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Kerbart

Nay-sayers, unite!

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All you nay sayers are just pissing into the wind.

I don't care if you get wet but you're getting spraying on others as well.

Well said Tex :)

In my oppinion this spoiled whining is not getting us anywhere nor is it respectful of what Squad has achieve in the last years.

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From what I've read here on the forums, I take it "full release" points to the game having reached the point of developement which was their initial goal. It does not imply perfect, it simply means "this is what our goals were back then". Now they have reached those developement milestones, we get a "full release". It opens up for further improvements as they keep setting goals. Perhaps this whole issue is based on different ideas of what a "full release" means.

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All you nay sayers are just pissing into the wind.

I don't care if you get wet but you're getting spraying on others as well.

Or perhaps they're just other players who love the game like you and are concerned at the rush to release when several glaring things are missing from a "release" game, especially when they've stated themselves that some of the things they wanted in aren't in.

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From what I've read here on the forums, I take it "full release" points to the game having reached the point of developement which was their initial goal. It does not imply perfect, it simply means "this is what our goals were back then". Now they have reached those developement milestones, we get a "full release". It opens up for further improvements as they keep setting goals. Perhaps this whole issue is based on different ideas of what a "full release" means.

exactly.

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Or perhaps they're just other players who love the game like you and are concerned at the rush to release when several glaring things are missing from a "release" game, especially when they've stated themselves that some of the things they wanted in aren't in.

still... that doesnt justify to call the devs "a bunch of liars"

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Or perhaps they're just other players who love the game like you and are concerned at the rush to release when several glaring things are missing from a "release" game, especially when they've stated themselves that some of the things they wanted in aren't in.

Of course there are tons of stuff that aren't in the game (yet). Don't you think I still have wishes? But you don't hear me whining as cursing about it constantly. No sane person could expect the game to be finished by now.

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exactly.

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still... that doesnt justify to call the devs "a bunch of liars"

Go on, quote me where I said that.

I said the rush to release despite the Devs saying they haven't included all they wanted/intended is concerning me.

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Of course there are tons of stuff that aren't in the game (yet). Don't you think I still have wishes? But you don't hear me whining as cursing about it constantly. No sane person could expect the game to be finished by now.

So if it's not finished...why change from early access to "release"?

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So if it's not finished...why change from early access to "release"?

What do you consider 'finished'? There are tons of games released all the time (for 60 dollars!) that have things added to them later on, are these games not 'finished' either?

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So if it's not finished...why change from early access to "release"?

The process of developing anything usually starts with a set of goals. To reach those goals you set minor goals. When you reach one of the minor goals, you have the next beta. When you finally reach the original goals, that's when you get a "release". It's really not more than that.

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I think I may have become a naysayer, regrettably.

I think many of us were hoping that 1.0 would bring all the planned features that were listed in the wiki for one thing.

No ÃŽâ€v readouts and no tier 0 buildings make this update seem like every other update so far and not a release.

I would like to know when to expect KSP to be "complete" so I can look forward to future updates as content expansion, rather than fundamental parts of career mode being introduced or completely overhauled. (like tier 0 buildings and tech tree overhauls), breaking my mods in the process.

In short, I have a hard time seeing this update as 1.0.

Because for me so much of the fun of KSP comes from modding, I just want a simple, highly stable and functional build of KSP to be finished, released as "done" and the updates to stop. Every time an update to KSP gets released, a mod somewhere dies and is never updated to work with the new version. It's a real shame.

As it is now, the only new features that KSP 1.0 will bring to the table that haven't been already covered more extensively in mods is:

thumbnails next to the load craft buttons

- clamber

- ablative shader

- female kerbal mesh (but only one texture).

I honestly can't think of any others.

KSP is a great game, but it's features are so outstripped by its mods that I wish it would take a bow and let the community take over at this point.

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especially when they've stated themselves that some of the things they wanted in aren't in.

There is a difference between the game including all the goals they had originally set out to achieve (it apparently does) or a game that includes every conceivable thing that the developers might want to include. Based on that metric, games like Minecraft or World of Warcraft (or pretty much any game with a DLC) is not actually 1.0 worthy b/c it was released with content that the developers want in but isn't in yet.

Also, what random player X might think is a "complete" game is not necessarily what the developers think is a complete game - or other players for that matter. There may be people who think KSP shouldn't go 1.0 until we get life support, 15 more planets, and other solar systems. And that list is probably for just about any different player. The point is, there is no real "correct" feature list for a "complete" game.

I think I may have become a naysayer, regrettably.

I think many of us were hoping that 1.0 would bring all the planned features that were listed in the wiki for one thing.

No ÃŽâ€v readouts and no tier 0 buildings make this update seem like every other update so far and not a release.

The list on the wiki was, and always has been, an unofficial list curated from comments made by people at squad in the past - many of which who no longer work there - as things that they might consider doing at some point in development.

Squad never really released an "official" list for the very reason that they didn't want to promise something that they couldn't deliver on in the end.

Edited by FleetAdmiralJ

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Can we at least wait until we have the actual game in hand before we start telling Squad how terrible it is?

