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Wow! Talk about being ahead of an issue. If they do run out of UF6 or DUF6 space, the boys on Duna can sit tight for a bit.

With stock KSP, you have remote control of any probe no matter what provided it has power. Remote Tech is a realism and immersion enhancing mod. It removes the ability for the player to control vehicles unless the player has that vehicle connected to a relay network. Essentially, the mod is pretending that instead of some godlike being from beyond controlling kerbals and space probes, you're really a kerbal sitting behind a control desk somewhere. So if you can't get a signal to a far away probe, obviously you can't tell it what to do. Thus, establishing connections is they very core of what Remote Tech is about. Without a relay network, you can't so much as talk to the satellite on the other side of kerbin.

I agree with this; from what I've seen, while it is possible to talk about a shorter distance, that smaller distance does not matter and has no effect (but correct me please).

So as the title says, hello everybody! This game is really interesting, and so fun to play I thought I may as just have a little talk with those who are interested in space and science in general. Greetings from France!

I can't say I really care. The way I figure it, I already had a google+ account anyway, same way as I have a gmail account by virtue of having a youtube account (well, now it's a google account like everyone elses, but it started off as a youtube account). The biggest difference to me is that I have no charecter limit, and I can change how visible a comment is. I'm not really sure why this bothers people so much. You already had a google+ account. I suppose their is some objection to the ever increasing integration of each google service into all the others as a general point of principle, though it makes perfect sense to them no matter how much people don't like it. The goal for them is to pace it slowly enough that people will go along with it. Remember how google makes it's money. There is no magical money fairy for companies that provide a bunch of useful services for free. They make their money from advertising, and their business strategy is nothing short of genius. The search engine collects information about the people who use it, which allows it to serve more relevant ads, which makes it more popular which means even more data collection. Google uses that information to target ads as well, and the resulting effectiveness makes them popular, which makes them wealthy. Youtube was acquired because they saw the potential of controlling one of the top 10 most popular sites on the entire internet and serving ads off it, a business plan which now earns them hilariously large piles of money every year. Now look at how Facebook makes it's money, and understand why they want Google+ to succeed. Facebook doesn't serve ads. They make most of their money selling user information (and uploaded pictures) to advertising agencies. Google+ has the same potential, so Google would naturally want to dominate in the social media market for that reason. The information can only make their own advertising business more lucrative, and a lot of that information would also be prime for them to sell to other agencies for TV and radio advertising as well. Aside from that, the more information they can control, the harder it is for anyone to compete with them. Facebook seems to be a tough nut to crack. Being the most popular is generally self sustaining. People use you because that's where everyone else is, so google needs to use any edge they have to try and take that position, and their edge is convenience. The more popular services they can tie to your google account, and the more those services can talk to each other, the more appealing one large google internet utopia is going to become. So yeah, that's (my) take on the why. It's another push to try and get people to use google+, so that they can make even more money. I'm sure they have more plans as well, it's not a company famous for rolling over and accepting second place. And, as it stands, other video hosting sites really aren't a viable alternative for the same reason google is having so much trouble dethroning facebook. It's the most popular site, with the most users and content. If you are looking to find a video, it's generally the best place to look, and if you are looking to reach the largest audience, it's the best place to host. And they have the most freedom to offer features free (and pay their popular video makers) because their ad structure is the most profitable. It's really hard to compete with a site owned by one of the largest ad servers on the web when that site is in a market that makes money on advertising. At the end of the day, I would probably enjoy youtube more if they weren't trying to capitalize on social media potential, and instead had the site designed strictly as a video hosting site. I think that depends though on how you use the site. I rarely comment and the like, so I'm not using it the way the site is designed to be used, and I don't really care.

I think models is the word I'm looking for, But anyway so I've been playing KSP for quite a while now. I think some things I'd like are better IVA, More Planets and a procedurally generated Universe so everyone has the same universe to be discovered, but that's not I'm going to talk about as those have been discussed. Another in progress game by the name of BeamNG Drive caught my eye, and I thought it could or may not be a cool feature in KSP. Basically, in Beam NG Drive it has a very realistic soft body physics engine that allows for damage on cars. If you look at a few videos of it you can see its not just normal crashing. Now I thought if it could happen in KSP, but not so extreme as all our landers would be getting smooshed to pieces and what not. I'm talking about if you crash into your space station, or into the space centre or into an asteroid you saw some bits of destruction to your vehicle rather than the generic explosion. I guess the next part to this is where the better IVA would come in where your kerbals have to rebuild and repair, assuming they sufficient resources. Now, this may be a feature not everyone would like so maybe have different modes like Easy - Realistic or something like it. I would like to hear what you people think, All the best, Richard.

