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Found 12 results

  1. Is it possible the MM patch the MPL back to the old functionality where it just boosts the available transmission of an experiment? I found @Snark MM patch to cut out the 5x multiplier, just wonder what else to add for the transmission part? Oh - just in case someone suggests it - I know about Dmagics science transmission mod - however I was just hoping for a MM patch level of change - I've already got 112 mods and the spacetime fabric seams in my game are starting to go...
  2. Hi all, can someone enlighten me as to how the lab (once full of data) then empties that data to allow me to input more? My current lab has 743.943 out of 750 data stored and it's being processed at 5.0216sci / day. I'm not seeing that 743 figure go down so I can add more. Is there something I'm missing? Cheers.............MadJock
  3. Hello all, I've just started getting into the use of the MPL and read a lot about how insignificant it is to process data on the surface of kerbin compared to the orbit or surface of another celestial body. While that makes total sense and encourages the player to send a manned MPL to other places I decided to have my first MPL on orbit arround Kerbin. Reading the data on the wiki and forums I got the explanation that you won't get much data on the orbit of Kerbin either and landing it or at least orbiting any of the moons or Duna would be a better option to spend the scientists and money on. BUT, with little planning and micromanaging, I gathered sufficient surface(launchpad), atmosphere(just the path to gravity turn) and space experiments (less than a couple of 30' orbits) to convert them all to data on orbit arround Kerbin to fill the 750 data pool on the MPL even BEFORE I finished the experiment list on the "space near" situation arround Kerbin, my whole plan to get more data on "space far" and remain there was a total waste, not to mention going even further. Is there any benefit at all to send the MPL outside of Kerbin? Of course that I could do it just for the milestone and fun, but I think that all the higher science multipliers of other celestial bodies are irrelevant. It would make more sense that the data to science conversion or the science production rate gets multiplied and not just the experiment value to data. What do you think? TLDR: You can fill the 750 data pool by just orbiting Kerbin
  4. Background: In my recent career game I restarted for 1.2.2, I was originally working out a tutorial series for Hard Career that was reasonable to follow. Then I got distracted, as I'd never built a significant base on land before. Between that point and the beginning of the career, I'd picked up the updated Camera Tools mod that @BahamutoD started and @jrodriguez has been able to recently maintain for us fellow Kerbal Lovers. Go both of you guys, you rock! So, in playing with Camera Tools, and then starting to build a base, I decided I'd try and make a fun story about the process and see if I can chase @Nassault630 a little bit in his cinematic adventures while showing off some rockets. That's for you guys to decide, but I'm having fun trying. On future attempts, as this is all already recorded, I'll have to not use auto-position so often when flying and use part lock instead of CoM locks... Anyways, without further ado, here's Part 1!
  5. Hey, so I'm coming up to earning the MPL-LG-2 and I just wanted to know the most efficient way to use it.
  6. I know there have been quite a few discussions about the game balance on the Science Lab / MPL, but I wanted to get all my thoughts down in one place. In my mind, the part is possibly the biggest gameplay problem in the game today. I'll start with a few opinions about the current state of affairs: -The current lab's science processing function is hideously overpowered. 5x science output, without the need to even return the sample to Kerbin (which would get you even more points), is crazy. It's way too easy to max out on science just by doing this. Among other things, this devalues going interplanterary. I think it's already too easy to max out on science just by strip-mining the Mun and Minmus, but the lab makes this problem even worse. -Time is not a meaningful limit on the lab's effectiveness, since for the most part you can warp ahead with impunity. By the same token, scientist experience levels, which only effect research speed, don't matter. (This is the same problem with engineers and mining, but that's well beyond the scope of this rant.) -The current processing function is counterintuitive, and generally not much fun to use. The science vs. data distinction is confusing, especially to new players. It does not make sense that all samples are destroyed when you feed them into the lab (I can buy this for physical experiments like the goo or Science Jr., but not for temperature readouts). Having to bring up two samples (one to feed to the lab, the other take home), is fussy, but is at least is a little easier now with the science container. And since you can't tell what experiments you've already fed to the lab, it's hard to remember what you need to collect if you do want to keep feeding the thing. Finally, having to go back and transmit every time stored science gets to 500 is annoying, especially if you're doing large warps for an interplanetary trip. -Allowing repeat processing of the same experiment is ridiculous and makes the MPL even more game-breaking. Limiting it to one processing per experiment per MPL is not a significant limitation, since it's easy to just launch another one (and you may do that incidentally, by upgrading your main space stations). -While realism is not always necessary, the lab just does not make all that much sense. Why can two Kerbals floating in space get 5x more knowledge from a sample than all the assembled (but admittedly, fairly dumb) scientists back on Kerbin? I do get that there would be some additional knowledge from analyzing a surface sample from the environment it came from. But not 5x more. And again, this rationale does not hold up for something like temperature readings, which are just data. -The MPL's other features (resetting science experiments, enabling KerbNet, and leveling up Kerbals) are fine, and