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Chapter 5: A trashcan made for 2 At the launch Pad Jeb: last minute checks everyone, I don't want to die in a horrible explosion at 20km up. Richford: Jeb Relax! Jeb: Ill try to relax on top of 20m of explosives, yeah ill do that. Jack: What are you so worried about? the decouplers have been tested 18 different times each in different environments,the fuel pumps are working properly, everything's fine! Jeb: What if the new Lv808 fails and I'm stranded up in space! Bob: Jeb! what have you been drinking! you don't get stranded in space without an orbit and I'm up here with you! Jeb: I know guys, I'm sorry, I guess I'm just paranoid. Bill: Understood. Just let Bob do the important work and you try to relax. Josh: Besides, there is a special gift somewhere in the pod but I wont tell you where it is until you are in space. Jeb: Thanks guys, I'm surprised you're still here ever since my paranoia about this mission set in. 3 minutes later Richard: 5...4...3...2...1... and LIFTOFF of Jebediah and Bob kerman in Sky II Bob: Wow! this padding is really helping! Josh: Thank you. Richard: Everyone else off the line, only mission control can talk to the astronauts. Jeb: This is far better than the first flight! Richard: We took Loads of time and care into Sky II Jeb: Now I realize just how much I was worrying over nothing about! Richard: That's what we're here for! now go out there and become the first Kerbals in space! 3 minutes later Richard: Okay this is the big one, 5,4,3,2,1, VOOOOOOOoooooommm... Richard: That's the engine shutdown, now for the decuopler... Bob: That's one...two...three...four... and activating. BANG! Bob: Lower stage separation complete. Richard: Now activate the LV-808 Bob: Stage 3... stage three, stage three-three-three-three....ah! found it! vum vum vurm vuurm vuuuurm VURRRRMMRMRMM VMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Bob: Engine nominal, check altitude and attitude Richard: Roger that Sky II, altitude at 34500 and rising, attitude... heading at 91 22' 38" at 68 34' 12" above the horizon. Jeb: Now it's coasting to space! Crowd: *cheers* President Ilthorp: and now welcoming the hero of our nation! Jebediah Kerman! Crowd: *cheers* Jeb: Thank you! Thank you! Bob: Just one thing before the party! Jeb: What? Bob: You're muttering in your sleep! *switches view to reality* Jeb: Huh? Bob: You're muttering in your sleep! Richard: Mission control to Sky II Bob: Receiving over. Richard: You two are about to cross into space, altitude 68300 meters and rising. Bob: Lucky timing, Jeb's just woken up! *ksp space music* Bob: What's this track? Richard: That'll be the music we selected based on altitude, well done boys, you're in space! Jeb: FIRST! Josh: Now about that gift, Jeb: yes? Josh: It's hidden underneath the flight instruction manual. Jeb: Over here somewhere... Oh HAH! Bob: What is it.. hahaha! O wow HA! Josh you sneaky little Kerbal! XD Josh: Proud of it mate Richard: What is it? Jeb: This is the bottle of Kermleaf cider i kept as a joke in case we became REALLY High on Kermleaf cigarette, I guess Josh took the meaning of 'high' to a whole new level! Josh: I found it in the junk pile when we were simulating an explosion of the LV-808 and saw the message. Jeb: I am SO the first kerbal to drink this.