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If only it were that easy.

I know. But someone doesn't want his special Monday. In all seriousness, THEY decide when the game is scope-complete, and YOU play it. What's the point on disagreeing NOW. They probably took into account any "bad" (assuming there will be one) publicity from negative reviews. You (the naysayers) got your .99 beta to play. Treat it as one then and stop whining. I mean.... COME on. I joined (5 posts ago) because of the awesome community. And you are finding the time to ..... about the release is now?

DISCLAIMER: None of the above is personalised. It's supposed to be directed generally. Thank you in advance, With regards, Eilifein.

P.S.: Enjoy the release. No point in anything else.

P.S.2: @stibbons /thread now easier?

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Only once a game is fully released as 1.0 and hundreds and thousands of people install it and play it on extremly diverse hardware/OS/driver combinations can you truly discover just how many bugs are still left in the game. Bugs no dev team could hope to squash before release even if they took a year to bug test it.

Squad has a good track record of fixing bugs and supporting KSP and i'm pretty sure they were aware that 1.0 would be a difficult release.

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Can we at least wait until we have the actual game in hand before we start telling Squad how terrible it is?

I guess not. and I'm amazed at some of the reaching being done in this thread considering a lot of the things they demanded-or-else-this-game-is-horrible were actually implemented. I guess it just goes to show that if people want to complain, they will find something to complain about.

My favorite is the "there are things they want to still add, therefore it is not 1.0!" argument.

Please, show me a recent game release where a game was released gold with 1) no post-release bug-fix and/or 2) no post-release DLC or content update.

I'm sure they might be able to dig up some example. But I mean, c'mon, really?

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Only once a game is fully released as 1.0 and hundreds and thousands of people install it and play it on extremly diverse hardware/OS/driver combinations can you truly discover just how many bugs are still left in the game. Bugs no dev team could hope to squash before release even if they took a year to bug test it.

Which is why they should have released it as a 0.95 version. Fix the stuff that needs to be fixed (Manley and Valdez ran into a few after only a couple of hours of play, imagine would thousands of players will do) and THEN release 1.0 as a much more stable version. That's been the whole point of the complaints of going to 1.0 and introducing so many new things without playtesting in the first place.

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Which is why they should have released it as a 0.95 version. Fix the stuff that needs to be fixed (Manley and Valdez ran into a few after only a couple of hours of play, imagine would thousands of players will do) and THEN release 1.0 as a much more stable version. That's been the whole point of the complaints of going to 1.0 and introducing so many new things without playtesting in the first place.

They already fixed some of the bugs that were found.

For example: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/116650-Scott-Manley-s-1-0-Rocket-Powered-Surfboard-(Airboard-)?p=1862132&viewfull=1#post1862132

Edited by MalfunctionM1Ke

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I will have fun with the release client, and as long as squad is hurrying up fixing the bugs, i'm fine with a buggy client.

But, that being said: this is because i think KSP is one of the very, VERY few gems of the concept of early access. They got some credit in my book, that's why. To argue "when was the last time you got a perfect release".. uhm, what? It's absolutely stupid to argue "well, EA and other cashgrabbers throw crap into the market, so it's fine for others too - that's just how it is". No it's not how it is. It is what it has become, and that is partially because people use that one single silly argument over and over again.

Maybe it's my age, but i certainly remember better times regarding this pest (buggy clients, cashgrabs).

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What a negative thread.

These are all valid points, but do we have to be so critical? Bugs happen. SQUAD tried their best. And I think we've already done a perfectly good job getting the message across that we think they went too fast. The time for that has passed; now is the time to be supportive and congratulate them for making it to release.

Being critical can be extremely useful and get the best product you can get.

5 critical people posting on a forum can do better for a game than a million sycophantic fan boys.

Critical does not mean you hate something just want to see it get better.

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(Edit: a bit late so to the post above about calling it 0.95) Then I doubt (considering the time it would take even for a large gaming crowd to identify all the bugs and for the devs to fix it all) we would see a v1 this year, perhaps in 2017? 2018? By then chances are the OS's we run would be outdated, the hardware would have evolved to allow for even more we would want etc etc. At some point one has to say "ok this is good enough, let the rest come later".

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I know. But someone doesn't want his special Monday. In all seriousness, THEY decide when the game is scope-complete, and YOU play it. What's the point on disagreeing NOW. They probably took into account any "bad" (assuming there will be one) publicity from negative reviews. You (the naysayers) got your .99 beta to play. Treat it as one then and stop whining. I mean.... COME on. I joined (5 posts ago) because of the awesome community. And you are finding the time to ..... about the release is now?

DISCLAIMER: None of the above is personalised. It's supposed to be directed generally. Thank you in advance, With regards, Eilifein.

P.S.: Enjoy the release. No point in anything else.

P.S.2: @stibbons /thread now easier?

I know exactly what you mean, Eili but you cant surpress free speech no matter what it is. :)

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I will have fun with the release client, and as long as squad is hurrying up fixing the bugs, i'm fine with a buggy client.

Finally, someone who feels like I do. Probably more out there :)

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