The Positive Forum Movement (Updated 4 December 2015)

[heng]

• Most importantly, no matter how you are treated by someone else, treat them the way you yourself would like to be treated
  

While I generally agree to your idea, _that_ advice always gets me in trouble.

Rephrasing:

• Most importantly, no matter how you are treated by someone else, treat them the way you yourself would like to be treated - while imagining yourself being in their position with their (instead of your) persona/preferences.
  

That little addendum makes this pretty hard.

[Deddly]

That's an interesting angle, Heng. I think everyone appreciates being treated with kindness, patience and tolerance, whilst most people react negatively to sarcasm, attacks on their personality and predjudice. With that in mind, I'm finding it hard to understand which circumstances the advice "treat others the way you yourself would like to be treated" can get a person in trouble. Maybe you can give an example to help us understand what you mean?

[Superfluous J]

I'm finding it hard to understand which circumstances the advice "treat others the way you yourself would like to be treated" can get a person in trouble.

Some people want to be spoken to directly. If you think they're dumb, they want to hear it, preferably in that way. regex (in this thread) implied that he is this way. If regex treats most people the way he wants to be treated himself, then... well... he's already doing that. But many people take offense at his directness. Presumably, he could take offense at more positive ways of speaking, wondering if you think he's stupid by treating him as if he needs handled with kid gloves.

That's just 2 very obvious examples of where treating someone how you would want to be treated could go awry. Generally, though, I think as long as you consistently treat people the way you want to be treated, you can at least say "Hey, that's how I treat everybody. I wouldn't have taken offense if you had said that to me" when things go wrong.

Of course, you need to mean it

[Deddly]

Thanks for the explanation. That being the case, Heng's comment is very valid, then. Treat them the way you would like to be treated if you were in their place and had feelings like theirs. As Heng says, that makes it much more difficult, but not impossible.

[heng]

Yup, 5thHorseman nailed it.

Another classic example: personal space. (not applicable to forum, i know) some people like to get close, others like to stay at arms length. one is an annoying clinger, the other a cold and distant stranger. or sarcasm. personally? i love getting snarky replies, keeps me... i'd love to say 'sharp', but let's just agree on 'less-dull'. what could be a funny throw-away comment to some, can be a devastating slap in the face for others... I repeatingly err on the wrong side of that. (If that totally annoyed/angry/irritated lady from last weekend reads this: i was just trying to lighten up the mood.)

PS: perhaps more fitting for forum posts:

Some people love discussing ideas, and react positve to any argument against their opinions, often even argument in favour of ideas they themselves do not support, just for sports. others may see counterarguments as personal attack to their person... have a coworker who is the latter.

Edited July 1, 2015 by heng
PS

[waterlubber]

the best post I read for a long time!

We definitively need more people like you here.

ps: did you considered cloning yourself and making each of your clone to join the forums?

Would that be sockpuppeting? Are clones allowed?

[Deddly]

OP updated to reflect recent events and because, unfortunately, Kasper's blog entry "On Criticism" seems to have been lost in the forum transfer. If anyone has a backup I'll be happy to link to it.

A few changes were also made to make the message clearer based on comments in this thread.

Edited December 5, 2015 by Deddly

[hieywiey]

I personally think that the users of our forums are pretty damn good. Forums for other games like Minecraft for example, are littered with 6-8 year-olds spamming "ur takin 2 long, gibe us tha [insert childish curse word substitute here] mod alredy!!!!1!!1! (งòДó)ง(งòДó)ง(งòДó)ง(งòДó)ง(งòДó)ง", "wehres theeeee        donwroad;;;˙;;;; i cant find it, ur a stinkypants ;-; :p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:q:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p" (when the download is on the OP in size 26 font, bolded, italicized, underlined, in red, and all caps), or people just being extremely disrespectful to the OPer and everyone else. I really appreciate how kind this community is, we really care about one another and try our best and help others. Thank you.

Note: Comic Sans was used here for comedic effect, in reality I actually hate this font.

