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Found 39 results

  1. Hello. I'm fairly new to Kerbal space program, but I've played for a few hours and I feel like I've advanced pretty quickly. I've landed on the mun on my first attempt, no reverts required, Minmus required me to redo the entire mission because I forgot to include a heat shield(other wise perfect), and I've even rescued a Kerbin for a contract. Now I'm not dumb. I know all this is absolutely nothing to compare to what some of you guys have done, so I want to ask you guys a question. I want to build a space ship capable of reaching every planet in the solar system and get a surface sample from each, and all of that good stuff, then return back to Kerbin to collect all the science points from it. Now I've realized a few things from that. 1. I will have to build a rocket in orbit around Kerbin. I simply can't get that much fuel and cargo up in 1 go. 2. This mission will take days, possibly weeks(Real life weeks. Decades in game). And I will have to save often. I'm prepared to do so. 3. I will need a way to land on every planet and return. For the non atmosphere planet's I feel like I can do this. For the planets with atmospheres, I'm thinking I will need a space plane. 4. I will need solar panels. 5. This will cost me millions if I do it in career, which I plan to. What I want, is tips. Do I need something to store surface samples? If I get the surface samples on different landers, can I move them all back to a space plane to land on kerbin again for recovery? General tips for things so that I don't realize I've forgotten something very important during the building stage? What engines do you recommend? I don't plan to do this now. I plan to do it later after getting much better at the game. But if I can start working on important things I'll need to have right now, I'd like that. Actually, first question if you could answer, is if this is even possible. Or feasible. If not, it's a fun hypothetical idea. P.S. I'm new, if this is in the wrong topic please move it.
  2. Hi I'm not quite new to the forums, but haven't been active a lot. Now I decided to share some of my epic missions with you. I'm playing this almost vanilla, just with some minor mods for precise planning, better visuals and of course, to make it more plausible: life support. An (almost) complete mod list: Distant Object Enhancement Environmental Visual Enhancements Kerbal Alarm Clock KAS KIS Persistent Rotation PlaneShine SCANSat scatterer Stock Visual Enhancements TAC Life Support MechJeb SimpleContruction Planetary Base Systems Konstruction Link to my gallery: http://richman1050.imgur.com/ The pale blue dot, circling the green giant has captivated generations of Kerbals since the beginning of astronomy. With the beginning of the space age, Kerbalkind got to taste what it could be to visit it's mysterious twin for the first time. But to find out, what it would look like to visit the beaches of this far off world, there was alot lot learn, a lot of progress to be made, and a lot of mistakes that were awaiting brave pioneers. The KSP, the Kerbal Space Program, as it was officially named had quite some successful missions: Landing a unmanned UAV on Duna: Duna Direct: The Ravenstar: The Rolling Thunder: But all these missions served only one purpose: the get to Laythe one day. Finally, KSC accumulated enough bright minds, technology and of course funds to start with this humongous undertaking. Part I: The construction of the DSV Hermes http://imgur.com/a/8QevU
  3. Pandora IV (The grand tour)

    INTRODUCTION: This is a story about my quest to visit all the celestial bodies in the Kerbal system. Though it will be a book, it will be told through the eyes of the crew. Enjoy guys! STATS: Crew: eight. (Commander, Pilot, Flight Surgeon, Botanist, Co-Pilot, Lander Pilot, Chemist, Flight Engineer) Commander: Lo var Kerman Pilot: Jebediah Kerman Botanist: GeofGee Kerman Chemist: Bob Kerman Co-Pilot: Valentina Kerman Lander Pilot: George Kerman Flight Surgeon: Chris Kerman Flight Engineer: Bill Kerman Flight plan: Stage 1: Mün and Minmus Stage 2: Moho Stage 3: Eve and Gilly Stage 4: Duna and Ike Stage 5: Dres Stage 6: Jool and her moons Stage 7: Eeloo Stage 8: Kerbin return ----------STORY START-------- Lo var Kerman, Commander. Day 1, 2 hours, 56 minutes. We just boarded the Pandora IV. It was quite the sight as we ascended into orbit, with this beauty greeting us. I think I'll get to know this ship pretty well. It was a long flight. After we got in orbit, we had overshot the rendezvous point, so we had to make a lot of course corrections. The whole crew is excited about this journey. We all know the dangers, and we are willing to risk our lives in the name of science. Unlike other craft, our Pandora doesn't