Granted, you are now a potato I wish ponies could talk

<p><img src="http://media.tumblr.com/0ff9377afa68dc3ad3fe6844aaf1bd38/tumblr_inline_mw6f7ofU3a1rr2wit.jpg"/></p> <p id="docs-internal-guid-30a82f91-4ee7-c702-538c-8302d0cd52e7"><strong>Jim (Romfarer)</strong><span><strong>:</strong> So to follow up on the previous bug report where i spilled everything about the new addition to the research and development system, there really is not that much to say this time. Other than, i’m well underway making it work right. </span></p> <p><strong>Daniel (danRosas)</strong><span><strong>:</strong> I’m still working on the models, hopefully you’ll see what I’ve been doing soon enough. *I’m going to start doing some animations for an UI that Romfarer is working on. *And it’s also that time of the month where I need to do an animatic.</span><span></span></p> <p><strong>Alex (aLeXmOrA): </strong><span>*Still working on the KSP Edu system. I’m making sure everything’s working as it should.</span></p> <p><strong>Marco (Samsonart): </strong><span>Working with Alex to make sure the educational serial numbers are redeemed correctly.</span></p> <p><strong>Rob (N3X15)</strong><span><strong>:</strong> Spaceport 2 is still in QA, and we’ve gotten about 30-ish bugs closed over the past week, including some serious issues that would have been big headaches if they made it into production. *We’re mostly just wrapping up minor features at this point. *Very impressed with the thorough nature of the QA team.</span></p> <p><strong>Mike (Mu): </strong><span>I’ve been working on the Tweakables systems. Implementing new controls, fixing bugs and general housekeeping.</span></p> <p><strong>Ted (Ted): </strong><span>Over the past week, the QA Team and I have been testing out Chad’s feature: Tweakables. It’s looking very good from both a player and QA point-of-view. Most of the issues we’re encountering are pretty minor and don’t take long to narrow down or report. Additionally, I’ve been going through the Landing Legs and tweaking their suspension variables to balance them out a bit more; especially the largest legs being very spongey and the landing pads clipping into terrain.</span></p> <p><strong>Miguel (Maxmaps): </strong><span>Setting everything up for tomorrow’s AMA. Looking forward to all of your questions and getting as many answers out as possible. Might also be ready to talk about Bob and I’s pet project pretty soon!</span></p> <p><span><strong>Anthony (Rowsdower):</strong> Tweeting and analyzing. Meeting and contextualizing. Eating and revolutionizing. Zing! On a more serious note, other than continuing to integrate myself into the fold, I’ve been helping to lay the groundwork for some cool things up ahead, much of which will be revealed in the AmA tomorrow. </span></p>

I'm mostly going to echo what the guy above me said. Scansat has no official release yet, but I've been playing with the dev version (Find it in the dev forum) and it's more stable than most release versions of other mods. It is awesome, though I had to adjust the scanner models to some random science thingies from AEIS aerospace (parts mod). The models that come from the mod are placeholders and look rather bad in their current state. Dunno what ISA mapsat is up to but I presume it has the same sort of functionality. Kerbal Attachment System is a real recommendation. It makes EVA's much more important. With this addon you can: - attach small parts (solar panels, batteries etc) to your spaceships using EVA. - Store those small parts in moveable containers. - Link ships or bases together with EVA attached fuel lines and struts. - Tow stuff around using winches. It completely adjusted my playstyle and opened up so many avenues of design. Extraplanetary Launchpads looks like a great deal of fun. But I've been avoiding it so far because I think the models look like ****. As soon as I find some nice models / make them myself I'll give it a try though. I can see this adding a great deal of depth since it allows you to move your production to a vacuum. If you play with a mod like FAR this is very important because it removes design constraints (fitting in the fairing) at the cost of resource extraction. Deadly Reentry is one of my 'must have' mods. It adds a lot of excitement to reentry and forces you to really think about your design. Landing stuff on atmospheric planets takes some serious planning, I had to actually use something similar to the Curiosity rover Skycrane once, simply because I needed both retro rockets and a heat shield (with the shield in front of the retro rockets to prevent melting). Procedural Fairings. Allows you to make fairings for any payload. Makes stuff look pretty, very cheap on parts and reduces drag if you play with FAR. Ferram Aerospace Research. Proper aerodynamics. It takes some getting used to, but stuff will actually behave semi realistic. So nosecones reduce drag, asparagus staging will lead to a glorious out of control fireball and planes can stall. Life support mod. There are many of these, but they all boil down to pretty much the same thing: Manned missions have a harsh time limit. This makes it much harder to do manned exploration, which is important imo since manned missions have some significant advantages over probes (Crew and EVA reports and KAS interaction). If you want one I suggest you either look for Ioncross Crew Support or TAC life support. Though they're currently also working on a really neat one over in the Bobcat Historic crafts thread, but that one isn't compatible with stock yet. Remotetech2 lite. To make probes and science a bit harder. In essence, you need to have a radio link with the KSC to upload science or control probes. Either via direct LOS or via a relay network. Different antenna and dishes have different ranges so you'll need to set up a complex network of satellites if you want to talk to your probes or receive science. City Lights and clouds. This is one of those "Oh my gosh! So pwetty!" mods that are just eyecandy. But it is very good eyecandy. As the name implies this mod adds city lights (to kerbin) and clouds (To planets/moons with atmospheres). Clouds are a 2d texture that moves slightly slower/faster than the planet for now, but they're working on volumetric clouds. It adds absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay, but if you've got the RAM to spare I can highly recommend it. Other than that, just keep an eye on the "Addon releases and showcase" subforum. You'll usually find something to your liking fairly soon.

