riocrokite

[1.3.0] Stork Delivery System [SDS] version 0.2.6 [30.05.2017]

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Wow, great! I just stumbled upon aerocapture problems with recent DRE install. Googled the aerocapture technologies in real world and found dem trailing ballute desings. Was wondering why nobody has ever made one for KSP and here we go, you're Godsent riocrokite :)

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Should help with part count. Great!

yah, I'm trying to tweak a BahamutoD plugin so the craft has different reentry characteristics with and without deployed shield on the bottom, however no graphic effects, would need to seriously change stock code for that as it's currently changing color of all part instead of just submesh:/

pic1 - reentry with retracted legs and deployed central part of a heatshield to cover the engines. pic 2 -powered landing (nuFAR):

eT6vJ37.pnglCoPYb6.png

Wow, great! I just stumbled upon aerocapture problems with recent DRE install. Googled the aerocapture technologies in real world and found dem trailing ballute desings. Was wondering why nobody has ever made one for KSP and here we go, you're Godsent riocrokite :)

cheers, planned parts won't be compatible with stock since I develop them for stork exclusively. However since there's interest I might just do similar stuff in 2.5 and 3.75m form factor (without those irky stork logos on the back :P).

Edited by riocrokite

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yah, I'm trying to tweak a BahamutoD plugin so the craft has different reentry characteristics with and without deployed shield on the bottom, however no graphic effects, would need to seriously change stock code for that as it's currently changing color of all part instead of just submesh:/

Can't help you with stock, but if it's an animation, then for Deadly Reentry you can add ModuleAnimation2Value to it

(example usage: https://github.com/Starwaster/DeadlyReentry/blob/master/DeadlyReentry/DeadyReentry-BahamutoDPorts.cfg)

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cheers, I'll have a look into this. I need to change color of submesh depending on ablator left.

Oh, I misunderstood then... ModuleAnimation2Value can't do that. It's used for changing part properties or module properties based on animation.

(see, this is why Starwaster should not post until AFTER coffee has been ingested)

Edited by Starwaster

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Oh, I misunderstood then... ModuleAnimation2Value can't do that. It's used for changing part properties or module properties based on animation.

(see, this is why Starwaster should not post until AFTER coffee has been ingested)

no worries, anyway the plugin tweaks I've done were too good to be true, KSP is slowing down considerably when I have more stork pods in the scene... now investigating what is causing this...

edit: hmmm, it seems to be updated pod model which is even weirder :(

Edited by riocrokite

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I'll do 2 versions of Pods that go on top of stork lander. First mentioned before with advanced ED-nozzle engines, fuel tank inside. 2nd will be low-tech capsule only.

comparison: lander with hi-tech engines vs low-tech capsule

kerbals: 4(maybe 6) vs 7

engines: yes vs no

heat shield: yes-strong vs yes-medium

fuel tank inside: yes vs no

windows: small-few vs medium-a bit more

rcs: yes-stronger vs yes-very weak

battery: yes-bigger vs yes-weak

integrated panels: yes vs yes

radiation protection: better vs worse

integrated antenna: smaller deployable (worse) vs old-type bigger semi-deployable (better)

8nvdTEU.png

8vkXDC1.png

Edited by riocrokite

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cheers, planned parts won't be compatible with stock since I develop them for stork exclusively. However since there's interest I might just do similar stuff in 2.5 and 3.75m form factor (without those irky stork logos on the back :P).

Yeah, a stock compatible inline ballute would be awesome, not many requirements in the design area for them. If you're interested I can help with modelling and texturing.

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Yeah, a stock compatible inline ballute would be awesome, not many requirements in the design area for them. If you're interested I can help with modelling and texturing.

cheers, for now I don't think there will be problems with modelling since I just have to scale down the model I have. However I would be grateful for suggestions how big should be 2.5m and 3.75m ballutes.

I guess 150m diameter for 3.75m housing and 100m for 2.5m would be okay? Since I plan to use stock parachute module (that takes only parachute diameter and then calculates drag) I would be grateful for calculations how ballute's drag compares to parachute one. Ballute model I have has ratio of about 4 (R/r = 4, where r = radius of the tube, R - distance from center of the tube to the center of the torus)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus

I guess I could use some help with texturing (I can send you models when they are finished).

Edited by riocrokite

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In real life a 8km/s 40° Titan reentry will require a trailing ballute with an airstream facing area of around 750m2 per 1 ton of payload.

Here are the numbers from NASA's website:

azmdhnNm.png

We'll have to find the best size experimentally in the game. Everything is ultra heavy in KSP and people will want to aerocapture vessels as big as MK3 spaceplanes, that's over 40 tons of payload.

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In real life a 8km/s 40° Titan reentry will require a trailing ballute with an airstream facing area of around 750m2 per 1 ton of payload.