serve to make the MPL kind of a remote hub for your activities, which I think is a good thing. But these features aren't all that useful by themselves, and they don't have all that much to do with the part being, you know, a science lab. -I don't want to sound like I'm opposed to using the lab to get science points. I very much want to have a science lab up in space, doing science stuff. That just seems like one of the things you should be doing in a space simulator, and it's one of the main reasons to have a space station or surface base. The game should reward you for doing this, by providing some (reasonable) output of science or other resources. Moreover, I want my scientist Kerbals to have a function (resetting experiments is fine, but again, not enough by itself). And I want leveling up your scientists to help you in some meaningful way. All that said, what would be a good method to fix the MPL into something that's balanced, still useful, and more fun/intuitive to use? Frankly, I don't claim to have a complete answer. But here are some suggestions, some or all of which might be involved in a given fix. -Scrap the current "MPL eats experiments, generates a new resource called data, eats the data and then poops out massive science points" mechanic. It's bad. Just bad. But at least, cut the output back to something more reasonable, and remove the repeatability in different labs. -Use the lab as a means to get most or all the "recover" value of experiments without having to send them back to Kerbin manually (I think the lab did something like this in the early versions?). Maybe scale the recovery value to the experience level of the scientists operating it. This goes with the idea that the MPL is not "better" at science than the folks back home; it's just more convenient. To make this function meaningful, they might have to decrease radio transmission values relative to fully recovered values. That is fine by me, again especially for goo and the other physical data samples. -Perhaps provide a small science bonus for analyzing the physical samples in the SOI or biome in which they were found. -Offer contracts to go out and get a particular sample from a particular biome, and take it back to an MPL for testing. This makes a lot of sense - suppose the Kerbin State University just got a grant to test the soil for the Mun's East Crater for the presence of isoexplodium or something, and they want you to help out. These contracts could reward you with both cash and fairly significant amounts of science. -When "launch a space station" contracts require a science lab, require it to be manned by scientists. This would be a more significant issue for stations outside Kerbin's SOI. -It's probably fine to leave the other auxiliary functions of the MPL as is. They're just not that big of a deal. It might make more sense to limit the level-up function to scientists, but on the other hand it might be odd if there were no comparable level-up methods for the other classes. I still feel like there's something missing, though. I would like to have a reason to put my Kerbals up there and have them sit around sciencing, like on the ISS. And none of my suggestions get to that all that well. But maybe that's just an inherent problem when time is basically unlimited unless you're using a life support mod of whatnot. Sorry for the lengthy rant. Feel free to add any other ideas for rehabilitating this poor misunderstood part!
  7. So I'm a newb when it comes to the MPL & orbital stations (& maybe the game in general, heh.) But anyways, I understand that if you get science into a MPL it can be "processed" by scientists to turn it into more science basically. My question is, how can you get the science into the MPL? Obviously if its something that you can collect in space on the ship with the MPL, you can just send it right over. But what if I put it somewhere that I have already collected all the science? Like in my current game, lets say I want to put an MPL in Munar orbit. I have already pretty much collected every EVA report, temp scan, pressure scan, etc etc from high & low munar orbit. So I cant really get any easy science to put in the MPL. Could I land on the planet with a lander & then transmit the science to the MPL? Or is the only way to get science into it to land & then takeoff & dock with the MPL & transfer all the data over?
  8. I'm confused on how the MPL works. according to the information i've been able to find(sparse at best..) i should be able to set one of these up on kerbin somewhere and get science from my experiment data. but when, for example, i do a crew report from the tundra, even though the data is worth 5 Mits in the experiment, i get 0 data in the lab for it. it's a brand new lab, never done any experiments before. i am playing version 1.1.3 x64, pretty heavily modded, in science mode, but i don't believe any of my mods change the behavior of the MPL. not on purpose anyways. am i doing something wrong? did squad change the MPL in the last update(1.1.3), and i missed it? did a mod break my game? or is this thing just useless on kerbin? some people say the science you can get from the launch pad is game breaking, but i really don't see how that's possible if this is it's stock behavior
  9. First off, 1.1 is amazing. Running on my Linux box with a great GPU and finally I don't get hitching and silly lag (big space stations are my best friend and worst nightmare). That being said, two questions: 1.) If I bring a piece of science (mystery goo from highlands on the mun...let's just pretend) to any MPL and select Process it in the Lab, what happens to that report in 1.1? In 1.0.5, it would process it, then kick it back out to me for transport to another lab. Does 1.1 do away with that and "destroy" the report when I process it? The game seems to be doing that, but am I missing something? 2.) The amount of data you can store in an MPL is hugely increased in 1.1, but is the rate of science also crazy high now? I thought I was hot excrements when I got my labs running up to 4.5 science/day and now they're at like...20 science/day. Bugs? Features? I'd like to figure this out so I can either jump to 1.1 or stay on 1.0.5 (with my wobbly, laggy main Kerbin station) until they get fixed. THANKS!