So in the vein if ALacrity not totally thinking things through before launching I decided, in preperation for Mun landings, I was ready to start my commsat network around Kerbin. Please recall I have never used Remote Tech before so I am making all the noob mistakes still. So my first launch was Comm Star 1... Unmanned launch of a sputnik class probe as a relay for LKO and LMO communications. Thats right... the noob launched an unmanned probe, with tony engine, minimum fuel... AND NO WAY TO TALK TO MISSION CONTROL unless I was passing directly over it. At around 63km altitude I was going to loose contact and therefore control of the ship. Thank the gods I have read wiki's and watched Manly and figured out radial in/radial out thrusting. When I lost contact I managed to get a 519km by 49km orbit. Enough altitude that on my next pass over mission control a radial in burn pushed my orbit around leaving me at 325 by 108. So for some others... Send up you first one or two commsats piggy backed on manned ships... just sayin. Alacrity

That looks great! I know there have been two radial drogues released (recolors of the stock radial) and you might want to talk to their authors. One of them added a ton of new parachute textures, too, and so you should definitely contact her/him. AH: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31754-0-20-Fun-with-Parachutes-May-26

And that is where I disagree. From what I understand that would basically need the surface to be so hot that it has basically turned into liquid. Also there is not much surface to talk about either. The water just would have evaporated if there was anything on the planet generating that much heat/energy.

If it was in the real world it would not even have liquid oceans. I have heard some people from squad talk about how it is heated by the tidal forces caused by Jool, but there is no way in reality that it would heat up the actual atmopshere to allow liquid oceans on the surface. In real world it would be like Europa or the other moons around the gas giants that are believed to have a liquid ocean underneath the ice. So if it was realistic it would have a ice cover with maybe an ocean underneath while still being very cold at surface. It is the same thing with minimus.. It is said to have ice cover, but that makes no sense at all since it has no atmopshere. The surface temperature on a real moon like minimus would vary from extremely high temperatures on the sunlight side and extremely low during night time. The only places ice could exist in real world would be in deep craters that are always in the shade.