have a centrifuge, so the whole ship is zero-G. We have been training for this moment for years now, and now the training pays off. I should probably log off now. A couple other crew members want to log as well. The Pandora IV Bob Kerman, Chemist Day 1 3 hours, 1 minute. After boarding the Pandora, I took my experiments to the SPU, (Science processing unit) along with the ones for GeofGee. Kerbin is beautiful from up here. Jeb and I went down to the coupula for a minute, and we just sat there in awe for a few minutes. It's strange when you're in space. You look at your planet, and you feel upside down when in reality, space has no ups or downs. I just stared at the countries, and watched the clouds move. I think I might spend more time in here. Its beautiful. I looked at our shuttle that took us here undock and return, and soon I saw the solar panels unfold and the aero shield open up. Not very many people can say they've been in space, let alone say that they're going to all the planets. I am so anxious to go, I might pee my pants. (Which doesn't matter up here, considering we wear absorbent pads.) Chris Kerman, Flight Surgeon. Day 1, 4 hours, 35 minutes. It took me a little more time to write in my log. I had to go and prepare the clinic for anything. Up here, you have to treat injuries very carefully. There is no "ambulance" to take you to a hospital. You're millions of miles away from your home, and you're protected from space by a thin layer of metal and padding. Well, that was short... And to the point. Jebediah Kerman, Pilot Day 1, 18 hours, 20 minutes. We already began the TMI burn, to propel us towards the Mün. It went smoothly, but took almost 20 minutes, due to our engine's low TWR. Now we're on our way to the Mün. We'll see you in 3 days you small moon!
  4. At first I thought it was my imagination, but it has now happened twice. I have a long-duration unmanned space probe on an interplanetary trajectory (inwards, towards EVE) that simply disappeared! It doesn't appear anymore on the Interplenatary Map view, nor as an object listed in the Tracking Station (which is now fully upgraded in my career). The vehicle was a "Sentinal Class" space probe that I launched to fulfill one of my career mode missions - in this case to track/map asteriods. It was a pretty basic interplanetary probe, though equipped with one of those large "Sentinal" camera/scanners. I was so concentrated on doing my first "kerballed" Duna flight I didn't notice exactly when it happened. So last night I relaunched my "Sentinal" mission, and had successfully sent it on an escape trajectory from Kerbal. But, after switching to map mode and back to tracking station - this second Sentinal was also gone! What's going on? Is there a maximum number of objects that perhaps I exceeded? Or is this some sort of bug/glitch in the Tracking Station mode? I cleared out a few of my "debris" objects and will now re-launch a third mission. But if there is some maximum count limit I should avoid, it would be good to know this. Fortunately, the lost probes are un-manned. It would be a shame to lose an actual crew this way!
  5. This is the largest rocket I've made to date and well, I thought I'd share how it went. This started with me getting some missions for Duna and Ike, I had to: Position a satellite around Ike. Get Science from around Duna Get 3000 Ore from Ike to Duna Plant a flag on Duna Rescue Henster Kerman from Ike orbit and bring him back to Kerbin Now, I already have a station around Ike, and a Miner/convert+Fuel delivery craft on Ike, so all I really had to do was get to Ike in a craft that has enough fuel capacity to make it back to Kerbin. So, I built this monstrosity. At launch, it weighs about 5200 Tons, which falls to about 965 tons once it's in an 80+ Km Orbit. At the top is the Ike satellite, sitting on top of the Lander/return craft, which in turn sits on top of the Duna lander/ore delivery. vehicle All of which sits on the transfer boosters, which sits above the massive launch boosters. *edit* The craft changes name under way because I realized that I had called it "Mars Mission" oops, but the entire trip is done in one take, hence why I made a workaround when an engine broke
