What have you learned to do without an autopilot?

[smart013]

^^ I don't know where you're getting any of that from this thread.

As for reputation being somehow tied to rejecting MechJeb, that is silly. I am a longtime MechJeb user and don't seem to have any trouble with people avoiding repping me.

Sorry, didnt meant the reputation as a forum *user* and the option to give you rep via clicking on a button. Its more about the things players think are "ok" or "not ok" in playing the game and in comparison to other players. Maybe too complicated for my grasp of english to describe, and mybe i am a lone nut i this case behind my own little grassy knoll.

[sal_vager]

There's a lot of players with MechJeb installed, some use it a lot and hand-fly when it suits them, some hand-fly a lot and use MechJeb when it suits them...

Both of these are correct, as are using MechJeb all the time and not using it at all.

The problem isn't MechJeb, we see the exact same attitude that we see with MechJeb expressed to a greater or lesser degree towards part clipping, conf edits, procedural parts...

What is different? What causes this? Why do some players get upset when they see others playing a game differently to themselves?

Answer that and you have your answer for why MechJeb is so "controversial"

Now please stay on topic.

[Starhawk]

Sorry, but in my eyes this thread developed more and more into a bragging contest.

When I started it, that was not my intent. I suppose some of that is par for the course in a thread discussing differing skill levels.

Again. I was really happy that these mechjeb threads seem to die out

It was definitely not my intent to create a MechJeb thread. I was interested in what people think is worthwhile to spend the time learning. As I mentioned in another post, if I could do it over, I would leave out the phrase 'without an autopilot' in the title.

I've only been around the forums for a couple of months and didn't quite realize the depth of the emotion over this. Many of the posters, or maybe most, seem to feel that there is some ethical issue with the use of MechJeb.

Anyway, like I said before, live and learn.

Happy landings!

Edited February 27, 2015 by Starhawk

[smart013]

Now please stay on topic.

I am pretty sure i was on topic. But ok, i will shut up again.

For the record: yes, i use autopilot for some things, yes i learned from mechjeb, no, i never used mechjeb, i would never do this, why should i let my computer fly, its all only for the read outs, yes i learned everything by myself lonely at day one lockedup in my basement. Case closed.

[magnemoe]

^^ I don't know where you're getting any of that from this thread.

As for reputation being somehow tied to rejecting MechJeb, that is silly. I am a longtime MechJeb user and don't seem to have any trouble with people avoiding repping me.

Lol, I would like to see someone doing my famous stock Jool landing without mechjeb, no not for the reasons you think, mechjeb has one feature who that mission would be borderline impossible without.

Engine overheat protection. the the problem is that the temprature deep down in Jool is close to 1000 degree, this causes engine overheat, so you can not burn at 100%, the outer 2.5 meter boosters uses clusters of engines. who don't heat evenly, now who of the 96 engines is close to overheat As you raise the temperature drops so you can increase trust.

its not something you can test much either as the decent take a long time.

Later part of gravity turn had to be done manual anyway as twr on top part was low and needed to burn constant to get up close to 5.5 km/s at Ap.

[Osprey]

The only thing I genuinely struggle with is accurate landing, but I'm developing a solution to this for use with surface bases...

Surface navigation beacons that when you pass overhead, you begin your descent burn to the prescribed periapsis height over the target, so that once 'chutes and aero-drag have come into play, you land damn close by. The idea is a beacon is landed first, before you land the first base elements. The rest is by recording the de-orbit details of the lander on the first instance and then noting those for future missions. And heck, if it's not perfect, that's what surface rovers and base-moving tractors were designed for (or will be).

[TheMoonRover]

Many of the posters, or maybe most, seem to feel that there is some ethical issue with the use of MechJeb.

I think I'm one of the posters that was aimed at, but I never meant to imply anything like that.

There's nothing wrong with using MechJeb, not at all. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think any less of people because they use MechJeb, or vice versa. But by the very nature of MechJeb - an autopilot - you gradually learn the various techniques from it, to the point that you no longer need the autopilots. Of course you can continue to use them if you want (to save time and effort), and there's nothing wrong with that, but you don't really need them any more. It just feels nice to be able to remove a mod you originally used as a training tool; it gives you some sense of accomplishment. (For me anyway, and doubtless many others)

And the reason so many people keep mentioning about not using MechJeb is because the OP specifically mentioned "without an autopilot" (i.e. MechJeb)

EDIT: Which is what you just said. Oops.

EDIT 2: And you are the OP. What can I say, Friday Afternoon. (Is it "you are the OP" or "you wrote the OP"? I've never been sure on that)

EDIT 3: Actually, does it mean "What have you learnt to do, without an autopilot" or "What have you learnt without an autopilot"

I took it to mean the first one.

Edited February 27, 2015 by TheMoonRover

[Commander Jebidiah]

Really should have had an all of the above option.

Biggest feat without an autopilot must be for me is RV and Docking.

[Osprey]

I found docking relatively straight forward once I understood the markers on the nav-ball. Accurate landing without using much fuel or excessive parachutes I find very taxing though, my usual range of tolerance is about 40km.

Autopilots are not cheating, real space agencies use them all the time. I just like doing it manually because it feels more like an achievement when I get it right.

[Starhawk]

Is it "you are the OP" or "you wrote the OP"? I've never been sure on that

I think it's 'you are the OP'.

does it mean "What have you learnt to do, without an autopilot" or "What have you learnt without an autopilot"

It actually means "Which piloting skills have you taken the time to learn?" which is how I should have titled it.

Happy landings!

[micr0wave]

started totally without mods and made it to duna, but now i really like the assistance and automation from mechjeb and the likes, it does all the tasks you have done countless times manually and delays the 'burnout' some might suffer from doing the same thing over and over again.

[Plusk]

Ive never used MJ. Whatever autopilot can do, real pilot can do better. If i wanted to watch flying rockets, id google some space documentary.

IMO, first succesfull rdv is a thrill everyone should experience. One without using nodes, just KER.

[temporalExile]

Yeah, I've never used an autopilot. I'm also kind of upset at the 4 people who apparently can't make orbit without an autopilot. By never even making orbit manually, you are denying yourself of one of the core parts of the game. The same applies to things like mun transfers, but to a lesser degree.

[DoToH]

Checked all of them, but I'm very far from fuel efficiency in landing at a location.

I Installed Mechjeb once, but didn't like it and uninstalled few hours later. I knew the basics back then. Mechjeb is a powerful tool and can help with learning. It would be useful in my first 10 KSP hours or so, when I kept launching vertically and not turning... vertical up and vertical down... then I read about orbital mechanics.

@smart013

I'm not bragging when saying I don't use Mechjeb. It's a fact. It's the same as somebody telling he does his DV calculations by hand while I use KER. It's no offense. I just don't want to lose my time doing something that I know how to do but find boring. Same goes for Mechjeb users. This is not a thread about "I'm pro and you aren't". IMO, this thread is a way to see which tasks are difficult to learn with KSP's tools or tutorials and how some mods help with the learning.

On a side note, I fail to see the relation of the gravity assists with autopilot. I plan them with nodes, so, in my case, there is no more piloting skill required than executing nodes with accuracy. Does Mechjeb (or other autopilot mod I'm not aware of) plan/execute gravity assists? (I tried Mechjeb long ago)

[Red Iron Crown]

Does Mechjeb (or other autopilot mod I'm not aware of) plan/execute gravity assists? (I tried Mechjeb long ago)

Trajectory Optimization Tool (plan) + MechJeb (Execute).