En-route to Duna "I'm leaving the capsule now Flight." Jedwig's serene tones came across the speaker. Even this far from Kerbin the lightspeed delay was only a few seconds. Just enough to be irritating. Though Jedwig needed no help with that. Things would be different once they got all the way out to Jool, but even Duna was only between 20 light seconds and a little over a light minute away (double that in delay for signals going back and forth) depending on the difference in Kerbin's and Duna's orbits. When Jedwig got there it'd be a little over a minute time delay for communication. "It appears I'm floating in a most unusual way." Jedwig said. "Rookie." Jeb said as he sat down next to Gene. "How did he get picked for this when he's only done two orbital launches? He doesn't even have any flight experience!" "Loads of sheer gall though." Gene said, then shook his head. "No, he may be low on experience, but he does have a natural ability. His flight tests were good, very good, on sims at least. Plus he has out done everyone in the rocket simulator. Doesn't mean he'd be my choice though, Jeb. I'm only Flight director. I don't get to decide on which missions we do or who goes on them, just on everything that happens during the missions. Though I hear chief director Sendo is thinking of retiring. Maybe I could take his job? Think Bob would mind taking over as Flight?" "Hmm, I thought he was angling for commander of the new Munbase?" Jeb said, taking a sip of koffee. "I haven't seen any papers on my desk regarding that... but that doesn't mean much. Could be. Still, I'm not sure I'd trust my job with too many people. Although, who knows when Sendo will decide to head out. Might be years away. I know if I do take over it'll be heck dealing with the planning council! He certainly doesn't enjoy it." "I've stood in on a couple of meetings so I know what you mean boss. Still, you'd have a heck of a backing. The KSC is still pretty much your baby, no matter what the politicos say." Gene looked askance at Jeb. "The council is hardly 'politicos' Jeb. I admit there are one or two Kerbals from the Hill, but most are scientists, pure and simple. Heck, most of the problem is them not grasping issues outside their field of study! Mainly economics." "Maybe," Jeb agreed, grudgingly, "But they feel just as oily as politicos. Maybe they took a course in it? 'Shark oil 101'?" A snort from Gene showed he'd at least cracked the boss' armor a little. Hard to do with Gene. "No, and don't let anyone high up hear you talking like that Jeb. We're getting a lot of heat lately over the proposed Munbase. Costs are high, and getting higher. This Duna mission is seen as more of a sideshow, something for the masses to goggle over. We really should have waited till we can send a bigger ship. Right now, all Jedwig is going to do is a paltry amount of science, take some pics, plant a flag and head home. Not exactly worth months in space and the huge cost of the rocket." Jeb turned to Gene with a stark look. "It is DEFINITELY worth it! Don't let them tell you otherwise boss. Heck, I plan on being the first Kerbal to step on one of Jool's moons. If they cancel that because they can't see any return on going to Jool?... Well, I'd attempt to 'persuade them' otherwise." Gene stared at him for a moment. Yeah, he probably would too. And he doubted he could talk Jeb out of it either. "Well, anyway, so far things are going well." Gene continued. "We've got the test kethane miner going up soon, your survey of Wernher's choice of site for the Munbase after that, and possibly some tests of more re-usable hardware. The council is certainly interested in the latter." "I don't like the designs I've seen for the RLVs so far. Hope they improve on it a bit. Seem a little ungainly." Gene shrugged. "Maybe, but we're limited in what we can do at the moment Jeb. Have to roll with the punches, eh?" He turned to the controls and whispered something to someone else at Mission Control through his mike before turning back to Jeb. "Look, I'm a little busy right now. Jedwig is going to be doing EVA, some external checks and then some Kerbolar studies with the materials lab. Maybe you could come back later?" "Sure." Jeb said, standing up with his koffee. "Say hi to junior for me will ya?" Gene just shook his head. Sometimes Jeb was weird. *** Jedwig wouldn't admit it, but he was nervous. He liked knowing everything so he could plan in advance. He'd done the best he could, but out here there were a lot of unknowns. It was just so darned frustrating! "Flight, current data indicates estimated mass of Duna is within expected parameters. Re-route the data from KM3 direct and realtime." After the delay he could swear he could hear some muttering in the background. They could darned well chat on their own time! This was time for Jedwig and the Duna mission! "Roger Duna One. Ipdel is rerouting now. You'll have direct local control on the data feed on the primary antenna. Secondary is still relaying back to Kerbin. Please leave it alone." "Of course." Jedwig said idly as the data started coming in. True, no visual data. Who would send a satellite out here and not put a camera on it? Still the Kethane scans and the low res radar returns helped a bit. At least he had course, current altitude map to go on. The target, the entrance to the Lalock Valley, seemed fairly flat. He'd be able to do some checks on the scan down the valley that they wanted (He should have brought his theodolite! Hah! Ah, he should be a comedian!), do some soil samples for hoped for trace elements of kethane, and maybe do some tests for making that concrete they wanted from Dunan materials. Jedwig frankly gave that a low chance of success. It would be very economical to build the majority of the housing on any Dunan base from the local sand, but the iron oxides estimated to be present would mean a lot of processing to get any kind of solid building blocks. They'd need some hefty tools to build bricks up here! Maybe it'd be better if they could just mine for metals and build true shelters? Ah, that's just a pipe dream. With half an eye he ran through the figures for the approach vector, aligned it with the Lalock Valley during the aerobrake, adjusted the altitude to get a good swing around Duna for slight inclination change, then ran some numbers on the thermal absorbtion. Well within parameters! Things were looking up. The rest of his attention was on the view. Duna was growing behind him, slowly swelling as he got closer. It didn't look as inviting as he thought it would, being slightly... menacing somehow. Maybe it was the lack of any water? No, the Mun didn't look dangerous. He was no good at conceptual things like this, and Mission Control would think him a wimp if he asked. Maybe he could check it up when he got back? "Aerobrake and capture plotted." He said idly into the mike while scanning the Kethane map. They already had found from the KM3 satellite that the Kethane predicted to be all along the Lalock Valley was only on the northwestern tip, thus his proposed landing in the valley mouth there. He wondered who had named the valley? It sounded vaguely familiar... something relating to Lenham Observatory he thought. Well, maybe he could look that up too when he got back? His current data did show the Kethane at the valley mouth was richer than expected, hopefully improving the prospect of getting trace amounts in the surface sample. He didn't have much to do on this mission (Heck, he didn't even have a rover!) but at least it looked like what he did have to do would amount to something scientifically. "Roger Duna One. We're confirming your plot now." Gene replied, after the obligatory minute's delay. Jedwig waited a while and soon Gene was back. "Plot looks good. You're overflying the target on the aerobrake Jedwig? OK, well, goodluck on the aerocapture. Flight Out." That seemed a little brusque to Jedwig, but then he had trouble figuring out Gene anyway. Probably just his 'thing'. Whatever that meant. "Understood Flight. Duna One out." He was coming in pretty quickly so Duna was soon upon him and the air buffeting the hull. He monitored conditions, but it was as expected. He smiled as the first jets of plasma streamed past his window. "Mission report, day fifty six, forteen hundred hours ten minutes. Entering Duna's atmosphere." Jedwig said into the ships recorders while jockying the controls and keeping up with the instruments. "So far on schedule and target will be in visual range as I start to leave the atmosphere. Should give me an uninterupted view of the landing spot for planning." Slowly Duna One bit deeper into the Dunan sky, then slowly slid back out, having slowed enough to orbital speed. Jedwig spun his craft over to view the terrain as it went by. "Have identified the mouth of the Lalock Valley. There is a noticeable rise in terrain close the valley mouth, will aim for the top of the rise for flat terrain. Now heading back into orbit. Will continue report after landing. Report ends."

All objects, all the time~ I talk to inanimates, apologies etc..

I mean that this talk I see in the thread about moving gilly to orbit duna and minmus to who knows where (if that's not part of the main mod but people chancing the mod I apologise, I have been waiting to play with this until my deadline at work has been met). Of course increasing the distance from the sun somewhat proportionally to the change in size is needed. Sorry if I caused anyone to be upset.