  6. This is a continuation/expansion of a Challenge posted a while back by @jasonden reacting to Elon Musk’s scheme to launch 100 passengers to Mars and return to Earth in a reusable spacecraft. The original is here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/148926-the-elons-problem-challenge/&page=1 The goal is simple: Take 100 Kerbals (or more) to Duna and return them safely to Kerbin in a reusable (or mostly reusable) spacecraft. The Rules Are: No Cheating (Debug menu, Hyper-edit, Hacking the save file, any “cheaty” mods, etc.) Informational and control mods are OK. Purely visual mods are OK. Entries using modded parts will be scored separately. (Unless the difference is really small) Kerbals must be in pressurized containers, at least during atmospheric flight and interplanetary travel. Scoring is based on cost per Kerbal, which is: Fuel Cost + Cost of any parts launched but not recovered on land* One Craft To Duna. Multiple Launches are OK, Multiple Landings are OK, but the sections must constitute a single craft for the trip to Duna and the trip Home. Fuel Recovered doesn’t count against cost. ISRU is OK except on Kerbin. (i.e. no launching the ship empty, drilling for fuel, then claiming you have no fuel costs) *As discussed in the original, rockets recovered from the water aren’t really reusable, so to count, it has to land on land. Exceptions include: Landing on a floating platform, some other landing scheme where the rockets are protected and you can tell a good story about why they would be OK For my first attempt I copied Musk’s Plan as closely as I could, but there were other good solutions too! Be creative! I’m getting the scoreboard started by pulling in the entries from the original, but hopefully we can add to it! I also want to open it up to other planets/moons as well, so If anyone wants to have a go, I’ll put up some separate categories: Easy Mode: Mun, Minmus Laythe Mode: Laythe Little Moons: Ike, Gilly, Pol, Bop, Vall Big Rocks: Moho, Dres, Eeloo Bigger Rock: Tylo Expert Mode: Eve** **Before I get too many replies saying “You Maniac!” Yes, I realize it is quite impossible (or at least wildly impractical) to have a reusable ship to Eve and back. But therein lies the challenge! Sure, you’ll need some monstrous beast that sheds most of its stages to get to orbit, but how cheap can you make those parts you leave behind? I don’t know, let’s see if anyone can do it at all first. Score Board: Duna - Stock: 462: NoobTool --- 150 Kerbals. Single Launch in a fully reusable Spaceplane 532: Clancy --- Followed Musk’s Plan, No wheels, No Parachutes. Landed Booster on floating platform, refueled with 2nd Launch. Lots of careful aerobraking 1640: Thomas H. --- One launch, SSTO booster, Minmus refuel, careful atmospheric entries to avoid needing heat shields 2240: burner_nn --- Many distributed launches, modular design, link up in LKO for Duna transfer, modules separate again for Duna/Kerbin EDL --- I’ll add and update the score boards as more entries come in. Happy travels!
  7. Hello there! I'm new to the forums, so why not introduce myself with a craft. This is an interplanetary spacecraft built with every Near-Future Technologies mod, built almost entirely in orbit. It's built from 5 docked parts: command pod with a JX2 antenna and an octagonal truss "bicoupler", 2x2 octagonal trusses with xenon fuel tanks and radiators and 2x2 xenon fuel tanks with solar panels, 2 fusion reactors and 2 VASIMR engines. Total Delta-V (according to Kerbal Engineer) is 26,359m/s on high-efficiency mode. It's all nicely strutted up using KIS. Alright, here are the screenshots: If someone wants .craft files for some reason, DM me
  8. [Stock] STS - Pegasus II

    STS - Pegasus II A more specialized Shuttle with a recoverable SSTO lifter... It's not very easy to fly and max payload is only 18T, but can perform a variety of missions, including interplanetary transport... Download: https://kerbalx.com/luizopiloto/STS---Pegasus-II
  9. Grand Tour ++

    Mission Challenge: Build an Interplanetary Ship that can go until Jool, Use it to Drop 1 Ship on each planet Sun - Jool, also the moons, that needs to land, an perform atleast 1 Science Experiement! Manned! Im trying now for 3 Hours and i still havent managed to do this! Mods are allowed as long they are: 1. Ballanced //Well... 2. No Warp Drives etc. 3. no Supply Systems ONLY for Building //i think you need to assemble this in orbit, The Drop Ships for each Planet dont have to be the same, also on planets you cant land you dont have too... (Jool, Sun, etc.) Have Fun HurricanKai
  10. My first forray into the world of plugins is this pack of 15 contracts. Players will be rewarded for traveling to the most extreme elevations (both high and low) of the various bodies in the Kerbol system and planting flags. The contracts for celestial bodies with unique, non-sea-bed base elevations (Eve, Kerbin, Minmus, Laythe, and Tylo) only require the player to summit the body's highest mountain. *** Please note: As this is my first attempt at writing a plugin, I expect there to be hiccups here and there. I encourage reporting of those issues here, and will do my best to address them. Credit: Coordinates of maximum and minimum elevations obtained from kerbalmaps.com (temporarily located here) Installation Changes/Updates Known Issues Pack distributed under the MIT License.