[Norpo]

On 12/4/2015 at 4:15 PM, Deddly said:

OP updated to reflect recent events and because, unfortunately, Kasper's blog entry "On Criticism" seems to have been lost in the forum transfer. If anyone has a backup I'll be happy to link to it.

A few changes were also made to make the message clearer based on comments in this thread.

Lost? Nothing is ever lost forever on The Information Superhighway.

It was backed up in the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, you can read it here: http://web.archive.org/web/20151123030948/http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/3184-On-criticism

(The comments are also a good resource, check those out too)

EDIT: Links to the other preserved dev blogs can be found here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/126166-help-save-the-dev-blags-wayback-machine-before-theyre-gone/#comment-2292329

Edited January 9, 2016 by Norpo

[Jimbodiah]

@hieywiey You should try the World of Tanks forums, they are as toxic a cesspool as the game-chat. You get flamed for anything and if your stats are not good you might as well not say anything because you will get flamed even if you are right or try to make a positive comment. Mods there don't give a flying Kerbal about it either, it's like WG want that kind of crowd. It's refreshing to see a community where everyone gets along, even if they don't agree  

[Kyrt Malthorn]

I'm in.  Linked in my sig too.  

Edited March 19, 2016 by Kyrt Malthorn

[Deddly]

Thanks @Kyrt Malthorn. Glad to see others who would like to make a difference.

[Raven Industries]

It would seem this becomes even more relevant in light of the reaction to the 1.1 prerelease.

[RA3236]

3 hours ago, KerbalSaver said:

It would seem this becomes even more relevant in light of the reaction to the 1.1 prerelease.

Considering the amount of followers on the Kerbal Space Program 1.1 Hype Train Thread, I am not surprised.

[worir4]

I just wanted to send this up again because  I have just seen quite a few threads where people are not being nice to each other. Please read the OP guys. 

[Deddly]

Of course, we don't just expect everyone to read this thread, we of the Positive Forum Movement go out there ourselves and put out the fires with our good attitudes and even send friendly and helpful private messages to people when it could make a difference or we see some misunderstanding. Let's go cheer some people up.

[adsii1970]

I think what we are seeing are two distinct clashes of generations - and it ain't all good. I will admit that I am in the over 40 player crowd and was brought up with a different set of social norms. I teach at a local university (with a significant international population) and can tell you the biggest troublemakers are America's youth. During my office hours I have had to spend time with my foreign students who are just beside themselves with the outward rudeness, hostility, vulgarity, and disrepectful attitudes of their American peers. I have noticed on the forum (from the self-reported location line) that many of those on the forums who are displaying the same mentality here are those from 13 to about 20, and unfortunately American (before you blast me, I am an American, too... I simply do not choose to look the other way).

Don't know why I felt the need to share this observation, but there it is...

 

[WinkAllKerb'']

well adsii, watching tv when your 3 year old is rude for your neuronal schemes ...

i mean the amount of stimuli ...

+ it's not like there's one single channel with black and white ...

remind my 1920 stickers: "education enseignement propagande" ?

imho ... "work as intended, whe had a vision, don't live in bubbles" some of the SC2013 staff ... ... ...

Edited April 22, 2016 by WinkAllKerb''

[Columbia]

On 2/27/2015 at 10:50 PM, Dman979 said:

One thing I've found helpful is to avoid responding in haste. What I do when a post irks me is write out my reply in a word document, and leave it for a few hours. Then I come back to it and look at it with fresh eyes. Most of the time, I delete the draft and don't respond because it is too angry/insensitive. If I think I should still respond, I edit what I've written to make it calmer.

I swear, I feel like I've avoided at least two infractions like this. When I first see a post that annoys me, the first reply I think of usually has a sense of hostility and anger. Taking time to refine it and post it helps a lot.

[Dman979]

1 hour ago, Columbia said:

I swear, I feel like I've avoided at least two infractions like this. When I first see a post that annoys me, the first reply I think of usually has a sense of hostility and anger. Taking time to refine it and post it helps a lot.