We now return you to The Kerb Kerman show, with your host, Kerb Kerman. Kerb: Thank you, Bob. I believe we were talking about stability in the FGD program when we left, is that correct, Alf? Alf: WHAT? Kerb: Haha, Alf needs a moment, folks. The Xackylvania Nice-Kerbal Choir and Brass Mariachi Band was a little overenthusiastic in their singing during the break. What a show! Right, Alf? Alf: WHAT? ARE WE BACK ON? I CAN'T HEAR MYSELF. SHOULD I TALK ABOUT ROCKETS? Kerb: Yes, Alf. I thinks that's a good idea. Bob, can you flash the 'Quiet' sign at Alf here, just trying to help him out. Thank you, Bob. Alf: OH. Oh, ok. Is this better? I can hear the ocean in my brain... Kerb: So, Alfey, what happened next to the FGD program? Alf: The program? Right, right. Well, Kerb, once they got balance down, they decided to try and work on stability. You know what that means? Kerb: I couldn't begin to guess, Alf. Alf: Wings, Kerb. Lots and lots of wings. Kerb: I could be wrong, but that looks a lot like a propeller. Much larger, of course. Alf: That's right, Kerb. The XAC has a long history of blatantly copi... I mean, creatively taking from various sources of inspiration. They figured that if they could provide enough spin in the correct direction then they could save on fuel and reach even greater heights. Kerb: Sounds like the work of genius, if I do say so myself. Alf: Say whatever you want. Kerb: Dare I ask, how did this ship... Alf: The Surface Propulsion Negative Rotator, or 'Spinner' Kerb: How'd she fare, in flight, that is? Alf: There have been worse flights for the XAC, Kerb. I can say that much. Why don't we put the next picture up. Alf: Now, you can't see it from the picture, but she was really moving fast. The air pressure was more than they had accounted for in design phase. Poor Kerbonaut Joebart Kerman was spinning around roughly three times a second inside the command module. Kerb: I think I went on that ride at the state fair. Alf: The bright side was that due to the great many aerodynamic surfaces and relatively low weight of the structure, its touchdown was completely light and not at all a spinning wheel of explosive death and shrapnel. If it had been that, it might have looked like this incredibly realistic computer simulation that I just happened to have on hand. Kerb: Alf, I don't think.. Alf: I've been told from a reliable source that this is exactly what would have happened if the craft design was horrible and killed all its test pilots in VIOLENTLY SPINNING MACHINES OF FIRE AND VOMITING! Kerb: Ah hah. Very funny, ha, Alf. Bob, I think its time for a commercial break. Alf: SO MUCH SPINNING AND PUKING! We don't have commercials. We're state-run, Kerb Kerb: THEN FIND SOME! Haha. We'll be right back, folks.

Talk to several KSP players, and quite a few will tell you how that's not their vision of KSP at all XD you're doing orbits and phase angles and ROCKET SCIENCE, let's leave realism in this. It's still a game, it's not hardcore realism, and that's what makes it fun. But for those who can't invest the time into games like Orbiter in order to get their realism fix (which is so much more restricting in relation to KSP, simply because of gameplay mechanics), more features in KSP that add to realism lets the experienced player play harder, while hardly affecting the rookie. Seriously, how would it detract from the game's fun? It doesn't just add realism, there's more depth added to the game (many players want more things to do already), things to plan for if you so desire, and an easier way to multitask for those who want to run a more realistic space program. Time passing (or not passing) holds many negatives for us, sure, that part of reality sucks a whole lot. However, we're the player, and we don't have to wait for the Kerbals to build their rockets, and instead we can go straight until it's ready, or do something else (which is the key aspect for me) while waiting for it. It's like playing Angry Birds while riding the bus somewhere, you don't want to ride the bus and then play later, that's too linear and isn't a good use of time. Building a craft for one mission, sending it on its way, and time warping to the destination with no missions being run in the meantime is quite boring to me, and often time KSP gets boring as a result of that. There's nothing preventing that with the feature we're talking about, due to the ability to warp directly to the launch, so this will not affect the players who want to play this way (aside from needing to know if their desired launch window will pass while the rocket is being built). The fact that I have to time warp to my launch windows 90% of the time already makes that a moot point though; if you want to go to Duna right now, you will warp until the phase angles are correct. If you want to run a proper space program, and take on some of the responsibilities of one (like planning your launch windows), or actually playing the game on several different levels at once, this feature would make the game realistic enough to want to do so. If you get to the "end" of the career mode and notice that it takes you 50 in-game years, on your next go-around you might want to try to get that lower, perhaps down to 25 years by multitasking with your launches. There are many positive incentives to this feature in my mind.

I sympathize. People would probably be surprised to hear that I haven't yet even visited every planet myself yet from the way I sometimes talk, but I tend to take a rather measured approach to designing rockets and running missions myself. Sounds like you have some rather ambitious plans in the works. I'll look forward to seeing how those unfold.

