New ion craft using fuel cell

[Foxster]

So, we will have fuel cells tomorrow. They will convert fuel (just LF or LF+O?) into electricity.

This means we could have an ion-powered craft without the huge solar cells or the need to be in sunlight at all.

I wonder whether this will be worth doing? I suppose it depends on the mass of the fuel cell and its efficiency. If it needs just a very small fuel tank then we could have a new subclass of long-range craft.

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Interesting thought....

[GusTurbo]

It is an interesting idea, but it seems like it would be a poor compromise between chemical and electric propulsion. But then, I'm not sure how efficient the fuel cell is at converting energy.

[klgraham1013]

Experiments! I'll definitely try this for those long range probes.

[Tex_NL]

If this is worth it eclipses are no longer something to worry about. Going to the outer planets on ion engines will suddenly become a lot easier.

[nholzric]

In the one test of the fuel cell I saw it was soooooo sloooooooow. I don't even see the point (which makes me think I'm missing something). But an ion-powered craft needs a TON of electricity for a short amount of time, not a dribble for a long amount of time. So you're either going to need a ton of fuel cells or a ton of batteries, either way it doesn't sound promising.

Hoping I'm wrong, I'd love to have a fuel cell option. Good thought!

[Radam]

Ion has isp of 4200 vs 800 for a nuke. With fuel cells the isp will be in between somewhere and will still have to bring xenon up from kerbin.

My take, fuel cells for ion crafts wont be worth it. Unless theres a mod that adds electrolysis.

Or whether 400 series batteties will still be massless part...

Edited April 26, 2015 by Radam

[juanml82]

I don't know if it will be worth it. You're carrying the weight of the fuel cell plus the fuel, which is dead weight most of the time. Solar panels and batteries still look like a better option. And how much the weight of the fuel+cell will compare with rtgs?

[Foxster]

In the one test of the fuel cell I saw it was soooooo sloooooooow. I don't even see the point (which makes me think I'm missing something). But an ion-powered craft needs a TON of electricity for a short amount of time, not a dribble for a long amount of time. So you're either going to need a ton of fuel cells or a ton of batteries, either way it doesn't sound promising.

Hoping I'm wrong, I'd love to have a fuel cell option. Good thought!

Yup, I guess it depends if its output is that of one OX-STAT or one Gigantor.

[Scotius]

From what i've seen it's closer to the OX-STAT. But i only saw small fuel cell in action - mind you. I think it's going to plug the hole as an emergency power source, before we get to research RTG's (which are at the very end of tech tree).

[Spartwo]

I was planning to do this just because it makes no sense.

[Foxster]

Or how about this scenario:

You grab a class A. Stick on a drill, fuel cell, fuel-maker. Add some tanks, engines, crew/probe-core and RCS/ASS. Maybe attach a drop ship.

Do you have a rocket with a very, very long range?

[GoSlash27]

Or how about this scenario:

You grab a class A. Stick on a drill, fuel cell, fuel-maker. Add some tanks, engines, crew/probe-core and RCS/ASS. Maybe attach a drop ship.

Do you have a rocket with a very, very long range?

If asteroids have infinite resources, you'd have a ship with infinite fuel. This'd make asteroid redirects a whole lot simpler...

IRT the OP, I can't see how a fuel cell with attendant fuel supply would ever be preferable to solar panels and a battery. solar panels are light and give unlimited electricity.

Best,

-Slashy

Edited April 26, 2015 by GoSlash27

[UnionPacific1983WP]

Fuel cells? Sounds like Apollo to me.

[Wintersdark]

If asteroids have infinite resources, you'd have a ship with infinite fuel. This'd make asteroid redirects a whole lot simpler...

IRT the OP, I can't see how a fuel cell with attendant fuel supply would ever be preferable to solar panels and a battery. solar panels are light and give unlimited electricity.

Best,

-Slashy

Apparently, asteroids lose mass while being mined, so I'd assume not infinite fuel... But a great deal of fuel, very slowly obtained, and a lot of mass to move around.