lol, yeah, flying is always perfectly safe, its just the ground that is the problem!! UPDATE (sorry for the delay, I borrowed my neighbours internet so I was able to get the update and that's been a tad distracting) Looking at the HunterS and it's sleek streamline design Jeb felt pretty pleased, but he couldn't shake the feeling that something was missing, that maybe he was getting away from what it meant to be truly Kerbal. So for his next mission he went back to a more Kerbalish design. The mission was to take a craft to Duna, one which would be able to glide in the thin atmo. Once the craft was deorbited it would rely just on wing lift to control its descent, no parachutes and its small engine and minimal fuel would only be used for the ascent back to orbit. And so it was that the DunaGlider was brought into existence. The challenge was how to get the glider into orbit, it had a very high lift but no where near enough fuel to ascend to LKO on its own. It needed an ascent stage, but any additional fuel tanks and engines added behind it also required lots of wings to balance the high lift forces exerted by the light-weight glider. After many failed attempts Jeb came up with an ascent stage which while small in terms of the number of fuel tanks, had a massive wing span. The ascent stage had 3 jet engines and 2 aerospikes and as little fuel as possible. It would use up some of the gliders fuel during the rocket stage of the ascent and the glider would then complete its orbit on its own 909 engine, using up most of its remaining fuel. The Glider could take a single pilot, but it also had an on-board computer that would fly it unmanned into orbit. This was the first aircraft to take off without a pilot! With perhaps as much lift as some of the larger craft, but only a fraction of the weight, the glider and ascent stage where practically land-phobic and leapt of the runway moments after the Jet engines fired up. Once into the upper atmo the ascent stage switched to its aerospike engines and pushed the glider into a wide suborbital path. Once in space, on a suborbital path, the ascent stage separated and the glider completed the orbit using its single 909 engine. The ascent stage, also equipped with semi-sentient control computers, would return and attempt a landing. It was not well balanced once separated from the glider so there where concerns that it would not be able to land at all. To that end it was also equipped with parachutes which it turned out were essential. As soon as it hit the thicker atmo is started to spin wildly out of control, never mind trying to land it, it looked like it was about to rip itself to bits. But once the parachutes opened the spinning stopped and it gently floated down to land. Actually gently was perhaps the wrong word because while it did 'land', the main section (engines, fuel tanks and flight computer) now sit, comfortably nestled in a pile of crumpled wings. This component would need some tlc before it could be reused! Now the glider was in orbit the next stage was to bring up a transfer stage that would propel the glider to Duna and bring it (and the crew of course) safely back home. The SSTO transporter was used to take the transfer stage payload up to orbit. Advances in science meant that this payload contained a hazard which had never been seen before, a single Nuclear engine. The transfer stage was able to take two pilots as it was decided that Jeb would need someone to talk to and make sandwiches during the long journey to Duna. Once in orbit it was dropped on a course to rendezvous with the glider and Jeb went back down to land in the transporter. The transfer stage lacked any of its own control systems so it was the systems on-board the glider that would complete the rendezvous and docking process. The gliders docking ports sit some way inside it so the transfer stage has two docking prongs that had to be carefully slid into the glider to make the dock. Finally Jeb and his trusted sandwich maker Bill boarded the HunterS (piloted by a new recruit Matrick). The HunterS carried a different load-out to normal, rather than its 4 standard science seeking missiles, it carried two larger probes which would be docked to the transfer module. One would be used to study Duna's moon while the other would take readings in Duna's upper atmo and do a higher resolution scan of the surface to help identify a landing site for the glider. Once in orbit and rendezvoused with the glider Jeb, Bill and the two probes transferred over. Bill was a little concerned to find that his quarters where right next to the nuclear engine, he was worried that this might effect his sandwiches. The single Nuclear engine started up and the two began what would be the longest ever mission to date. It's low thrust meant the burn time to get an intercept with Duna was over 10 minutes, 10 minutes of wonder and excitement for Jeb, 10 minutes of heart stopping panic for Bill. Within a few hours they passed Minmus's orbit and where now going (boldly) where no Kerbal had gone before. Before long they had left Kerbins influence and entered a Solar orbit. While in a solar orbit they took some readings to pass the time. The journey out to Duna took 65 days (or from Bill perspective 390 sandwiches). On arrival some course corrections where made to put them on a low pass to areobrake into orbit. For the first time they got a glimpse of this alien terrain. Jeb was thrilled to see it but at the same he realised that finding a landing site was going to be a tall order. Once in a stable orbit the two probes where released. The first one would make a couple of passes around Duna's moon, Ike. The first pass would take it within a few km of Ike's surface, then it would swing out in a wide orbit around Duna before coming back around Ike for a high pass and being slung back into a lower Duna orbit, where it would aerobrake and then rendezvous with the transfer module. Meanwhile the 2nd probe would enter Duna's upper atmo and scan for a good landing site (and do some science) Jeb transferred to the cockpit of the Glider, which was a bit of a squeeze as the cockpit was fairly well covered with protective wing panels. During tests on Kerbin he'd found that doing a little dance on top of the cockpit was the key to climbing in, in space it was a little harder but after bumping into it a few times he managed to board. Next the glider separated from the transfer stage where Bill would wait, managing the probes and preparing sandwiches for the return trip. After a very short burn the Glider had lowered its Pe to 2km above the surface, from here until landing it would not use its engine again. Initiallty the descent was very fast, but started to decrease as the atmo got thicker. As Jeb reached the 11km mark the glider began to lift up again and gain alt. Moving at around 800ms, Jeb needed to bleed of some horizontal speed and get closer to the ground. He pitched down and dropped several km before pulling up in a swooping maneuver, bleeding of his speed and returning to a level flight. After a couple more swooping manoeuvres he was down to just 2km above the surface and moving at 200ms. Now in the thicker atmo and moving much slower he was able to bank the glider and change course towards what looked like the most idea landing site. He was now skimming along above the surface maintaining a very gradual descent of just a couple meters per second and gradually reducing speed. He had to maintain enough speed to maintain lift, but at the same time needed to slow down enough to make a safe landing in this ruff terrain. After gliding for around 15 minutes he was now down to under 100ms and just a few meters from the surface. Ideally he wanted to be under 70ms for touchdown so he continued on, keeping his nose pitched up ever so slightly to maintain a level flight. The terrain here was favourable for a touchdown and he'd now reduced his speed to under 60ms. He pitched down ever so gently and the land came up to meet him gradually and in a friendly, totally unthreatening way, Duna was welcoming him in. Wheels down, prepare for landing; TouchDown!! Brakes!! BRAKES!!! The brakes where almost totally ineffective and he had to resort to firing his RCS thrusters to slow down and stop. Finally the craft stopped. Jeb had landed on Duna!! He lowered the craft onto is belly (to make climbing back onto it easier) and got out. The colours stunned him, this was a much more beautiful place than Mun, the horizon looked like it was on fire and Ike was being slowly roasted in it. He leapt off the craft and went round to the back where some of the science gear was located. The other science gear was hidden in the nose of the glider and quite inaccessible from out side. But he had various bit of string labelled with numbers in the cockpit that would pull open the goo and material containers. He'd do that later. For now he was going to go for a walk. Unlike his trips to Mun which where quite short on the ground, he had 10 days to wander about and see this new land. Meanwhile back in orbit Bill was watching the progress of the Ike probe as it approached the night side of Ike. Its path put it at a mere 5km and with the hilly terrain this was low enough that the probes lights could pick the terrain. As it passed its lowest point it ran some experiments before zooming off to enter a wide Duna orbit. (images "enhanced" so they're not just black) Once at its furthest point from Duna it ran some more Goo tests before swinging back around Ike and returning to a low Duna orbit. Meanwhile the second probe adjusted it orbit to rendezvous with Bill in the transfer module. The probes where equipped with transmitters in case it was not possible to collect them again, but the goal was to return them both to Kerbin. A few days later the Ike probe re-entered Duna's orbit and completed its rendezvous with the transfer module. Both probes where back safely, now it was Jebs turn to make a safe return. Before departing he transmitted a crew report back to KSC with the satellite dish housed in the Gliders nose cone and then prepared for take off. The Glider took off with ease and without needing to pitch up too much gained altitude rapidly. After some (not entirely optimal) rendezvous manoeuvres he arrived back at the transfer module and the two craft docked once more. They where all set for the return home but had to wait for a transfer window to open. Finally they where off, the Nuclear engine pushing them away from Duna and making Bill's sandwiches glow with yummy goodness. After another long journey the brave explorers could see their home world once more and prepared to aerobrake into orbit. Now back in LKO it was time to begin the landing procedure. The plan had been for the glider to separate and for Jeb to pilot it back to the runway at KSC. Then either Bill would deorbit the transfer module and parachute to land, or the SSTO transporter could come and collect the module and land with it. However Jeb decided to try something entirely different. Its still not yet known if Bill was in agreement with Jebs new plan, as he is still in hospital being treated for post traumatic stress. Rather than separating the craft they began their decent together. To begin with it maintained a steady heading but as it approached KSC control was lost and the craft started tumbling over and over. The high lift of the glider section fighting against the heavy weight of the transfer module behind it. The crew on the ground look up in horror and watched helplessly as this tumbling ball of fire moved towards them. It seemed that Jebs plan was fatal, but nothing had exploded yet and he still had a confident grin as he pulled the parachute deploy lever. Suddenly the craft levelled out, the drouge chutes now provided the lift in the rear that was needed to balance the craft and Jeb was able to turn it towards KSC. Slowly the craft moved towards KSC at about 10ms forward and 10ms down. Then as they passed over the land and just before the second chutes opened Jeb released the transfer module. As he glided away from it, its second chutes deployed and now it would land on its own. He knew thou that it would be irresponsible to not keep a close eye on it, so he banked around and headed towards it. Finding that the glider was now ultra responsive in Kerbins low atmo Jeb showed off a bit by passing directly under the falling transfer module As he turned around again for another pass he could see the module had touched down. He did a couple of low flybys to check that it had landed intact It looked fine so he turned to head to the runway and land. The glider was a litter resistant to the idea of touching down, but Jeb persuaded it and gently brought it in to land. The only damage to the transfer module was the LV-N had fallen off but that was ok, the science probes where safe, oh and so was Bill. The first ever InterPlanetary mission was complete. The Kerbals had taken their first step into the great beyond and returned safely, well Bill was a nervous wreck, but aside from that, it was a great success. Recovery of the Glider returned 1489 points and the transfer module brought back a further 932. Now it was a matter of desciding how to spend these 2421 points. The tree of science was now getting close to being completely understood. This is the level of understanding after spending the points from this mission; It would still require another 3050 points to complete it. Could this be done with a single mission? And where should the next mission take them? Jeb had much to ponder.....tbc