  11. Hello fellow Kerbonauts, I'm here today to pose the question of how do I make my interplanetary vessels not wobble in orbit? I have a constructed an interplanetary vessel in orbit, that will hopefully be capable of reaching Jool. It's held together by Clamp O Tron Sr's, apart from an attachment node thingy in the middle where there are four regular clamp O trons, in which I hope to add a small lander, a resource extraction system, and a couple of other bits and bobs. However, the vessel wobbles terribly when I try to move it, and this is without the extra things on it. Any help is appreciated, as I'd like to get Jool done and over with, so I can restart my Career in RSS/RO. Thank's in advance, Stelum
  12. Hey guys, so I am looking for some tips on how to efficiently rendezvous with asteroids in interplanetary space, as I've heard that it would be more fuel efficient in the end, when dealing with bigger asteroids (starting of with C-Class and then going bigger). I want it to be fuel efficient too, as I am planning on mining them in my career mode. Rendezvous with them, when they are in Kerbin's sphere of influence, I've got pretty much nailed down, as all that need is some "basic" rendezvous. I did do a few quick searches, but they didn't help me out much, so sorry if there if there is a topic with it (link then maybe?) All tips help, as it is always good to refresh some old knowledge too (been playing it for almost 4 years I think)
  13. I posted this elsewhere but it dawned on me that perhaps I ought to post my mission report in the mission reports part of the site. Duh. Anyhow I present to you, my first successful Duna landing and return mission! http://imgur.com/gallery/BCeWu
  14. Greetings! Story: I basically have always wanted a cruiser capable of ferrying ships from one planet to another, or defend from invasions. Thus I finally managed to get the handle of it with a few mods, and created a carrier with maximum efficiency for fuel/payload. (Can now ferry vessels from one planet to the next without any restraints on payload or fuel with a independent refueling process). Specifics: Crew Count: 5 Crew total Engine Count: 2 Large Efficient OPT Mod Dark Matter Engines (1:1 O2/LF for 1500 thrust each). Docking Ports: Contains 8 docking ports of medium size located on top/bottom of the hull. Power Generation: 48 Radioisotopic Heat Generators (R.T.G)'s + Fuel Cells for LF -> Energy. R.C.S Information: Around 50 RCS Ports for horizontal and Vertical movement (100% efficient). Internal Storages: Can store a lot of equipment within the hull. (not bay's, but hollow fuel tanks). Additional Equipment: Contains two large convertors for turning ore into resources + Extra fuel. Additional Information: *It can be used to ferry ships from planet to planet, and use them to bring ore back to make more fuel* *Capable of traveling the entire solar system and back to kerbin without any fuel exhaustion** *Has been tested to fly with three of my aircraft, a fourth can be attached but isn't required* *Think of it as a moving space station with two overpowered engines and ability to carry crafts* Screenshots:
  15. I'm currently trying to pass that next great milestone in every KSP player's career: my first landing and return from another planet. In this case the planet is Duna, but here's my problem. Whenever I do my interplanetary transfer and encounter Duna I end up with a periapsis well below or above Duna. This means that I would have to expend a ton of fuel to achieve an equatorial orbit. Is there a better way to do this? Is there a way to angle my ejection burn so that I match Duna's orbital inclination or do I have to do a mid-course correction (not looking forward to the dV required for a plane change with an orbit that size I can tell you)?
  16. An interesting contract came up with a Kerbol orbit between Duna and Kerbin. I thought, for a moment, and my brain said to me: "Hey. That means you could stop for gas on your way from Kerbin to anywhere beyond!" And so I moved the mouse over to click 'accept.' My finger had velocity when another part of my brain suddenly burst out of it's office screaming at the top of it's lungs, "STOP THE PRESSING!!!!!" There was a flurry of mental papers and commotion as the mouseclick was aborted, and I look at that part of my brain tensely, waiting for the explanation. It took a moment to gather itself and then added: "If you park that station in that orbit, you'll never know if it's ANYWHERE near where you're going to want it to be for those trips. Sure, you can maneuver to intercept but each orbit being more than a year, rendezvous maneuvers could take decades to complete unless you're carrying way more fuel than you need to complete the mission anyway. Even if you do find it useful for refueling, any mission with that kind of stop will DEFINITELY take decades to finish." I passed on the contract. But was that part of my brain correct?
