my return plan to use the waste fuel and allow me to do a rocket only landing on Kerbin as well as Eve - Things that went wrong :- Landing on engines only requires VERY flat ground, and trying to drive home with the offset load required at LOT of engine tweaking and that caused a LOT of stuffed up orbit intercepts Almost at sea level but I don't think anyone will complain about 26 meters Sorry about the delay in posting this up I got caught up in fiddling about with spaceplanes and yes this is the same rocket I quizzed you on size with

Landing is easy, Landing without crashing is hard

Not enough force, you need to overcome Eve atmosphere as well as its massive gravity, and drag is a lot WORSE on Eve at sea level so you lose a lot of energy 0 ASL on Eve ( sea level ) requires something like 12,000 m/s Delta-v and an Eve Thrust to weight ratio of about 1.2 to 1.7 or better ( equal to a Kerbin T/W of about 2.5 to 3 ) Anything less than T/w of 1.2 requires even more Delta-v so an Ion plane with a T/w of 0.2 will require a LOT more delta-v as it wastes fuel not climbing straight up, the advantages of LIFT the wings get is offset by the drag as mentioned in previous post's TLDR: EVE SSTO not possible with stock (except by glitching infinityglide, alt-f12 or some other "cheat"). EVE staged rocket more than possible, EVE space plane possible (with staging) but harder than a rocket

The lander and transfer stage are about 1500 tons, the Lander by itself is about 900 tons,I Like to build BIG , Small is to annoying for me, shaving off weight to improve your delta-v and I always build with plenty of safety margins, the lander is capable of landing on rockets only (no chutes or wings etc ) and return to orbit from sea level. At least that's the plan *SMILE* ask Ziv my JOOL 5 challenge was about 26000 tons on the launch pad and got to 80000 meters on the first stage, second stage circularised the orbit

May I slightly bend your rule about not bigger than the circle in the VAB ? I HATE doing multiple launches and docking in space when I don't have to Built this way should be able to do everything off of one launch This is the kerbin launcher with the lander on top, the Eve lander is smaller

Sort of, the atmosphere on Eve extends up to 95 km, at 10,000 meters you are at Kerbin Sea level atmosphere so you use more time in the atmosphere range of your engines

IIRC mine had over 50 I needed to get 1200 tons of dead weight into JOOL SOI

SNIP* That is going to make it SO hard to get 5000 tons into orbit on a single launch Hmmmm... Maybe make a Jool ship that ONLY uses mainsails and/or ion engines Zivs quote is a tiny part of his posting and does NOT say he is going to ban anything http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/57197-The-Ultimate-Jool-5-Challenge-land-Kerbals-on-all-moons-and-return-in-one-big-mission?p=1492777&viewfull=1#post1492777

My LOW MASS ship is built Need to test it first but I know it can make orbit and it should have enough Delta-V to do the rounds It is just under 19 tons I know that is not close to the top contenders but it is a start

Yep 2000 tons sounds just about right to me Might be a little on the light side, you might need MOAR BOOSTERS or Nukes But it is a fun challenge no matter how you do it NOTE: TYLO is an evil place , My not very efficient method was to orbit it at 300 Km and use my tug to kill rotational velocity and let the lander descend straight down by suicide burn, while the tug re-established itself in orbit (I tend to do this on any airless moon). It requires less piloting skill and some of the needed Delta v is taken by the tug but it does waste Delta v for the tug (cancelling orbit then re-establishing orbit)

I just can't do it I tried to make a low mass Jool 5 contender I made a lander that can descend and make it back to orbit on TYLO with ease (6500 Delta v) and weighs 2.5 tons BUT my inner Kerbal keeps just adding MOAR BOOSTERS I guess I don't do tiny