All the talk of trying to "story away" the lack of genders is just silly - what matters is people's first impression glancing at the characters, which is overwhelmingly that they all appear male, with male names. Kerbals may be aliens, but humans are still humans, and WE are the ones playing the game. Study after study shows that implicit biases strongly impact people's behavior. Explicit biases are ones you know you have, implicit biases are ones that you have, but that you don't think you have (or actually think you have the opposite). These implicit biases are affected, with no conscious control, by images that you see around you, and these changed biases measurably change your behavior. You don't realize that it is happening, which is why they are so insidious. Spend some time playing with the tools at Project Implicit, a Harvard research project that has been running for many years exploring this phenomenon: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/ The point is that by showing only male characters, you aren't making people think "Oh, only boys can do space", because that is an explicit bias. You ARE changing their implicit biases, which impacts their future behavior. By adding different kinds of characters you aren't being "PC" (which means being nice just to make people feel better, but without actually doing anything useful), you are making sure that everyone who plays the game gets the same feeling of personal satisfaction. It isn't about pandering to any political group, it is about using research to make your games more fun and successful for a greater number of people.

Munar Five's trip to the Mun Jeb rocketed skyward once more, this time on the first ever space rescue. He was loving it! Besides, Loddan was fine up there. He had tons of air and power. Not a problem. Heck, Jeb would LOVE to be stranded up on the Mun for a while. Time to explore, to venture out on the regolith, to sweet talk the old girl. "You're looking good Munar Five." Caldin's voice came on the line. "Beautiful launch Jeb." With a jolt the Solid boosters disconnected and fell away and his main engines lit. "Hah, you made a smoke ring Jeb! Booster's last gasp I guess. Cool." "Is it my imagination Caldin, or are you more excitable of late? Can't imagine why?" "OK, OK. So I'm a bit over-enthused that I'm in the final part of the flight course. Come on, I'll be up there with you soon Jeb. Isn't that something?" "Maybe, but you still have to wait on the roster like the rest of us." "Wait? You?" Caldin said, feigning amazement. "Don't be ridiculous! The great and powerful Jeb waits for no Kerbal!" "Oh I'm going to hear no end of jibes from that line aren't I? I hate open channels." Caldin laughed as he watched Jeb soar up on his gravity turn. "Hang in there Loddan." He said quietly. "Help is on the way." *** "Loddan, you hear me good buddy?" "I hear ya Jeb. Just playing a round of golf. Wanna join in?" "Heh, no time bud. I'm in orbit over you now. I'll be de-orbiting in a few minutes. Better make best use of your time on the surface now. Oh, and I'll be coming in hot... just... because. So no guarantees on how close I'll land. Warm up your Flight pack. You'll need it." "Really? Cool. Never tried it out. What's it like in gravity Jeb?" "You'll love it, but I'd stay high. It's a pain flicking the vertical jets every now and then to keep altitude steady and you tend to bob a bit on long flights. Don't worry, you'll do fine." "Try to see if you can land close to him Munar Five." Gene's voice cut in. "I'd prefer that EVA One not try out his RCS skills if it isn't neccessary." "No promises Flight." Jeb said with a chuckle. *** A few minutes later and Jeb was soaring down across the Munar plains towards Loddan's position. "Gear out, lighting engines. Heh, love these things. Really over engineered them. Way too much thrust on these babies. Just the way I like em!" "Just keep your mind on your target Munar Five." Gene said. Jeb came in more vertical than usual, having braked hard on going overhead of Loddan's position. Below the familiar scene of the Alpha site swam into view. He could even make out the faint twinkle of Loddan's craft below against the grey of the surface. "Nearly down Flight. I think I see him. Going to be a little far West of his position. I'm pausing to see if I can shift east a little." He cut engines and did a little repositioning and then relit, pushing his arc east a little. Still not going to be enough and he didn't want to waste too much fuel and be stranded too! "Coming in. Altitude two hundred and dropping." In a smooth arc Jeb swept the familiar ship in and curved towards a crater rim on the other side of the one Loddan was on. With a light bump he was down, less than one and a half kilometers from Loddan's lander. Not bad! "Hey, Loddan! Pick up your IFF transponder. I'm landed west of you. Just a hop skip and an flight pack away. If you don't hurry I'm leaving without ya!" "I don't think so Jeb. I have the cab fare!" Loddan quipped back, but he sounded more relieved than his words gave credit for. Jeb wasn't surprised. This was the first major failure of the program. Not something you wanted to happen on your watch! "Well, get going. I'm waiting!" With a chuckle he heard Loddan's pack fire, lifting him from the ground. He'd be here soon.