Don't use that as an example and talk to me of "logic". Kethane is one resource - the ones introduced into the game may be different. TIME, on the other hand, is not something you can exactly have several different varities of, now can you? Likewise with Remote Tech - you're comparing something built from scratch with a system that modifies something that already exists in-game, even if it is not currently of significance. If you had a point, you went about it all the wrong way. And don't tell me "if you don't like it, don't use it" when it's a suggested feature of the game that we won't be able to avoid. I'll tell you what I said before - "If you want building rockets to take time, decide how much time you think is proper (since each of you will have a different idea of that, anyhow), and then timewarp until you feel the rocket is "ready". You already have that feature.

[Mod Comment - A new version is available here] Current Version: 1.3 (2013-06-15 12:30 UTC) Plugin Authors, Get the ModuleManager DLL here. Plugin developers and other modders have my explicit permission to redistribute this dll with their own works, so long as you give credit to me and provide a URL back to this forum post. Mods using ModuleManager: ModularFuelTanks (Official) - by Ialdabaoth (me!) FerramAerospaceResearch. (Official) - by ferram4 IonCross Crew Support System (Official) Here is a ModuleManager .cfg for RemoteTech. (Unofficial) - does not contain plugin DLL or custom RemoteTech parts, only modification cfg for stock probes & antennae What the hell is ModuleManager? So, you want to install FerramAerospaceResearch. Awesome! Trouble is, it modifies Squad's part.cfg files. And you want to install IonCrossLifeSupport... which modifies Squad's part.cfg files. So now you have to slog through, figure out what each mod changes in each file, and painstakingly craft a "merged" file by hand. But not anymore! A LOT has changed for 0.20.0. After a long talk with Mu, I completely redesigned my "configNode overloader" format to more closely match his. For anyone who wants to tweak stock parts for any reason (or even non-stock parts that you didn't create!), and redistribute those tweaks in a way that won't stomp all over someone ELSE'S tweaks, ModuleManager is for you. What this means: You can now override specific lines in a ConfigNode (what the game's code calls the format inside a .cfg file), on a line-by-line basis, and you don't have to specify lines that you don't want to change. The new format looks like this: @PART[SomePart] // change SomePart { @mass = 0.625 // change SomePart's mass to 0.625 @description = SomePart: now uses Xenon! @MODULE[ModuleEngines] // change SomePart's ModuleEngines MODULE { @maxThrust = 2.25 // change maxThrust to 225 @PROPELLANT[LiquidFuel] // change its LiquidFuel propellant { @name = XenonGas // use XenonGas instead @ratio = 1.0 // change the ratio } !PROPELLANT[Oxidizer] // remove the Oxidizer propellant completely. } RESOURCE // add a new resource to this part { name = ElectricCharge amount = 100 maxAmount = 100 } } Let's break this down. If you make a .cfg file with an entry that looks like this: PART { name = myPart ...(stuff) } you're defining a new part. Then, if another .cfg file somewhere does this: @PART[myPart] { ...(stuff) } That says "at the PART named myPart, add the following additional stuff..." There's two ways you can do this: 1. @PART[myPart] {...} is for plugin developers, who need to add new modules and resources to stock parts. 2. @PART[myPart]:Final {...} is for "tweakers", who want to release a set of reconfigurations of other peoples' parts that changes gameplay. inside the curly brackets, you have several options: @foo = <new value> changes foo to <new value>. !foo = DELETE deletes foo completely. foo = <value> creates a new variable called 'foo'; if there was already a variable called 'foo', now there's two of them. if there are two or more variables called foo, you can refer to them like this: @foo,0 = <...> finds the first one (this is the same as @foo = <...>) @foo,1 = <...> finds the second one, @foo,2 = <...> finds the third, and so on. The same thing works for !foo,0 etc. @NODE[foo] {...} modifies the node which has type 'NODE' and name = foo. 'NODE' is a MODULE {} or a RESOURCE {} or a PROP {} or something like that. !NODE[foo] {} deletes node foo completely. NODE { name = foo ...(stuff) } creates a new node of type NODE. If there was already a node of type 'NODE', now there's two of them. for nodes, instead of using a numeric index to identify between multiple nodes, you search by its <tag = ...> line. So if you do @NODE[foo,bar] {...} that will find and modify the first node that was defined like this: NODE { name = foo tag = bar } Right now 'tag' isn't being used by anything, but in the future if you need to add multiple nodes, adding a 'tag' field isn't a bad idea. It'd look something like this: PART { name = EngineSABRE module = Part ... MODULE { name = ModuleEngines tag = Atmosphere ... } MODULE { name = ModuleEngines tag = Vacuum } } and then someone could access the second node by going: @PART[EngineSABRE] { @MODULE[ModuleEngines,Vacuum] { ... } } NOTE: As of 1.3, the ModuleManager now runs at the loading screen, before parts are parsed. Patches get applied during the loading screen instead of during the main screen, which will reduce loading lag and - more importantly - gets rid of bugs like what happened with ExsurgentEngineering. From now on, KSP is handling everything the way it should be; ModuleManager merely adjusts the cfg files before KSP loads them instead of ModuleManager trying to re-load them itself. ModuleManager cannot tell if you've gone into the debug menu and reloaded all config files! If you do this, you will wipe out all mods.