Read rule 3 the closer to sea level on launch the higher it scores

Basically every stage ONLY used its OWN fuel supply until I Parked my FUEL DEPOT in JOOL orbit ( The only times fuel was used from another "stage" was kerbin orbit used some fuel from JOOL transfer stage and Parking my FUEL DEPOT used fuel out of the tug which it then replaced after it was in a parking orbit) then I would just ferry my little tug and the lander back to the depot to refuel and head off to the next moon The "Main ship" in JOOL I call a Fuel Depot because it didn't move again after being placed in orbit And yes the ladder works on TYLO and Lathe, Getting up is easy down requires a slight fall Link to cut down version of Lander and the Fuel depot, Pretty much what you see in picture 5 https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bz_2bEy2buDwSHB4Vk5iVkRXSVE/ Will provide COMPLETE ship if required BE WARNED 2.5 minutes of lift off took an hour of real time My method of madness 1. PANIC then put JEB in charge and all is well 2.Launch 3.dump launch stage 4.dump booster 5.transfer to JOOL and Aero brake 6.Park my FUEL DEPOT in a permanent JOOL circular orbit about 50 Mm out from JOOL. JEB gets out of Lander and ORSON gets in, MATGAS and CALSY get into the LAB 7.TUG plus TYLO specific landing stage leave the FUEL DEPOT and head to TYLO 8.Landed on TYLO , ORSON hopes he can leave 9.Leave TYLO and TYLO lander stage behind 10.Lander docks with TUG and heads back to FUEL DEPOT to refuel 11.Tando gets in the lander and heads to lathe 12 TUG separates from lander and remains in orbit 13.Landed on LATHE, TANDO overjoyed to touch down on solid ground 14.Left lathe dock with TUG for trip back to FUEL DEPOT 15.Refuelled and HANBY gets in the Lander 16.Landed on VALL 17.Leave VALL dock with TUG and you guessed it Back to FUEL Depot to refuel and change pilots again 18.Bob gets in lander and heads of to BOP 19. NOPE nothing to see BOB wonders why he even landed here? 20.BOB leaves BOP gets into orbit and docks with TUG for a fun filled trip to the........FUEL DEPOT 21.BILL gets in the lander and heads off to POL 22.BILL cant be bothered with all that docking and undocking so he just lands the Lander AND TUG as a single ship on POL 23.BILL leaves POL and heads back to FUEL DEPOT 24. JEB Gets in lander secures all the science reconfigures the TUG and lander to carry the hitch-hikers and lab home to Kerbin, FUEL DEPOT remains behind in JOOL orbit 25.Landing on Kerbin requires using the NUKES to assist with slowing down and then dumping them before the parachutes fully open (That's why I NEEDED JEB piloting) 26. HOME safe and sound TLDR: I placed 750 tons of fuel in orbit around JOOL and just kept going back to it to top up my lander, So fuel usage in the depot didn't matter because it never moved again I must have been the only person who didn't care about wasting Delta v because I had SO much to waste *GRIN*

Sounds a bit like a Modders problem not Squads And I know you were just venting but they may have a VERY good reason to change the names, You and I don't know why they did it, But it was a LOT of work for them to do so it has a reason

Here is one for you 2227 m/s over land You should also put a limit on upper atmosphere level 36000 meters is probably best and it eliminates a lot of intake spamming as the drag is worse than the benefits at that range but it is YOUR challenge YOU decide the rules And yes I know that height disqualifies my entry

My simple first entry, will tinker with it and improve its speed 100% Stock, No MODS at all, No Clipping, No stacking of intakes (just a lot of scoops), Didn't break 37,000 meters altitude Final speed 2227 m/s over land

Ahh sorry you weren't specific about what type of strategy you were looking for

Yes I plan to drop an asteroid on it from orbit

+1 rep from me for telling the truth about the kraken drive

Did someone say big? - Which game versions did you use? 24.2 64 bit - What mods did you use, if any? mechjeb only - How many launches was needed to start your mission from Kerbal? ONE !!! - How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where? Heaps but I took my own fuel tank so NONE - Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey? yes 2 hitch-hiker storage - Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc? Fuel Depot - Share the delta-V informations too, if you tracked it! will work it out later Mass on launch pad :- 25978.700 TONS Crew capacity :-11 Crew count :-8 Part count :-1112 Jeb drove there and back Orson done TYLO Tando done LATHE Hanby done VALL Bob done BOP Bill done POL Matgas and Calsy were in the LAB Left in JOOL orbit Fuel Farm with :- LF 12088 units :- OX 14774 units :-MONO 2058 units