Don't have much experience with them so far. But judging from the comments they are not the be all and end all for SSTO Spaceplanes. However they are another great addition to the SSTO Spaceplane builder toolkit. Which is what I was expecting actually - great work Squad! People also seem to talk of RAPIER vs Jet/Rocket combo as being mutually exclusive, when I think there's probably great ways to mix RAPIERS with other engines. Two of them and an LT-N would probably be a good combo. Mebe one LT-N, 2 RAPIER, 2 Turbojet for a larger craft.

They defy physics because they can, dammit! Personally I'd also prefer it to be a two kerbal lander but it's the author's call. Incidentally, wouldn't the realism config balance talk be better suited in the realism mod thread? I'm not sure it's conducive to balancing this module for the stock universe.

All this talk of "root parts embedded in the pad" do me no good: I need craft files and saved games (for the location) as I have never experienced such a problem. Please put them in a report on the tracker (so there isn't a flood of separate reports).

Thanks it actually does. I think I am getting close... I can get the mesh back in game so it is there, but now it is using BOTH modes at the same time... oh you want to talk about overpowered...

I hate to disagree with you, because you do seem to know what you are talking about, but is this not basically the same as load spreading? The usefulness of taking the road with you is that you get stuck less easily, because you are spreading the load across a larger area. It is doing the same as the semi-deflated wheels you talk about, but on an even larger scale. Reducing pressure is the name of the game and that is a useful property when on muddy building sites, or in shot up fields of mud or loose sand trying not to get stuck and become a sitting duck. I find it difficult to divide this into two seperate qualities.

Mission 20 - Duna Overview and Assembly The Duna mission has been in development for a long time with various systems tested in real world missions. It will send 3 kerbals to land on Duna and Ike and bring back science samples and instruments from everything they can touch. The mission itself will involve 2 interplanetary spaceships along with a lander carried along. One is a crew ship with accommodations for a long term flight and powered by a conventional engine. The other ship is nuclear powered so it will only be under thrust when Kerbals are far away. This cargo/support ship will carry fuel for the crew ships return voyage, science instruments and the lander to Duna and back. The crew ship has already been tested in full in Mission 18. It uses a convential engine to carry 3 kerbals and has a command pod, where the crew go for launch and splashdown, and a habitat module for them to live in during the extended flight. The core of the cargo ship is a quite skeletal. A central T800 tank has girders to support 3 surrounding tanks. Those tanks carry nuclear engines and the fuel to run them. The top of those tanks contain mounting points for science pods, which have already undergone testing in previous missions. These outer tanks also house the solar arrays and RCS thrusters away from everything else. The central span has docking points for additional fuel tanks - 3 radially, 1 on top and 1 on the bottom. Other support systems are also present on the central span including monopropellent storage, batteries, lighting, attitude control and flight computer. The core of the cargo ship weighs about 25 tons so it can be lifted with the standard 30t lifter created for the Duna program and used in several previous missions. The cargo ship is deposited with full tanks in a 200km parking orbit to await additional attachments. After the lifter has detached itself it deorbits. Next to launch is a fuel ship. I had created another design for this ship, but with the performance of the 30t lifter (and its ability to ferry cargo right up to a renderous instead of just to orbit) I created a larger version of the fuel ship to carry 3 modules instead of 2. It still falls under the 30t weight limit because it ditches the previous renderous module and instead relies on the lifter for everything but the last 100m or so, which is carried out by a micro tug carried on top. The micro tug is essentially a docking port attached to a round RCS tank with 4 thrusters and guided by a tiny probe core and battery with a single solar panel on the back for trickle charging. It was initially a bit challenging to use the tug (the RCS ports are as far from the center of mass as they could be) but after wasting monopropellent on the first 2 tanks I got the hang of it, piloting it more like an RCS-less docking. I also found that small translations could be done accurately by shutting off SAS, making the translation and then using torque to correct my pitch. The first run put up 3 tanks to go on the radial attachment points. I brought the tug back to the lifter for disposal before realizing the lifter didn't have a port for it to dock to. I disposed of the tug using RCS to deorbit and use thrust to deorbit the lifter. The second run brought up another 3 tanks and it's at this point I should talk about the fuel "plan". The fuel plan was drawn up without much data about aero-capture, so I built in a lot of delta-v for 'capture' scenarios. I also built in a minimum 10% safety on all the requirements. The plan for fuel looked something like this: - Cargo ship burns for Duna, using up the fuel in the 3 T800 tanks on the engines with a safety margin that calls for a little fuel from the other tanks too. - A little over 1.5 drop tanks (1 drop tank is equal to 2 T800 tanks) are depleted to refuel those T800 tanks and the 1 empty drop tank is released in deep space (weight reduced by further 0.6t in advance of capture). - Capture at Duna which burns slightly less fuel but enough to use up what remained so that we finish depleting the second drop tank and deplete a third. We've burned 3 of the 5 drop tanks so far if we keep moving fuel into the T800 tanks - The crew ship flies to Duna, using most of its fuel. It docks with the cargo ship and depletes the last 2 drop tanks to refuel itself for the return journey. - The lander goes to Duna, using up its fuel supply. The center T800 tank is depleted to refuel the lander for the Ike landing, leaving only the fuel in the three engine T800 tanks - The cargo ship discards all the drop tanks and returns using the fuel in the three T800 tanks Since I was bringing up 3 tanks anyway I decided to simply add the extra tank to the cargo ship, it could be safely attached to the tank on the bottom. It would obviously add weight but the fuel would counter the weight addition at the cost of slightly longer burns and the need to transfer some fuel during the first burn. With some more experience I moved two drop tanks at once on the first go (they get stacked on the bottom port so there isn't a reason to seperate them). With what I learned the move goes smoothly. The last tank is attached to the top of the cargo ship and the micro tug is refueled from some tanks on the lifter before returning and docking with the cargo ship. At one point the plan called for using the lander as a tug to move around science modules and tanks but that idea was dropped. The only thing left now is the lander. The lander was tested back in mission 17. To bring it to the cargo ship it will be launched a little bit different. It is attached upside down with a microtug linked to a shroud on the engine. This way the lander can be docked without a pilot (the lander can only be flown manually, to save power and weight it has no computer control). The landers delivery micro tug tops up all the monopropllent tanks on the cargo ship and its own tug before removing the shroud. Now all that is needed to leave is to release the aerodynamic caps from the science modules and burn for Duna when the launch window arrives.