  17. Best Interplanetary Craft!

    Good day everyone! What's your best/favorite craft that you've made for interplanetary missions? I haven't gotten past Mun yet, but I'd love to see what others have made, to get an idea of how to get to other planets Thanks!
  18. Briefing: The Space Program gone bust. All their benefactors had pulled out, leaving them with no contract work and therefore no way of making a profit or even breaking even. Unfortunately, there was a problem. A big problem. All the long term interplanetary missions were still flying with no chance of return before the Space Center shut down. Lucky for them, Billy-Bobbles Kerman had had a small stake in the Space Program which he had cashed in before it had become completely worthless. He knew that he had to help as many of the stranded crews as possible. So, on the very last possible day, he cobbled together a small rocket that would allow the scattered craft to dock and refuel eachother so that they could all come home safely. Your mission: Launch a Rockomax HubMax Multi-Point Connector, along with a docking port on all attachment points, to another body for less than 50,000 funds (or roots, money, dollars, Kerbin Standard Monetary Units or whatever you want to call them). Scoring: (50,000 -(Mission Cost ) * (Direct DeltaV / DeltaV Expended) * (1 + (Planetary Systems Visited * 0.5) Bonuses (added to score): SSTO: 10000 Per Kerbal (No seats): 5000 Mods: Informational mods, visual mods and parts mods that aren’t overpowered are allowed. Other mods are banned unless you ask me and I approve them. Leaderboard: Nobody yet My Attempt: This is by no means a good attempt and should not be interpreted as the best possible. http://imgur.com/a/EyOnp My score: Direct DeltaV: 5076 m/s Actual DeltaV: 5546 m/s Mission Cost: 23330 funds (50,000 -(23330) * (5076 / 5546) = 24409.4229035 Notes: Cheats are banned, questions are appreciated and will be answered as soon as possible and any suggestions just PM me or put in this thread. The "Direct DeltaV" is the optimum DeltaV to perform the transfer(s) that you did, calculated by Alexmoon's Launch Window Planner in the first 10 years from the start of the Space Program. Use the orbital heights actually used by your mission. For example, if you went to Jool using two Eve gravity assists, then went to Duna with help from Tylo, you would enter a Kerbin - Jool transfer (making sure to set the latest departure date to Year 10, Day 1) including circularisation. If you go from an 80km Kerbin orbit to a 210km Jool orbit, this will result in a DeltaV of 4,881 m/s. Repeat this for the Jool - Duna transfer (60km Duna orbit), getting 4,345 m/s of DeltaV for that. Finally, add the two values as well as the 3400 m/s (the DeltaV needed to get into orbit in 1.1.3 according to the DeltaV map) to get 12626 m/s as your Direct DeltaV. Visiting the Kerbin System does not count towards your score. At least one other system must be visited to qualify.
  19. Based on Project Orion from the 1950's, I built this Mothership to send kerbals to the Mun and Minmus in style! It carries 2 Mystery Goo Containers, Barometers, Thermometers, and Negative Gravioli Detecters. It also has 2 docking ports on the side to allow for landers, rescue craft, or refueling craft. Unfortunately, I cannot provide a download link as this craft is on Xbox. Here is the Imgur Album, http://imgur.com/a/GvmXm I also made an Orion Mini so comment if you want to see that!
  20. I'm a long-time player, but I've never been much good at efficiently building for interplanetary missions. Though I've gone interplanetary, it's pretty much just luck if I make it or not. No matter what, I can't seem to build a craft with more than 11km/s dV. I'm basically looking to have two questions answered: 1. How do I find out exactly how much dV a trip will take? I've seen dV maps, but don't have much of an idea how to read them. 2. How much dV should each stage have, starting from LKO?
  21. So anyone know a good way to send heavy payloads interplanetary? I would like to send a big submarine to laythe. The submarine is < 20 tons. Anyone know a good way to carry this all the way to laythe?
