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BudgetHedgehog

Squadcast Summary (2015-04-11) - Arrangement Of S.H.I.E.L.Ds Edition!

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On the other hand, that kind of bug where taking one action breaks something that by rights should be totally unrelated worries me most. It points to a tangled spaghetti codebase, which itself increases the likelihood of bizarre bugs and makes it harder for Squad's developers to add features and fix bugs. I've heard plenty about optimising and bugfixing but I've not heard any talk about refactoring. Depending on how long Squad plan to keep developing KSP for that could be worth them doing.

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Oh god... Say it aint' so. If the fairings are limited to both separating at the same time then that would suck big time!

So, I'm not a fan of the texture on the fairing. It looks cheap to me. I cannot wait to play with them though. I am very concerned about my above statement. It really does look like the fairings release from a single point and therfore will not be able to seperate one at a time.. This is a MAJOR shortcoming. Considering we can do this with stock already..

What is it that people find unattractive about the new fairings? Is it the yellow stripe? The textures seem at least as good as the ones in Procedural Fairings, and they have some visual interest rather than being a big, plain white thing. Maybe Maxmaps lack of skill at creating fairings is making them look worse than they normally would.

As far as separation sequences, I would be surprised if it wasn't possible to separate fairing segments individually. Even if there are some shortcomings with the implementation of fairings, improvements may come later, or worst case, a mod is created that enhances their function while still remaining "stock." Kind of like how we use Editor Extensions now, which still creates stock craft which can be shared with anyone. I'm not too worried, and I like to stay positive.

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What is it that people find unattractive about the new fairings? Is it the yellow stripe? The textures seem at least as good as the ones in Procedural Fairings, and they have some visual interest rather than being a big, plain white thing. Maybe Maxmaps lack of skill at creating fairings is making them look worse than they normally would.

As far as separation sequences, I would be surprised if it wasn't possible to separate fairing segments individually. Even if there are some shortcomings with the implementation of fairings, improvements may come later, or worst case, a mod is created that enhances their function while still remaining "stock." Kind of like how we use Editor Extensions now, which still creates stock craft which can be shared with anyone. I'm not too worried, and I like to stay positive.

I am just beginning to see that there is a serious lack of effort put into the things that need love in this game. Squad have still not hired enough staff and I have the distinct feeling that KSP wont be all that it could be as a result. Mods don't even factor into my thinking.

The yellow stripe is ugly. And the texture looks crappy dude, no denying it. I can only hope that this will change in future. I just don't hold out much hope as my positivity is being slowly eroded by Squads lack of foresight.

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I am most excited for bugs and performance fixes. I have always needed to mod the crap out of KSP to make it the game i think it should be. I don't expect that to change with "1.0"

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I am just beginning to see that there is a serious lack of effort put into the things that need love in this game. Squad have still not hired enough staff and I have the distinct feeling that KSP wont be all that it could be as a result. Mods don't even factor into my thinking.

The yellow stripe is ugly. And the texture looks crappy dude, no denying it. I can only hope that this will change in future. I just don't hold out much hope as my positivity is being slowly eroded by Squads lack of foresight.

I don't really see it. Fairings in real life look pretty boring, besides the decals on them. I'll take the simplicity of a smooth white texture over some overwrought rivet-covered mess like the first draft of the barn stuff.

We will have to wait and see what happens when 1.0 comes out (or the preview videos).

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I am just beginning to see that there is a serious lack of effort put into the things that need love in this game. Squad have still not hired enough staff and I have the distinct feeling that KSP wont be all that it could be as a result. Mods don't even factor into my thinking.

The yellow stripe is ugly. And the texture looks crappy dude, no denying it. I can only hope that this will change in future. I just don't hold out much hope as my positivity is being slowly eroded by Squads lack of foresight.

Hmm... I actually like the fairings. The only parts in stock that don't look good are the 2.5 m engines and fuel tanks, but to each his own. The system for creating the fairings also seems to be far better than the system in PFairings.

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I see everything being added as a bonus. To be quite frank, if Squad shut up shop tomorrow, I'd still play this game a lot. 0.90 has its rough edges but is still a very playable game. And, if 1.0 became a worse disaster than even the worst cynics are predicting and generated not a single new sale, I would still love this game and play it.

So I don't know what the real problem is. Yes, it's frustrating having to speculate about functionality rather than try it out ourselves, but that's where we are.

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I don't really see it. Fairings in real life look pretty boring, besides the decals on them. I'll take the simplicity of a smooth white texture over some overwrought rivet-covered mess like the first draft of the barn stuff.

I have to say, I agree with this.

I'm normally the first to shudder at the texture choices Squad make (that barn still gives me nightmares), but these fairings are reassuringly simple, clean and limited in palette. The stripe is an odd addition, but whatever.

A little ridge on a edge of a fairing piece or maybe construction out of corrugated metal would look so much better!

No. Just... no.

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The 1.0 fairings remind me of the old Fairing Factory by Nathan Fong, reminds me of the good old days where making a fairing was a pain in the ass.