CHAPTER 48 LAYTHE: DAWN *** 28 DAYS AFTER THE LANDING ROZER: Fuel status. LAYTHE LANDER: Fuel level – 41,84%. ROZER: Fuel status of Laythe Ascent Module. LAYTHE LANDER: Fuel level – 86,79%. ROZER: Fuel level required for execution of the ascent protocol, let me see... ascent protocol 156-B2. LAYTHE LANDER: Required fuel level – 87,12%. ROZER: :sigh: LAYTHE LANDER: Warning. Required fuel level above current fuel level of Laythe Ascent Module. Safe ascent impossible. Please change the parameters of the projected ascent path and refuel. ROZER: You don't say. I'm trying to find a solution for this since we landed here, you fraking piece of crap. SID: What's going on, Rozer? ROZER: Well, what do you think is going on? I'm trying to find a way for us to leave this mun with the samples, that's what's going on. In case you didn't notice, that's what I'm doing since we've landed. SID: New ascent protocol? Hmm. But did you- ROZER: Yes, I included the velcro in the calculations. Even if we tore it off from the inside of the LAM it's still not enough. SID: :sigh: Is there anything we may throw away to reduce the weight? ROZER: Well, we already get rid of the chairs and practically every non-essential equipment from the pod. Which means what we're left with are essential parts – solar panels, batteries and so on. Unfortunately we don't have proper tools to get rid of the RCS thrusters too and before you ask, yes I did run several simulations of what would happen if we get rid of the monopropellant completely – it won't help. In fact, we need to carry more or less 5 units of it into the orbit. Even these 2-3 m/s more we could get using the RCS thrusters will help. SID: Crap... This doesn't look good, does it? ROZER: Not at all. I even calculated what would happen if we didn't take oxium, and reduce the life support system to heating-cooling subsystem only. SID: And? ROZER: Well, apart from the fact that we would be dead if we didn't perform rendez-vous several hours after we get in orbit, it's still isn't enough. Besides, these calculations aren't perfect – if we get into a jet stream during ascent it could just easily give us a few meters per second or take them from us, not to mention screwing our trajectory. SID: And what about “Proteus� What about BERTY? ROZER: I'm getting mainly white noise. You were out there with me, Sid – one can practically cut the radiation with a knife in orbit. Few bytes which get through to the Laythe Sat are just a pathetic remnants of our transmissions, so there isn't much to send to “Proteus†for analysis – and that's assuming the satellite is working nominally. SID: You still think there are problems with it? It was hardened against the radiation after all. ROZER: You are the professor, you tell me. How many single-event effect have already occurred? How many glitches its software have encountered? I'm sure it was in a safe mode several times by now. This mun is in the eye of a radiation storm - we could just as well start making smoke signals. Thick atmosphere, interferences, breaking down equipment and I don't even want to mention our laughable transmitter. No, we can't count on BERTY's computing power. We're alone and we have to figure this out by ourselves. And it seems that there is no other option than to leave some samples here – if we want to get in orbit. SID: Leave the samples? But that's why we get here! First samples from Laythe could change everything we know about the- ROZER: I know, Sid. I know. The thing is, we're not getting of this mun if we're going to take everything with us. We've used too much fuel during landing. That's it. One can't argue with the rocket equation – as a scientist, you know this better than me. SID: … ROZER: We still have weeks to figure out something, you know. SID: Yes, of course. I'm thinking about EVA. ROZER: EVA? What about it? SID: Well, four weeks have passed and our adaptation period is over, so we may now perform extravehicular activity. I've been thinking- ROZER: We may perform EVA? You're not going anywhere. SID: No way Rozer, we've been talking about it and there isn't such an option. ROZER: Yes there is. I am the captain and I say you're not going out. You're not strong enough. SID: I've been training the whole time for it! ROZER: You're a scientist and I was in the spec-ops – my organism is stronger. What if you trip over or get a heart attack? It's not a picnic, it's a hard manual labour. SID: What if I trip over? You're the one who broke his arm when we got here! ROZER: Good thing I'm ambidextrous than. I'm not going to argue about it again. SID: But- ROZER: No, Sid. You're too important for the mission to risk stupid accident. SID: That's why you want to get out there? To protect me? ROZER: As a valuable asset- SID: Oh for the love of Kod, stop it! If you die out there, how am I going to get off this mun without a pilot? ROZER: You're smart, you'll figure out something. Enough of this – I'm stronger than you and that's I'm going out today. You'll oversee my EVA and after we get some biomedical data- SID: Okay! Fine, I'll stay this time! ROZER: Good. Order: extend the ladder. LAYTHE LANDER: Affirmative. Extending the ladder. ROZER: But why are you so upset? Is it because you wanted to be the first one? SID: … ROZER: Sid? SID: I've dedicated the last 40 years of my life to Jool and its muns. I've gone millions of kilometers from home to finally land on the only mun with atmosphere and bodies of liquid on its surface. And now I can't even get out... ROZER: You will. You've waited so long, what would few more days change? Or do you really care about being the first one? SID: Don't you? Doesn't everybody care about this? ROZER: To be completely honest, I don't think it matters. SID: Yeah, sure. Being the first kerbal to set a foot on a different world doesn't matter? It's important. Apart from science, obviously – but we're not only the scientists here, we're explorers too. You think it doesn't matter? ROZER: It doesn't. SID: So what does than? ROZER: It's not where you are but what you do that counts – for me, at least. SID: Huh. After sacrificing your entire career to one goal you won't downgrade it so much. ROZER: How do you know I didn't sacrifice it too? LAYTHE LANDER: Ladder extended. Lights on. SID: Why should I know? It's not like you like to talk about you with anyone. ROZER: And there are good reasons for that – we need to stay focused. Now please help me prepare the airlock. The last thing we need is an unexpected decompression. *** ROZER: Okay, initiating final