  22. A Few Travel Questions

    So, I have a predicament. I have been playing KSP which I have owned for a while and although I only got about 20 hours under my belt since the Early Access days (don't really have time to play games) I have gotten back into it. Well, I inadvertently launched a test orbital ship into space with enough power to break Kerbin orbit and enter into what appears to be a stable elongated orbit of the sun (read it all as it goes down here: Anyways, as I plan my rescue and refine my space program abilities (we only just achieved Kerbin orbital capabilities last night!) I realized that to attempt a mission of such magnitude presents a few hiccups. So, I will break my multi-part question down into smaller ones: Launching from KSC My first thought was SSTO but not only can the KSC construction building (fully upgraded) not handle rockets that I'm building (they get to be too tall for the building) but the SSTO component creates so much drag that even with the SpaceY Heavy Lifters SRB all firing at launch, it still takes the Liquid Rockets to reach a high enough altitude and burns through most of the fuel supply meaning no turns to establish orbit. I've seen a lot of craft on here and I'm sitting here asking myself, what am I doing wrong (the thread I linked off to contains the booster segment in my second post). It feels like drag as smaller launches for satellites on a new platform are working well as my space program techniques are refined (I get the Mach effect and have to use SAS to stabilize or else be flipping back to the ground in the SSTO booster so I feel I designed the vessel wrong) Orbit of Kerbin Can I dock a spacecraft at an orbital station for refueling (I do have a number of mods from KIS to KAS and than some - not reflected in the post I linked off to as I didn't have them then)? Can I dock multiple components to create a larger spacecraft in orbit of Kerbin? Planetary Assist Maneuvers My space program, as I stated, is obviously at a very early era with it just beginning to create craft capable of orbiting Kerbin. However, I successfully launched an automated craft that reached 11,000+m/sec and was plotted on Kerbin's escape before it was destroyed. What I am trying to figure out (and I have been reading) is how do I make the cross over maneuver to intercept a planet's orbit? (I think I have started to figure out how to do the orbital assists but getting to the planet is a bit harder). I see the alignment come up on my map when I set the target with the time, degrees, and delta-v needed I think. I am just not sure if that's what I am supposed to follow. Intercepting the target Spacecraft When I select a planet as a target, KSP can give me what I believe is the appropriate information if what I said above is true. Now I'm just trying to figure out how to intercept a spacecraft moving 3,000 m/sec and move my Kerbalnauts from the first craft to the rescue craft. Can I just EVA them at a close enough range? Returning to Kerbin KSC has no beacon. No ILS marker. Nothing. How exactly am I supposed to return to KSC in a spacecraft. So far my spacecraft have been pods so it didn't matter where on the planet they landed but I'm constructing a spaceplane for the final descent so landing at KSC which has a runway would be helpful. Knowing this would allow me to calculate a de-orbit trajectory. Reverse Thrusters - we're talking about a multi-stage interplanetary mission. We'll obviously need to slow the spacecraft down before reaching Kerbin descent. Is it even possible to mount reverse thrusters such as SRBs? Miscellaneous I think I am doing something wrong with the radial decouplers. When I try to decouple the SRBs from first stage they don't actually decouple and stay attached. You can see and hear the decouple effects. This is with the stock radial decouplers. Interestingly, in the many, many times my rockets have exploded, you can see in the report that the radial decouplers are colliding with the SRBs but the SRBs aren't exploding (these catastrophic failures where my rockets blew up were on reentry to Kerbin). Yes, so a number of questions but a very complicated and challenging mission coming up which I hope to learn a lot with.
  23. Duna lander

    Hi everyone, I have a duna mission in orbit around kerbin waiting to go to duna. Id it possible to lift off duna and get back to kerbin with one x200-32 rockomax fuel tanks and a Skipper engine and a 3 person capsule with some ladders and solar panels? If not should I use that as my command ship and launch another lander or launch an orange tank with a skipper engine and use my currreny lander. My current lander is not equipped with rcs but does have a docking port. Thx in advance -Ribby kerman
  24. I am constructing an interplanetary spacecraft (specifically to Duna) at a small space station around the Mun. Once it is done, I will break out of the Mun's gravity and head towards Duna. My question is this: Is it more efficient to do the escape burn at a really high orbit, like you get after leaving the Mun's gravity, or should I first lower my PE to around LKO? I think burning to get a low PE would defeat the purpose of any extra efficiency, but I'm not sure. Help is appreciated!