Here are the numbers from NASA's website:

http://i.imgur.com/azmdhnNm.png

We'll have to find the best size experimentally in the game. Everything is ultra heavy in KSP and people will want to aerocapture vessels as big as MK3 spaceplanes, that's over 40 tons of payload.

cheers Enceos,

In the same document they state that mass fraction of ballute is 8-12% vs 40% for rigid shell (for 1t in total). So more or less they should be 2-4 times lighter than comparable heatshields. However even with the same mass as heatshields they might be better since a spacecraft is not receiving heat in upper atmo and can be less slim or even not aerodynamic. Then heat shields are very light in KSP compared to RL:

1.25m = 0.3 t

2.5m = 1.3 t

3.75m = 2.8 t

My 180m diameter stork ballute has a reference area of 20573m2 so in RL it would be good for total mass of 27.5t and it would weigh around 3t. The problem with even bigger diameters is that we are approaching KSP physics bubble and weirdness can happen so I would opt for smaller diameters that are heavier than in RL but also have much better stopping power. Then I guess it would be good to balance them against heatshields.

So for example:

1.25m ballute - 0.6t - 50m diameter - good for 15t, average for 30t etc

2.5m ballute - 1.35t - 90m diameter - good for 30t, average for 60t etc

3.75m ballute - 2.7t - 150m diameter - good for 60t, average for 100t etc

Now we could i.e. use hyperEdit to measure m/s2 deceleration at given altitude and body. Then for example 1 m/s2 would be a good score etc.

(stork ballute - 3.75-5m custom shape - 3. - 180m diameter - good for 90t, average for 150t)

The other thing is how ballute can interoperate and exchange heatshield (since aerocapturing usually means destroying ballute from overheating). Well I guess the testing phase awaits ;)

edit: I've opened new thread for ballutes since I guess it's worth to release it as a small independent mod:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/133985-WIP-Inline-Ballutes

Edited by riocrokite

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cheers Enceos,

The other thing is how ballute can interoperate and exchange heatshield (since aerocapturing usually means destroying ballute from overheating). Well I guess the testing phase awaits ;)

edit: I've opened new thread for ballutes since I guess it's worth to release it as a small independent mod:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/133985-WIP-Inline-Ballutes

Destruction is unlikely as it's going to be getting substantially more drag in the upper atmosphere before heating becomes severe enough to destroy the ballute.

Is the actual ballute going to be a part or will it be like the parachute canopies in the stock chute or Real Chute mod? Will it be using the chute partmodule?

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Destruction is unlikely as it's going to be getting substantially more drag in the upper atmosphere before heating becomes severe enough to destroy the ballute.

I guess it depends on initial velocity and trajectory (aerobraking vs aerocapture and periapsis altitude).

Is the actual ballute going to be a part or will it be like the parachute canopies in the stock chute or Real Chute mod? Will it be using the chute partmodule?

First par Depends on the initial speed and periapsis ;)

Since I don't have lots of time I need help with testing and config building for aero models in stock, FAR (RealChuteLite) and possibly RealChute:

DOWNLOAD for testing and discussion thread:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/133985-WIP-Inline-Ballutes

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With top jettisonable tanks a stork pod is able to land on Tylo (however it requires skill and good approach since lander has about 3k dV but quite low TWR).

uAK229C.jpg

tqUzn9R.png

2nd option to put on top of pod is jettisonable life support cargo and aparature (so the supplies last for longer when there's long voyage ahead):

jJIxYC5.jpg

Edited by riocrokite

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so I've tested compatibility of stork landers with Rover's Karibou rovers, everything fits, stork S and M lander are able to land comfortably 2 rovers. quick test:

UmUe5SC.jpg

572XlBF.jpg

GV2pN5E.jpg

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awesome i could really use that. i cant seem to do VTOLs lol...

cheers, more tests today with integrated 'swivel' moving wall (IR) to enable undocking/releasing rovers on the right side. Tested with 2 rovers (15t each) on Duna and Mun. Since I haven't broken ruggedized wheels I call it design mission accomplished :)

0gn7rt5.png

BcNtQOw.png

X8kDesP.png moving IR 'T' part is located inside stork lander

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I think I need to wrap up development for now since the interchangeability of parts is becoming too complicated and move the project to the edge of dropping it.

Part list for now (*=existing one [modified]):

-stork Lander S

-stork Lander M

-stork Lander M moving wall inside (IR)

-stork frame S*

-stork frame M*

-stork frame bottom*

-stork lander frame 1x tanks (versions; small tanks, empty, big tank)

-stork lander frame 1x openable

-stork lander frame 3x openable

-stork tank big

-stork tank side

-stork pod version 1

-stork tank top

-stork life support top

-stork custom ballute

-stork custom parachute

Edited by riocrokite

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so I've tested compatibility of stork landers with Rover's Karibou rovers, everything fits, stork S and M lander are able to land comfortably 2 rovers. quick test:

That's awesome. Now just hoping it's out before my next big launch window :D

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