Devnote Tuesday: Experimental Improvements

[h4didact]

I didn't like the Round 8 Toroidal Tank change. I made another thread about it, so if anyone wants to have an input in the discussion, here it is:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/115606-The-Round8-Toroidal-Fuel-Tank-was-repurposed-as-a-1-25m-inline-Xenon-Tank

[sgt_flyer]

If you remove the round-8, we'll really need new options for small probes - the oscar B low fuel capacity often meant having to stack a lot of them - bad for partcount. Maybe some spherical tanks around the size of a stayputnik ?

[Mister Dilsby]

Very good stuff all around, except the loss of the ROUND-8. That is a great tank, not just for probes but also for sticking little Rockomax engines on wings for VTOL and other uses. Besides that, I am not buying a toroidal bladder as a plausible container for bringing pressurized gas into hard vacuum.

[Bill Phil]

If you remove the round-8, we'll really need new options for small probes - the oscar B low fuel capacity often meant having to stack a lot of them - bad for partcount. Maybe some spherical tanks around the size of a stayputnik ?

Probe expansion would be quite helpful.

Longer 0.625 meter tanks. More engines (like a bigger one...) and more science parts (Science Jr, Jr?)

[FlowerChild]

With all the new additions you guys are making, any idea as to when KSP might be entering beta?

[Vallius]

0.90 is what SQUAD calls beta.

If you mean the "beta" for 1.0, it's happening right now! They are already doing experimentals, which is mostly meant for final bug fixing (in this case with 100 play testers) prior to the big 1.0 release.

[FlowerChild]

0.90 is what SQUAD calls beta.

Huh? No...that's just silly. The standard definition of "beta" is "feature complete". They're still actively developing the game, so they're obviously not there yet.

I assumed "Beta than ever" was just a gag name, and wasn't meant to imply any kind of actual beta status.

Edited April 14, 2015 by FlowerChild

[basic.syntax]

I love the sound of all the last minute additions as much as the next person, and I think the developers are aware of the scope and testing need for each case. But, I'm hoping to hear about a 'code complete' period at some point, so the testers can do some long duration stability testing over multiple days: craft part-bashing with 20+ scene changes/reverts. Flights through air, space, and all features enabled. A change in one code area can sometimes have unforeseen effects on another, that seems unrelated at the time of the original change.

[Superfluous J]

Frankly I'm shocked that there were ANY announced additions to the game in this devnotes. I expected "fixed a couple bugs the Experementals team found" and "worked on this non-potentially-game-breaking texture in such and such a place."

[MasterSounis]

Huh? No...that's just silly. The standard definition of "beta" is "feature complete". They're still actively developing the game, so they're obviously not there yet.

I assumed "Beta than ever" was just a gag name, and wasn't meant to imply any kind of actual beta status.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/326-Beyond-Beta

[Lord Aurelius]

Huh? No...that's just silly. The standard definition of "beta" is "feature complete". They're still actively developing the game, so they're obviously not there yet.

I assumed "Beta than ever" was just a gag name, and wasn't meant to imply any kind of actual beta status.

Considering that Squad is fully committed to continued development on this game (not a bad thing per se), I have a feeling that it will be quite awhile before it truly leaves alpha, and until then Squad will keep on doing what they've been doing in terms of updates with each update having a plethora of small tweaks and additions and a few major changes.

[sp1989]

Please please don't make that tank for xenon gas! It's such a wonderful tank for small probes and landers.

[GusTurbo]

Awesome stuff, but I think the Round-8 should stay in its current form. It really is useful for small craft and aesthetics. I think it would make more sense to clone the part and make a xenon version of it.

[Bill Phil]

Huh? No...that's just silly. The standard definition of "beta" is "feature complete". They're still actively developing the game, so they're obviously not there yet.

I assumed "Beta than ever" was just a gag name, and wasn't meant to imply any kind of actual beta status.

Beta isn't really well defined. It's more of a general thing to consider Beta "feature complete."

[Hobbes Novakoff]

Beta isn't really well defined. It's more of a general thing to consider Beta "feature complete."