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I see everything being added as a bonus. To be quite frank, if Squad shut up shop tomorrow, I'd still play this game a lot. 0.90 has its rough edges but is still a very playable game. And, if 1.0 became a worse disaster than even the worst cynics are predicting and generated not a single new sale, I would still love this game and play it.

So I don't know what the real problem is. Yes, it's frustrating having to speculate about functionality rather than try it out ourselves, but that's where we are.

In the past, Squad had stated that once 1.0 was released the game was finished and development would halt. Now, obviously, they've backed away from that claim, but I think there's still a lingering feeling that not too many updates will appear once 1.0 hits the shelves. So you'd rather want 1.0 to be as good as can be, and not a half-baked product still in development. And with so many new features to be added it is going to be a half-baked product.

Second, in a world where many early access games disappointed or never came to full development, KSP is a shining example of "early access done right" and is getting a good amount of attention in the gaming world. Going 1.0 is the moment where major gaming sites (and magazines. do they still exist?) will review the game. You can only do that once. Most of us rather see KSP get a glorious A++ review than a "B-, it has potential but many features need work and are badly implemented" review. A better review means more sales, and more room for further development.

Third, there's a whole bunch of features that's going to be in the 1.0 release that were not in the beta version. Well, you have a point there, that's what a beta is for, to test out those new features. Well, not really. That's what an Alpha version is for. In Beta you're supposed to stop adding features and focus on plugging bugs. And Squad's not even doing that.

It's like taking a road trip from Chicago to New York. Most of the trip has gone amazing. But passing the New Jersey state line (always a bad omen) your driver whips out a bottle of Grey Goose and starts drinking heavily while driving. "Hey, if we crash right now we've come a long way, I'm still happy with where we are!" True, but seeing bad behavior at this point is still a reason for concern. Especially with the finish line in sight.

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Am I the only one who actually likes the yellow stripe on the fairings? Though it could moved to the bottom, or somewhere else. Just so we can see where the fairing starts and ends.

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After reading this post, my developer mind is screaming...

Scope Complete != Finished

Version 1.0 != Complete

Scope Complete = Version 1.0

Final Version = No more fixes or updates for current version.

I'll shut up and return to code.

Edited by MGCJerry

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On the other hand, that kind of bug where taking one action breaks something that by rights should be totally unrelated worries me most. It points to a tangled spaghetti codebase, which itself increases the likelihood of bizarre bugs and makes it harder for Squad's developers to add features and fix bugs. I've heard plenty about optimising and bugfixing but I've not heard any talk about refactoring. Depending on how long Squad plan to keep developing KSP for that could be worth them doing.
From time to time, code does get overhauled.
...isn’t very visible but should make life much easier going forward, I’ve merged both the VAB and SPH into one single scene. How? Well, apart from scenery, craft orientation, designated launch site and camera behavior, there isn’t anything else the SPH and VAB scenes have different from each other. In fact, about 90% of the scene logic is an exact copy on both of them, so instead of having two scenes with a lot of repeated components, there is now a single Editor scene, and the game moves into it by calling a method where you specify which Facility you want to head into.
To add the new gizmos to the editor, I had to delve into one of the most convoluted areas of KSP code, the editor logic. That part of the code is very sensitive to small changes, so poorly-planned tweaks to it usually end up creating a heap of bugs.

This time around though, I decided to put an end to it and take on a complete overhaul of the editor logic code. I undid the mess of switch statements and state logic we had, and replaced it completely by a proper finite state machine setup, using the same FSM system I wrote for the Kerbal EVAs for 0.16. The KerbalFSM system is generic and fully expandable, and allows us to have much more control over what is meant to happen and when.

Of course, this meant chucking out a lot of working editor code, but it was for the best. If we had left it as it was, we wouldn’t be able to add new features without increasing even more the complexity of that already critically complex blob of code. It took a lot of recoding, but I can now say it was definitely worth the effort.

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Third, there's a whole bunch of features that's going to be in the 1.0 release that were not in the beta version. Well, you have a point there, that's what a beta is for, to test out those new features. Well, not really. That's what an Alpha version is for. In Beta you're supposed to stop adding features and focus on plugging bugs. And Squad's not even doing that.

The new features are being tested plenty. There's a 100-man team of dedicated testers working on it right now. The terms "alpha" and "beta" never really applied to KSP, despite the last version being called "Beta than Ever." The reason we got all these early versions of this game is because we paid for it. We're customers, not testers. Sure, we can report bugs, but I guarantee you that the value of bug testing done by the consumer is close to nil. In fact, the work it takes to sift through duplicate bugs, or game suggestions disguised as bugs, probably far outweighs any benefit. I actually have a job as a game tester for a major company, and I know that there is a humongous difference between a consumer casually playing and reporting bugs they find, and a team of dedicated, experienced testers. The only reason companies do actual beta testing is for online games, where massive numbers of players are required for stress-testing and such. I swear, it's like some people forget that a vast, vast majority of games are released with zero beta testing.