[theonegalen]

Fuel cells? Sounds like Apollo to me.

And Space Shuttle STS.

[Radam]

Or like newly proposed ULA upper stage, a piston engine with a generator.

[Alshain]

Definitely an interesting idea but I have a feeling the OX-STAT would be cheaper to lift than LFO and would last a lot longer.

[Eric S]

The impression I got from... RoverDude, I think, is that fuel cells are for places that solar panels don't work (farther out in the solar system or on the night side of a moon/planet) prior to having RTGs.

[Hcube]

I heard ion engines got buffed anyway. They won't consume as much power.

[Renegrade]

[Funny thing is here, as mentioned above, fuel cells are common on manned vessels, as they have high power requirements, and also usually provide half of what a fuel cell needs by default (an oxidizer, such as oh, O2). The lack of endurance of a fuel cell compared to a solar-battery system (weeks or small number of months vs. years) isn't a big problem on manned flights as they usually have limited durations.

Stock KSP, at least in 0.90, doesn't have any LS requirements (and I really think the 'probe' logic should be applied to manned craft, ie. the craft doesn't respond if there's no power, even on low difficulty settings), and nothing requires vast power (except for ions), so I'm sorta questioning what the point of the fuel cell is.

My only workable theory is that perhaps the intent is to let you drill on the night side of a planet?

Or how about this scenario:

You grab a class A. Stick on a drill, fuel cell, fuel-maker. Add some tanks, engines, crew/probe-core and RCS/ASS. Maybe attach a drop ship.

Do you have a rocket with a very, very long range?

Only if asteroids have a good fuel mass ratio~

Definitely an interesting idea but I have a feeling the OX-STAT would be cheaper to lift than LFO and would last a lot longer.

Well, if things are unchanged from 0.90, that would still be infinitely better, due to #lolmassless.

I heard ion engines got buffed anyway. They won't consume as much power.

Do you have a source for that? Some people have mentioned it, but I haven't seen anything official (aside from the big tank of course).

Ions taking less power would be rather fail, by the way, as in stock 0.90, they're the ONLY thing that drains any significant amount of power. Even the almighty "heavy drain" science lab can be told to shut up and sit down by using a pair of Z-400s and 2-4 ox-stats.

[nholzric]

My only workable theory is that perhaps the intent is to let you drill on the night side of a planet?

So that's an interesting theory! Someone'll have to test (or calculate if the numbers are given) if you can get ahead by converting fuel to electricity via the fuel cell in order to power a drill and/or ore converter to make fuel. I'll be surprised if that works, but I have no idea - if it does work that'd be kinda cool!

[Red Iron Crown]

I can't see how a fuel cell with attendant fuel supply would ever be preferable to solar panels and a battery. solar panels are light and give unlimited electricity.

Very much this. KSP, at its core, is very much a game about managing mass; to trade massful fuel for massless electricity would seem to be a poor choice is almost every scenario.

[KerikBalm]

Well, the advantage of a fuel cell should be that it stores more energy per unit mass than a battery, at the cost of not being rechargable (or the recharge consists of loading more LFO).

But we have massless batteries.. unless that has changed...

The batteries we have are already sufficient for nighttime operations when in orbit pretty much anywhere...

They might be good for rovers, when combined with ISRU bases... but who wants to go driving at night?

I suppose if you want to explore a permenantly shaded crater near a pole...

[nholzric]

So that's an interesting theory! Someone'll have to test (or calculate if the numbers are given) if you can get ahead by converting fuel to electricity via the fuel cell in order to power a drill and/or ore converter to make fuel. I'll be surprised if that works, but I have no idea - if it does work that'd be kinda cool!

Watching KSPTV: Kerbal 1.0 Academy with DasValdez a few minutes ago, it looked like he could power a converter with a fuel cell and was still gaining LFO. He wasn't drilling at the time. The limiting factor in his particular situation was parts heating up causing them to slow down. So, I'm changing my mind, I'm guessing that powering a drilling operation with fuel cells and coming out ahead will be possible.