Beta is "Scope complete." The main scope of the game is in and ready. It's the stage where they add polish (mk3 parts revamp, new landing gear, new wings), remove placeholders (e. g. aero, IVAs), fix bugs (e. g. SOI bug), and add some bits that aren't essential but make the game better (e. g. female Kerbals, resources, reentry heat, the barn). Feature complete is 1.0.

[Bill Phil]

Beta is "Scope complete." The main scope of the game is in and ready. It's the stage where they add polish (mk3 parts revamp, new landing gear, new wings), remove placeholders (e. g. aero, IVAs), fix bugs (e. g. SOI bug), and add some bits that aren't essential but make the game better (e. g. female Kerbals, resources, reentry heat, the barn). Feature complete is 1.0.

The actual stage of Beta in the industry isn't well defined.

[FlowerChild]

The actual stage of Beta in the industry isn't well defined.

Sure it is, but if you believe it isn't, you probably should get editing over at wikipedia:

Beta phase generally begins when the software is feature complete but likely to contain a number of known or unknown bugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

But hey, if I've woken up in a bizarro world where up is down, red is blue, and poodle nuggets are on the menu at McD's (wouldn't be the first time), let me rephrase:

"So when do you guys expect the game will be feature complete?"

Or did I just inadvertently order a boat-load of octopus?

[Bill Phil]

I did look at Wikipedia, and it said "generally" which means that it can be anything.

Beta is set by the devs of the company developing said game.

[FlowerChild]

I did look at Wikipedia, and it said "generally" which means that it can be anything.

Beta is set by the devs of the company developing said game.

Sure, and I can call my bicycle a rocket if I want to have fun with words.

Still doesn't change what "feature complete" means and implies, the shipping crates of octopus sitting on my lawn notwithstanding.

[Bill Phil]

Sure, and I can call my bicycle a rocket if I want to have fun with words.

Still doesn't change what "feature complete" means and implies, the shipping crates of octopus sitting on my lawn notwithstanding.

Beta is a stage of development. It is entirely defined by the game company developing the game. Look at Minecraft. They didn't have the Ender Dragon in most of Beta. In fact, it was very different from modern Minecraft.

Go ahead and call it a rocket, since it would be if you attached some solids to it...

It doesn't change what "Feature Complete" implies at all. But Beta does not necessarily imply "Feature Complete."

[FlowerChild]

It doesn't change what "Feature Complete" implies at all. But Beta does not necessarily imply "Feature Complete."

It does in common industry usage, and words are largely defined by common usage, but hey, like I said, if we're redefining words for kicks, I'm entirely happy to ask my question another way:

When do you guys think the game will be feature complete?

I've heard it's a thing in software development that everyone goes on about.

[Brotoro]

The Round8 Toroidal Fuel Tank was repurposed as a 1.25m inline Xenon Tank.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Unhappy.

Unhappy.

Unhappy.

PLEASE leave the Round8 and Oscar-B tanks alone. Each is very useful.

Instead, make a new tank for Xenon. I would recommend just copying the Round8 model and changing the color. A nice blue color.

Please.

[ThatGuyWithALongUsername]

TOROIDAL FUEL TANKS AS XENON STORAGE? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! why can't you guys just add the KSPX ion parts? The toroidal fuel tank is so useful!

[Xavven]

I don't really care what it's called. Squad has clearly stated what features they're adding for 1.0, and that 1.0 means they are leaving early access. That has no effect on me because I already own the game. I wonder why debating semantics is so important to some folks... In both my personal life and professional career I've learned to pick my battles. I think that's an important lesson to learn.

As far as it impacts me personally, there are a bunch of new improvements and bug fixes I can't wait to try out.

Except for the Round8 tank. I found that 1 Oscar-B plus 2 Round-8s gave me exactly the delta-v I needed for one of my standard satellites. Now I'll have to use an FL-T100 instead, which is a little less efficient (and less pretty). It's a sad day

[Gribbleshnibit8]

Totally against the ROUND-8 change. Useful part, useful aesthetic. Keeps center of mass low for probes that land, looks cool while doing it. Holds better fuel ratio compared to Oscar-B (which still carries an incorrect ratio of Ox to LF after all this time). I can and will mod it back in if necessary, but would like to not have to do that. What happens to all of my LF powered probes when their entire fuel supply gets converted to Xenon? They become useless, that's what!

Please don't make this change!