  10. Why can't I Transmit Science from an MPL using an Action Group?
  11. I want to propose a new mechanic in Stock to encourage the use of the part called "Mobile Processing Lab MPL-LG-2". Instead of supplying a slow but infinite source of science points, I suggest one based on the current science gathering mechanic. Simplified version: Every SOI has a set amount of science points attainable by the MPL(doesn't matter whether you gathered every experiment or not). For arguments sake, let's say 500sci. Send a MPL into Kerbin orbit, put a scientist and lots of solar panels on it. Click the "start research" button, then after some time and lots of EC the current attained science points in the MPL will increase. At any time the player can transmit the current attained science points(to recover some science earlier if need be). The processing can only continue until the sum of all transmissions and current attained science points reaches the 500sci point limit...at least for this SOI. Sending another new MPL to the same SOI does not get any new science at all: once the 500sci has been reached, then no more MPL science can be done in that SOI...the MPL is essentially useless as far as science is concerned(unless of course you move it to a different SOI). This science is essentially like a thermometer experiment, except that it is worth a lot more, but it trickles in slowly and takes much more electricity(and the scientist and fuel to get the MPL there) Advanced version: Every SOI has a set amount of science points(dependent on the total amount of gathered science in that SOI) attainable by the MPL. For arguments sake, let's say 10% -> Let's say there is 5000sci gather-able science(thermometer,gravimeter,crew report,etc.) in the Kerbin SOI, but at the moment the player has only collected(recovered/transmitted) 1200sci. Then the MPL can only processes until it has attained 120sci. -> As soon as the player recovers/transmits more science points(let's say 2000sci more), then the MPL can continue a little bit further(until it reaches 320sci). Simplified version points 2,3,4,5,6 are all applicable here Unmentioned ideas: Scientist skill level: Should it influence the speed of processing? (time warp nullifies this anyway). OR should the skill level enable "over-processing"(instead of stopping at 500sci, a good scientist can up the limit to 550sci)? Right click menu on MPL: Show the maximum amount of gather-able science point in it's current SOI? (it's a nice way to track progress...although the R&D has a version of this) SOI: Is Kerbin SOI all the science(landed,splashed down, all binomes on kerbin, atmosphere, LKO, high orbit,etc.) except those that are within Mun and Minimus SOI? (In other words, are Kerbin, Mun, Minimus SOIs counted as 3 different unique MPL experiments?) Landed vs Orbit: Should a Kerbin SOI MPL experiment rather be divided into a Kerbin-landed and Kerbin-orbit experiment? But...why?: Both the previous and current version of MPL stock mechanics did not address the issue of encouraging players to use a 3.5ton fragile structure in space. -> "old" MPL made it sensible to use 1 of each "SC-9001 Science Jr" and "Mystery Goo" when doing a mission that required re-using these multiple times. The boosted transmission value was silly: it had such a slight effect for unmanned crafts(one-way trips usually), but adding 300 LFO to a science probe craft could very well let you even return that science back to kerbin. For manned craft, why would i want to leak out ANY science points by transmitting, when i am planning to bring back that crew? The only sensible argument is that the little bit of transmitted science could help support missions, to refuel those far away kerbals who need it. -> "new" MPL is just ridiculous: Start the game, rush the techtree up to the MPL(get solar panels, and basic rocket parts). A few contracts should get enough money for like 10 MPLs. Build a centipede of 10 MPLs, separated by decouplers, each with lots of solar panels. Put them on the runway. Use the VAB to launch your scientists, and a single kerbal to run around the KSC collecting every piece of science he can. Put this heap of science into MPL nr.1 and process it...retrieve that science, store it in the next MPL. So you fill up all these MPLs by copying the same heap of science. Start research and timewarp to the max. -> Your first Mun landing will be a Saturn V sized craft and science will become meaningless However, i understand why it works this why. Whiny players convinced devs that "career/techtree is such a grind!"...career is a mechanic that encourages players to build smart and cheap, on a shoe string budget with outdated technology. If you want to build your dreams, then use sandbox to skip the grind or slide the wonderful difficulty sliders at the start of a new game. I feel the current MPL is overpowered, i vowed to never use it until the techtree is fully researched. The admin building's funds->sci mechanic breaks the techtree as well, but that's for another thread. I was aiming for an abstract mechanic, where the player doesn't have to micro-manage everything. Where a science lab in space just "does science", sort of encompassing what happens on the ISS(NASA wouldn't make a half-way stop back from a moon landing to fill up the ISS with moon rocks, do they? ) This isn't a perfect solution at all, so please criticize and tell me everything that is good, wrong, right, bad about this suggestion.
  12. I've yet to reach beyond the orbit of Minmus, but I already have 4 MPL's in service and several more queued up for launch. Going around to each one to upload their science is a bit tedious. Has anyone heard of a mod that could automate this procedure?