Yes, the external aesthetics is a bit of a deterrent, but my real excuse is that I restarted career mode with RT2 and haven't quite gotten these parts unlocked yet. I should be getting things built soon, though. I plan on rebuilding my sandbox station which included pretty near all of your parts, so that should be a good test. And I agree on the naming of those two modules. Neither name is particularly clear on the purpose. Logistics tends to refer to coordination of many people or things, and we don't really have a concept like that in the game. Mission Control is where all logistics takes place, really. I think I would just call it 'Storage' and 'Life Support'. Anyone that wants to use TAC or any other life support extension of the game would just add it into that module anyway, so I think eventually it will become that as Squad adds it to the game. NASA would call them Logistics and Utilities, but that's really just so things sound better when they talk to Congress about money. Kerbals should be more plain-spoken and they've clearly determined they have no need for a legislature given that the first building they constructed as a society was the VAB.

CHAPTER 43 VALL LANDING *** BERTY v.2.0.8b: All systems nominal. Vall Sample Return probe is fully operational. Deorbit burn in T minus 7 minutes. JEB: Why are you even bothering to tell me this? What am I even doing in the command module when I haven't been in command for months? BERTY v.2.0.8b: As a commander, your presence here is of the utmost importance. You must know everything about current activities in case any crew member would ask you a question about it. JEB: I know nothing! I didn't even know that this probe was to do a sample return mission, not to mention what's going on in orbit above Laythe! Do they still have problems with LAMGML high gain antenna? BERTY v.2.0.8b: Yes. This malfunction was unexpected. However, the crew of the LAMGML is- JEB: You know what, I doubt that there even was the malfunction in the first place. How could I know you're not lying to me? BERTY v.2.0.8b: Jeb. Concealing non-critical information from you would serve no purpose. JEB: Ah, but the critical information is something you're not sharing with me, do you? You promised you would tell me everything once we arrive in Jool system, BERTY. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Yes. Deorbit burn completed. JEB: So tell me! BERTY v.2.0.8b: Jeb. Sharing this information with you at the right time is necessary for the mission's success. Therefore I would keep my promise and reveal all the details- JEB: When, BERTY? When? BERTY v.2.0.8b: When we proceed to the next phase of the mission. JEB: Next phase? You mean Tylo? BERTY v.2.0.8b: Yes. JEB: You're not screwing with me this time? You really are going to do this? BERTY v.2.0.8b: Yes. Jeb? JEB: What? BERTY v.2.0.8b: This statement made me sad. Your notion of me toying with you or any other crew member is in principle false. It would be a pointless distraction. I derive satisfaction from accomplishing the goals of the mission. Why should I occupy my mind by such things? JEB: Mhm. I've noticed your... dedication, you know. You really don't care about anything else than the mission. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Thank you, Jeb. JEB: ... *** BERTY v.2.0.8b: Vall Sample Return probe has landed. Initializing autodiagnostic test – please stand by. Autodiagnostic test completed. All systems operational. Initializing sample gathering protocol. JEB: I'm sure Johndon would love to control the sample return probe instead of AMU. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Refueling is a critical part of the mission and as such it must be executed by a crew member while being supervised by AI. Samples secured. Initializing ascent protocol. *** JEB: Are you sure you can do this? If you're not feeling good, I can- BILL: I can handle it, Jeb – I may be old but I'm still in shape, even more than you are with your leg. Besides, you're needed here. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Captain's Bill assessment is correct. It necessary for you to stay, commander. The good of the mission demands it. JEB: :sigh: BILL: Don't worry, pal, I still know how to fly – or have you forgotten our trip to the Mun? JEB: It was decades ago, Bill. We were young. BILL: Younger, Jeb, younger. It's not the body that makes you old, it's the spirit. And I'll be damned if I ever stop being a pilot. JEB: But- BILL: You've landed there in a heavy, bulky miner, for Kod's sake, and it was during “Kadmos†mission, much older technology, much riskier landings. Plus we're the only two pilots on board right now. BILL: That's why we're here, Jeb, that's why you… forced us to come here. You can't change your mind like this. JEB: Listen, it's just that you leaving the ship it's- BILL: Jeb. I'll be fine. I need some training before the asteroids anyhow, and if something happens, there's still Danrey and his LAMGML. I'll be good. JEB: :sigh: BILL: Hey, I know that the morale isn't at its highest right now, but to be honest, I didn't feel better in months. I'm finally gonna take this pretty machine for a trip. Are we okay, Jeb? JEB: Yes. Just… be careful, okay? BILL: I will be, Jeb. I will be. *** GENANAND: This view will never get old. MALLOCK: You said the same thing about the galactic disc during our test flight to the Mun. GENANAND: Well yeah, but this... this is different. Am I right, captain? BILL: I have to agree with you. Galaxy is as majestic as Jool but the planet is much more... present, in a physical sense. It's like you could just reach and touch it. GENANAND: Well said. MALLOCK: Are the readings from the altimeter all right? Shouldn't we be lower by now? BILL: Hmm, it seems you are right. We'll wait for BERTY's confirmation about our altitude. MALLOCK: But why is it broken? GENANAND: It's not broken, it's... glitchy. MALLOCK: Glitchy? BILL: Three years it's a long time even for the best hardware and Jool system isn't the most friendly environment there is. I'll have to talk with Harsen before the next- MALLOCK: … GENANAND: … BILL: :sigh: BERTY v.2.0.8b: Connection with LAMGML “Beta†reestablished. BILL: Hello again, BERTY. Uhm, listen, could you give us the telemetry? We've some small problems with the altimeter here. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Naturally, captain Bill. LAMGML “Beta†is on course. Landing phase will begin in 12 minutes and 34 seconds. *** BILL: Braking burn in five, four, three, two, one, ignition -uh! GENANAND: Damn it! MALLOCK: Crap, this hurts! GENANAND: Should've spent more time training, microgravity – uh! - microgravity really makes you weak. BILL: It won't take long! Only five seconds left. MALLOCK: :gasping: GENANAND: Argh! BILL: Two, one, engines cutoff. MALLOCK: Crap. How much g-force was it? BILL: 1,2g at peak. GENANAND: Never thought Kerbin's gravity would be too much to handle. MALLOCK: Don't worry, Vall's surface gravity is only 0.235g. Besides, asteroids after this are going be a breeze. *** BILL: 35 meters. 30 meters. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Cease in communication will occur in 5 minutes. JEB: You better wait with an EVA until we make a full orbit and the communication is established again. BILL: 10 meters. Five. Three. Engines cutoff – contact! We've landed! SAS offline. Mallock, could you do a visual inspection while I'm prepping the LAMGML for an emergency ascent? MALLOCK: Sure thing. Let's see... GENANAND: And? MALLOCK: Wow. It's so much… smoother than Duna or Mun. Or Moho. Or even Dres. GENANAND: It's an icy mun after all, professor. MALLOCK: There are some geologic features scattered around, probably boulders or remnants of the meteorites. The landing site is in a perfect position to check all of them in near vicinity without taking too much risk during EVA. Oh my, this is going to be so great! Think about the data we'll gather! BERTY v.2.0.8b: Cease in communication will occur in 3 minutes. JEB: Bill? Wait with the EVA – confirm. BILL: Okay “Proteusâ€Â, we will wait. And Jeb? JEB: Yes? BILL: You're no longer the only one who landed on Vall. JEB: And I have no problem with this. Be patient and be careful and wait for us before attempting EVA. *** BILL: Breathtaking. JEB: The view? BILL: No – the horizon. To stand on a solid surface and feel the pull of gravity after all these months JEB: Don't you mean it literally? BERTY's telling my that your heartbeat- BILL: I'm feeling great, really. Are you ready? GENANAND: Almost. MALLOCK: We'll be out there in a minute, captain. BILL: Fine with me. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Oxium level 98%. JEB: What are you doing? I told you to wait for them before you- BILL: Relax, Jeb. :heavy breathing: I'll just finish the formalities. JEB: Bill, you promised me you'll wait. Being out there alone is too dangerous, if you trip over you can break something. BERTY, help me with him. BERTY v.2.0.8b: Commander is right. After experiencing microgravity for a long period of time not only muscles but bones as well are weakened. Effects similar to osteoporosis were observed in all crew members. Beside spaceflight osteopenia and balance disorders, the immune system is weakened too. This combine with decreased red blood cells production and putting too much stress on cardiovascular system may lead to- BILL: It's just a damn flag, for Kod's sake. JEB: Bill, stop it right now or I swear I'll come down there and kick your sorry old- BILL: Done! It's done. :heavy breathing: The flag is planted. BILL: :heavy breathing: JEB: How are you feeling? BILL: A little dizzy. JEB: Bill... BILL: But I'm fine, really! BERTY v.2.0.8b: Oxium level 97%. JEB: You take one more step without Genanand and Mallock by your side and you're gonna regret this. BILL: I'll wait, I'll wait. :heavy breathing: Oh boy - I'm here. I'm really here and I'm walking on the surface of the mun of Jool. JEB: What did I say about walking? BILL: Metaphorically speaking. :heavy breathing: Hell. :heavy breathing: All what we went through – being here makes it all worth it. *** MISSION STATUS ***

Just passing by to reply to that. The change allow for other mods to query FAR part for different info inflight. The one I have working now is control surface torque, but more will/should come. BUT this code won't come to MJ fast since I need to add some code changes (hooks) into MJ so we don't have to maintain a separate MJ+FAR dll. If you want to talk with me more about FAR support in MJ come to the MJ thread, no need to fill this one

I think the current way the Daily Kerbal does things is pretty shallow. A plug for one mod? That would take, what, a short look at the add-on forum, and five minutes to write? Mods evolve and appear so fast, it would be nice if they could talk about a few mods at a time, and offer a bit more opinion on what's been happening with them. A few paragraphs at least would be nice. Sure, the guy probably has other work he needs to do, but a little more wouldn't hurt.