check-up. Order: EVA check-up. LAYTHE LANDER: Affirmative. Suit temperature – 20 °C. External temperature - 4 °C. External pressure – 1 atm. Oxium level – 99,65%. EVE check-up completed. All systems nominal. ROZER: You got that? SID: Yes. Check the dosimeter before you leave. ROZER: Zero milisiverts. Okay, I'm going out of the airlock. Opening the hatch. I think – wow! SID: I see it on the airlock camera. ROZER: Is it normal? This fog- SID: Don't mind it, it's just the atmosphere. On the outside the pressure is bigger, so it's filling the airlock. But the fog... it condensates in contact with the warm air. ROZER: Warm? SID: It's all relative. You should start moving, you're wasting oxium. ROZER: Yes. I'm going out. Uh! Hatch closed, I'm on the ladder. SID: Everything seems fine. ROZER: I'm going down. SID: Rozer? ROZER: I'm on the surface. It's really... muddy. SID: Muddy. Truly inspiring words for the future generations. ROZER: Hmm. Yes, definitely slash. I sink a little with every step but only few centimeters. Walking isn't that hard however. It's dark, I'm turning on the spacesuit light. The atmosphere is dense enough to- SID: Yes? Dense to what? ROZER: … SID: Rozer? ROZER: It's – it's beautiful. SID: What? ROZER: The dawn. ROZER: Uh. I can feel the cold in my feet. SID: You do? Computer, EVA status. LAYTHE LANDER: Affirmative. Suit temperature – 19 °C. External temperature – minus 92,3 °C. External pressure – 0.8 atm. Oxium level – 97,34%. All systems nominal. ROZER: Minus 92 degrees? So why I can feel the cold? SID: It's the atmosphere – on the Mun in the shadow there are lower temperatures but vacuum is a great insulator. Here the atmosphere is sucking heat out of you. ROZER: Copy that. I better take the tools and the experiment. SID: I agree. ROZER: Uh! Damn, it's really heavy. SID: It's 0.8g after all. Are you ready? ROZER: Yes, I'm ready. SID: Okay. It's dark and the surface isn't that stable so you need to make small steps and take it easy. ROZER: Roger. How far should I go to deploy the experiment? SID: 50-60 meters would do. ROZER: I'm going. SID: Uhm, your suit temperature is still slowly dropping. Can you hear the heating system working? ROZER: Sure I can, the fans are rotating like crazy. SID: Oh. And you still can feel the cold working its way through your boots? ROZER: Yes. SID: Ahem. I think one experiment would do this for today than. There may be some problems with the suit heating and cooling system. ROZER: :breathing: Great. So how much time I have before I freeze to death? SID: Two hours? ROZER: :breathing: Damn. The, uhm, slash is a little slippery. SID: Remember, small steps. You don't need to hurry, you've only 40-50 meters left. ROZER: :breathing: SID: ... ROZER: :breathing: SID: So, uhm... Do you want to know what this experiment actually does? ROZER: :breathing: No. But it won't stop you from telling me this. Am I right? SID: Well, you are carrying it so you can just as well- ROZER: :heavy breathing: Just say it. SID: Okay. This experiment is spectrometer-based combustion monitoring device for flame stoichiometry. As you know, we have three more of them and- ROZER: :heavy breathing: Stoichiometry? SID: It's chemistry, branch dedicated to reactants and products in chemical reactions. It will basically use the oxium from the atmosphere to, well, burn it and then it will analyze the products of the oxidation as well as detect all the atmospheric gases. ROZER: :heavy breathing: So basically it's a gas lighting. SID: Well, I guess you can describe it like this... But it's much more sophisticated than this – it's like saying that a space rocket is just a pile of explosives. If successful, these experiments will give us a detailed knowledge about the composition of Laythe's atmosphere. And I hope it will give us the answer for the basic question – why there's oxium here? ROZER: :heavy breathing: Frak. I hope it's 50 meters because if I have to carry it even further I need a break. SID: Uhm, actually I'm getting your spacesuit signal from 56 meters. You may stop. ROZER: :heavy breathing: Good. ROZER: :heavy breathing: Damn it... May I deploy it now? SID: After the check-up. Computer, EVA status. LAYTHE LANDER: Affirmative. Suit temperature – 13 °C. External temperature – minus 92,4 °C. External pressure – 0.8 atm. Oxium level – 91,34%. All systems nominal. SID: Hmm, you're using oxium too fast – but it's nothing, you'll be back before you'll be down to even two thirds. Deploy the experiment, Rozer, but be careful for your arm. ROZER: :breathing: Copy that. ROZER: :breathing: It's deployed and it's working, Sid. SID: Fantastic! And to think it's the first artificial flame on this mun ever. ROZER: :breathing: You're forgetting exhaust flames from the lander. Can you see me? SID: The only source of light out there? Of course I can see you. ROZER: :breathing: Not the only one. SID: I'm getting data from the device! ROZER: :breathing: Good. SID: This is amazing. Rozer, you should start heading back to the lander, spacesuit's temperature is still dropping slowly. ROZER: :breathing: Copy that. Just give me a minute to catch my breath. SID: Rozer? Your spacesuit temperature has dropped to 8 °C . ROZER: I'm going. SID: I'm really worried about it – this shouldn't have happened. I mean, were the spacesuits damaged during the landing? ROZER: It doesn't matter now. We have to fix my spacesuit and hope your is fine. SID: But what if we can't fix them? We need to deploy all the experiments and take samples from various locations. We can't leave without taking the samples from the ocean, for the love of Kod. ROZER: Right now we're not leaving with any samples at all. But we should deal with the problems one at a time. ROZER: I'm at the ladder, I'm going up. SID: Be careful with your arm! And how are you feeling? At 4 °C it must be- ROZER: I'm fine. It would be much worse if it happened during a long EVA, half--hour walk from the lander, don't you think? SID: Well, yes, it could always be worse but... how's this comforting? ROZER: :breathing: If it could be worse and it isn't yet I find that comforting. SID: Yet? ROZER: :breathing: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I'm at the hatch, Sid. SID: Opening. But you always expect the worse to happen, don't you? ROZER: :breathing: I guess I do. Uh! Okay, I'm in. SID: Repressurization started. So where's logic in that? You're preparing for the worst but not hoping for the best? ROZER: Hope is the denial of reality. And reality is all that is – just so. *** MISSION STATUS ***