And I think that's true of most things that we as humans do. We tend to get irrationally upset pretty quickly. Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have any emotion, but I think that if we can every once in a while step back and look at what is bothering us, we end up getting better results.

Oh, and you're welcome.

 

[adsii1970]

On 6/30/2015 at 7:31 AM, 5thHorseman said:

Some people want to be spoken to directly. If you think they're dumb, they want to hear it, preferably in that way. regex (in this thread) implied that he is this way. If regex treats most people the way he wants to be treated himself, then... well... he's already doing that. But many people take offense at his directness. Presumably, he could take offense at more positive ways of speaking, wondering if you think he's stupid by treating him as if he needs handled with kid gloves...

[edited by adsii1970 for relevant content]

One of the things I have been doing before I comment is I right click on the user's name and open it in a new tab before I comment on their post - exception being if I have had frequent interactions with that particular user OR I have read enough of their posts in the past to get a basic feel for their character. For example, I have had regex make snarky comments to me, and I took them in jest because I, by my nature, am also a bit snarky. However, I am hesitant to be snarky with those I am either less familiar with OR feel that they are not playing the same game of marbles I play with.  In other words, I make every effort to know the audience and/or the individual I am addressing as much as possible and practical as is on the forum.

On 5/25/2016 at 11:40 AM, Dman979 said:

And I think that's true of most things that we as humans do. We tend to get irrationally upset pretty quickly. Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't have any emotion, but I think that if we can every once in a while step back and look at what is bothering us, we end up getting better results.

[edited by adsii1970 for relevant content] 

It all depends on the situation, to use a broad statement (which I usually do not do). We all have our pet peeves, our strong opinions, and our own quirks. It is much about knowing ourselves as we try to understand others and their perception of us. I think that today's world and its high speed (and paced) technology has left a lot of people walking around like little bombs waiting to explode. Anything and everything sets them off; myself included! Things that normally wouldn't make us visibly mad seem to infuriate us now simply because we are overstimulated, over exposed, and really have no down-time to detoxify the soul and mind from the stresses of the day. I think your advice of "but I think that if we can every once in a while step back and look at what is bothering us, we end up getting better results..." is spot on here.

[Ten Key]

6 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

I think that today's world and its high speed (and paced) technology has left a lot of people walking around like little bombs waiting to explode.

There is a lot of truth to this. There have been times on this forum (and elsewhere, obviously) where I have felt pressure to respond quickly, lest the conversation wheel off in an unexpected direction while I'm trying to figure out what I want to say. When threads get heated and really start to move, it's very easy to be left feeling like you don't have time to come up with a measured and thoughtful response. 

[Deddly]

@Ten Key, intetesting! I never had that feeling when using a forum,  but that's probably because I tend to avoid arguments like that. On IRC, though, there's a greater risk of coming accross the wrong way because it's real time, people are waiting for your response and you can't go back and edit what you said. 

A good rule of thumb is to never reply in anger - whether it's verbally, real-time text, on a forum or even by letter. On the forum, I'd suggest also reading through it before sending it, to see if there's anything that sounds insulting or condescending (intended or could be misunderstood that way) or simply not reply at all if the conversation turns sour.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Deddly

[thereaverofdarkness2]

On 2/25/2015 at 2:24 PM, Deddly said:

 

• Most importantly, no matter how you are treated by someone else, treat them the way you believe they would like to be treated.

I like to say there are three rules:

• The Silver Rule: Do unto others as they have done unto you.
• The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
• The Platinum Rule: Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.

[Superfluous J]

15 minutes ago, thereaverofdarkness2 said:

I like to say there are three rules:

• The Silver Rule: Do unto others as they have done unto you.
• The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
• The Platinum Rule: Do unto others as they would have you do unto them.

• The Iron Rule: Do unto others before they can do unto you.

No that's not a good rule. Especially for this thread.