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I hope the interstage fairings will solve some of these: (and still i think that the regular decoupler cover should cover all of it even without the use of a fairing)

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Ok, I've been in the Squadcast yesterday and TBH I don't see where people here got the idea that all the fairings would be pointy.

I think it's because 99% of the people in this thread (myself included) didn't watch the stream and instead got all their information about fairings from the 3 pictures shown here.

Maxmaps said specifically than that would not be the case and that the pics he had with pointy fairings were just because he had designed them that way for aesthetic reasons.

The funny thing is, I knew that the instant I saw those fairings. Obviously he made them funny to show how much freedom you had when making them.

'Fun fact: Squad sometimes actually uses Danny2462's videos for bugfixing. If they can replicate the steps and consider it severe enough, they will patch it. But sometimes, they just think 'oh, attaching 2 claws to a kerbal breaks the universe? How about you just don't do that..'"

Not fixing a bug because it's not something a "normal" user shouldn't do is foolish IMO. Bugs like this often have a root cause that can create other issues. Sure, if you can't reproduce the problem, ignore it, but ignoring it up front is just lazy.

Yeah. This reminded me of the "don't hold it that way" garbage that Apple did a few years ago. "This is how I hold a phone." "Oh? You do? Are you Doctor Claw or something?"

In the past, Squad had stated that once 1.0 was released the game was finished and development would halt.

They did? I don't remember any official line from any Squad member about post-1.0 except that it development would continue on.

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I conclude with Twreed87. It's not like they just throw out untested features with 1.0. There has been kind of a closed beta for the last weeks. The QA and experimental teams won't be stupid.

And by the way ... people ... just watch the last 10min of squadcast. Maxmaps totally said that you can sculpt these fairings to look "like a pill" if you so desire. So rounded fairings are possible.

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I don't really see it. Fairings in real life look pretty boring, besides the decals on them. I'll take the simplicity of a smooth white texture over some overwrought rivet-covered mess like the first draft of the barn stuff.

We will have to wait and see what happens when 1.0 comes out (or the preview videos).

Perhaps I am being too harsh. Been a rough week.. I just dont like the yellow band. Its a bit too cartoony.

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Im REALLY hoping the new heat damage doesnt make aerobraking impossible (or should i say very unpractical). Aerobraking saves ALOT of dV, especially with SSTOs when going to say laythe and back, you are going into laythe at speeds in excess of 4km/s, which i doubt is going to be fun when every single time you burn up.

Now i cant really speculate how much this will be an issue (i never aerobrake going on a collision course with planet, but i aim at like 20km PE for most laythe, or 15ish for duna), but im sure hoping it wont ruin my many SSTOs that rely on aerobraking to get to a far away destination and be able to return to kerbin afterwards.

Does anyone know how much on an effect it will have now, and what parts are technically shielded by default? Im hoping that at the bare minimum wings, the MK-2/MK-3 parts, air intakes, and cockpits are shielded, thats all the parts that are actually going to be exposed to the frontal profile.

Also, im hoping the fairings loose the yellow stripe, it just doesnt look that good (i think itd look better in black or something, or removed entirely), but thats nothing a 5 minute texture edit cant fix, its not like i dont have a MBM-png converter and a hex editor....

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While I agree with the substance of Twreed87 post, all of the posted there assumes that the testers output is actually heard and respected and that they are not just given test X assignements. I've seen games with bigger tester teams where it was clear that ( despite all the confidentiality agreements ) the devs had completely disregarded tester input on anything that was not their predelivered testing cases, with disastrous results in terms of gameplay and sales.. I'm not saying that this is what is happening in here, but there is stuff that the devs have been quite adamant on not changing in spite of insistent requests to do so ( say, manned first ), so it is not a discardable scenario, unfortunately

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One interesting comment I picked out from listening to SQ (around 18:00):

Internal QA took longer than they expected, but because they took that time, Max said the wider 'experimentals' phase is going "swimmingly" so far. (I think that means Squad is not seeing a lot of bug reports about new problems) They have scheduled "a bunch of time" for Experimentals, but, they may not need to use all of it. But, "hope for the best, prepare for the worst."

Discussed around 31:10 - Sad to hear that the new "Tier 0" buildings might not be ready in time. Max did not say they are definitely "out" - but wanted to prepare us for the possibility. On the other hand, I'm happy that Squad is not tying the artist to his desk 24/7, to meet the ship date.

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Will the ore contents in an asteroid be limited or will it be infinite?

Please be infinite... Gas Stations...

That would break a lot of things. An asteroid would effectively be an infinite fuel tank, hook up a relatively small ship and it would have infinite delta-V.

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They did? I don't remember any official line from any Squad member about post-1.0 except that it development would continue on.

Same here. I've been following the development for over two years, and the closest to this I remember is a statement that at some point the game would be done and they'd move on to something else, they didn't plan on adding new features forever.

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That would break a lot of things. An asteroid would effectively be an infinite fuel tank, hook up a relatively small ship and it would have infinite delta-V.

Valid Point.

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