Another aspect to consider in the equation is that when we talk about water on Mars, it's probably not going to be the clean, pure liquid we commonly think of. Quite possibly it will be polluted with a number of different mineral contaminants that make it quite possible to remain in a liquid form even down to -20c

I will talk about science in a later video. The foam insulation is what's on top of the orange tank, but the texture is not final.

Well, technically, Sol is a main sequence yellow star, so realistically it works either way. Most of it is going to depend the viewer's interpretation of "real" in the first place. Is it based solely on personal observation (which would be a notch for the white fans), or is it based on scientific facts that categorize its color as yellow? And to that point, how can anybody talk about realism when the discussion surrounds a fictional star that's too small to even exist in the real universe anyway? Okay, okay, I admit it: I'm just nit-picking for the sake of discussion. For my part, I think modifications look great, no matter what color they are! Actually, now that I think about it, I wonder if there's a way to change the ambient light color on individual worlds. Sure, Kerbin is earth-like, so the light is white. But what about Laythe or Eve? It might be interesting if other planets with atmospheres also had a slightly different spectrum of visible light within.

K^2, I fail to see how your pessimism is justified. First of all, the 20 km diameter was clearly stated as simply being able to resolve an Earth-sized planet as a "disk" from 50 light-years. "Resolving as a disk" is the common term used when we talk about what resolution is required before a point source first begins to resolve. It is obvious I was talking about simply a fuzzy picture of something just barely larger than a point source. Clearly, if you want a true terrestrial planet imager, you'll need something like on the order of at least 100 km across, and then, you'd only be able to get halfway decent images of the very closest planets. I had almost added that if we could make an interferometer some day with a diameter of 1000 km, we could put the equivalent of 50 pixels across an Earth-like planet 50 light years away, but I cut that part out; I thought it was too much detail and too distant of a proposition. Perhaps I should have left it in to make my meaning more clear? Perhaps I misspoke when I said we can do it with today's technology, but we should be able to do it soon, especially if more funding and study was put into it. I don't see where there are any major show-stopper issues. Perhaps I misspoke because what I really mean, when I think of "today's technology", is that it is something that we either already have, or could immediately begin research and development on, and have ready in a reasonable time span like 10 or 20 years. Clearly, if we directed NASA to build a space interferometer composed of a separately-flying, telescope constellation, we wouldn't be getting in for at least 10 years, probably more like 20- just look how long it took for just the "simple" JWST. But at least, we'd be working on it, and it would be coming. I would assuming that station keeping would be accomplished with something like small electric ion thrusters. You can probably have some small adjustable optical elements to make up for really small, fast perturbations. You can determine the precise distance between the spacecraft with laser interferometry, and it is accurate to the required precision for optical interferometry. How can this not be extended to kilometer+ distances? I would think that the lack of atmosphere, ground vibrations, the ability to smoothly change the distances between the telescopes means space is a far better environment to build an optical interferometer than the ground. I don't see what you find so worrisome about drift. In space, perterbation forces are extremely weak, as opposed to on Earth, where we have wind, Earth quakes, even the minor seismic distrubances caused by people walking around or cars passing by; temperature swings, etc. Space is empty and constant. We have the thruster and MEMS technology to precisely position the telescopes, or there is no reason to think we couldn't develop it. We have laser interferometers capable of measuring extremely precise distances, precise enough for the task. And if by some chance a visible light laser interferometer isn't good enough, why not just use a UV laser interferometer? Where do I go wrong here?

There are a few problems with that which go a bit beyond engineering. First, I agree with the ~20km estimate, but that's just to resolve it as a point. Basically, you'd be able to confirm that it's not a point object, which we already know. If you want to image anything of its features, you'll need a significantly larger effective aperture. Just to say, "Hey, look, clouds" you'll need something like 10x larger size. Of course, if we are doing this with a swarm, it's not really a huge problem. We can build an interferometer thousands of km across. In fact, anything smaller than Earth orbit is kind of pointless. But the larger you go, the more challenging it gets with precision. So lets talk about that. Starting with there not being a terribly good way to build an optical interferometer telescope. It's easy enough in radio astronomy. We just build an array, record the actual time-dependent signal, and use computers to sort out the rest. We can't do that with a signal in optical frequencies. So we have to build an actual interferometer. And again, on ground, it's not impossible. You just have to tune everything, like you said, to nanometer precision. The fact that this is something that's been understood for many decades, and we still only have a couple of arrays that are actually capable of doing something useful, with a few more planned or under construction, should tell you how difficult a task it is. On the ground, where things don't shift around, and we can measure distances with incredible precision. Distance is still a limiting factor. Across a few hundred meters, we can use lasers to measure distances very, very precisely. As distances grow, you start having problems. Not only is it hard to measure distances, but they constantly change. And then we go to the big problem. Space. First of all, holding station with required precision is impossible. Just forget about that. Things are going to move and drift, and you'll have to find a way to deal with that. No mechanical system is going to move with sufficient precision and with little enough vibration to allow this to work. You'll have to measure precise positions of the objects and find non-mechanical ways to adjust distances that beams have to travel. Fortunately, there are electro-optical systems that can work for you, but nearly all of them require polarized light, so you'll have losses there requiring larger mirrors on telescopes. But that's ok, we can deal with that. Measurement, though... Lets start with the fact that GPS can pinpoint your position on the ground to within a few meters. You'll have to do better. Even if we forget about doing this full scale, and try to build a swarm just 200km across somewhere, you'll end up doing 200x better than GPS on timing along. So we went from error in meters, to that in centimeters. Perhaps, millimeters. We are still 4-5 orders of magnitude short. You can do improvements with the right geometry, doing some adjustments, improve timing techniques used for positioning, and you might be able to shave a couple of orders of magnitude off that. But you are still way short. Using interferometry to image exoplanets is a great idea, but we are not going to do this with modern technology. We can't. The only way we'll have chance is if we can do the same thing we do with radio interferometry and do computer processing. And to do that, we need optical computers. When that becomes a standard for computation, we can start talking about ways to build a large space array for imaging exoplanets.

I'm not thrilled with the ambiguity from the Devs, because its human nature to assume the worst when we don't have enough facts to go on. Particularly when dealing with other people, it gives us time to anticipate whatever bad news there is. Now, for what its worth, here's where I'm coming from: I played the demo a few times and liked it (around 0.20/0.21, I forget). After promising myself I wouldn't get hooked, I did my research on the game and saw that they were planning on implementing a resource system, which was a huge selling point for me. It was *the* thing that convinced me to pay for the game. Obviously, there's a risk in paying for future features, but I'm sure many of us have bought games in the confidence that they'll be better in the future. I'm not going to get all melodramatic and talk about the obligations to the paying customer or anything like that. But, when you pay money for software and the developer says that they plan on introducing a feature, and then it starts to really look like they're walking back that plan... it hurts (never mind that it was the feature that sold me on the product in the first place). And the ambiguity hurts more. Again, not to be melodramatic, but this analogy seems very appropriate: Ever been dumped? Hurts, doesn't it? Ever been dumped by someone who just didn't tell you that you've been dumped? Hurts even more. I hope this helps explain why some of us are very upset about this. Of course, the ideal situation would be for the Devs to jump in and say "Hey, guess what? We got it to work, resource mining is coming in 0.23," but I think many of us would be at least satisfied by getting some concrete answers regarding the whole thing. PS, for every person who says that the whole logistical process of extracting and refining resources is boring, many people think the same way about managing apses and docking.

Hey guys. I created a development forum discussion thread to talk about specifics. They might get more notice there.

There are proposals on the table in the real world for refueling probes in-situ on Europa (and probably other places). They talk about reducing launch mass requirements in terms of kilograms, so I assume we're not talking something enormous that requires infrastructure. As far as trivializing fuel use, any resource system that allows refueling will do that; it should be balanced through other means. One possible way to do that is to give the converter or drill part a "durability" that can be replenished/replaced/fixed by an EVA. You could even give larger parts a much greater durability so that the EVA task doesn't become the focus of your resource extraction, and have the tiny parts never able to be repaired (or only repaired once or twice).

Eh, just ignore all the "ram" talk anyway, people on this forum don't generally seem to understand how ram affects performance in a game. It's not a magic bullet that improves framerate. Your cpu is fine, I run a 3570k@ 4.5ghz and the game is nice and snappy, as for overclocking, here's a nice in depth guide. It's not tremendously difficult or dangerous, just follow the guide. http://www.overclock.net/t/1247413/ivy-bridge-overclocking-guide-with-ln2-guide-at-the-end

Funny thing is, though, that whenever someone says resource system, we immediately know that he is referring to ISRU, not Fuel, oxidizer, RCS, etc. When ever we talk about those things, we call them fuel, oxidizer, and rcs fuel, not the resource system, and up to now, there has never been any misunderstandings between anyone on these separate subjects, which never shared the same name. As far as I know, fuel, o2, rcs, an xenon were collectively called fuel, and we referenced electricity to charge or electric charge.

I totally agree, Aramchek. I do NOT want to have to manage air, food, etc. "Simulating all the tedious minutiae of real space flight" is not what I signed on for! JordanL, I think you've hit the nail on the head right here. I would like to know what Squad's vision for a completed game looks like. The main web page for KSP describes the game as "create and manage your own space program". With sandbox being complete, they've nailed down the "create" portion. We know science will be a part of "manage", and there's talk of missions and reputation as well. What is the vision for "manage"? Do they even have this vision yet, or are they still throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks in order to get a vision?

Ok, so the "old" ressource system wasn't fun. Fine, but why scrap it completeley? How about adapting it now that you know whats not fun about it? Even during Kerbalcon there was the talk with the astronout who told you that asteroids are still missing ingame (twink twink). Now, lets find another use for asteroids besides deflecting them from earth....hm...oh...yea...ressources! Either this is a total communication failiure on SQUADS part (=we didn't scrap ressources, just our first implementation) or they really don't see how ressources are what drives space programs (its way too expensive to build everything on earth, famous gravity well problem). p.s. you really have to get better at communication on the internet FAST, you need a certain skill at beeing precise and vague at the same time covering all your bases without talking obvious BS (= we didn't want that anyways, we always planned that anyways). When large groups of ppl start disecting what you say you better cover your ass.

Wow, this thread is old. Would you guys mind checking the dates before you resurrect a thread more than a year old next time? It's okay if you want to talk about it, but it's generally better to just make a new thread. If you feel the need, quote the important parts from the old one. Necromancy is frowned upon in most cultures I'll be locking this, guys.

Don't forget to point both dishes at each other (target the SS-1 to the comms sat, and the comms sat to the SS-1 on the Duna probe), otherwise they can't talk to each other. Mission Control is the only one you can just point at and have it work. If you're low enough (geo-Kerbin Orbit is low enough) then consider using one of the omni-directional antennas for communicating to probes in Low Kerbin Orbit. Putting these on your comm satellites will erase the need to point dishes at Mission Control and each other, so long as the satellites are within range (GKO is under 3Mm, so any antenna but the Comm-16 should work). Then you can use your dishes to point at probes and things. It took me some time to figure it out, too. If this is confusing, just ask. If you have more questions, just ask. Honestly, I don't yet know what the benefit to pointing at a planetary body is. I thought it was intended to target the closest receiving relay around that body, but I haven't seen it work that way. I could be doing it wrong, so don't take my word for it.